Are these numbers for real?

[newapti5]

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.envres.2022.115165

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/17/health/freshwater-fish-pfas-contamination-wellness
 

These number are very concerning. I've been eating some wild caught walleyes, and our PA fish & boat commission says eating a couple per month would be OK.  

[gim]

You can blame 3M and DuPont for dumping those forever chemicals into the environment. They are commonly used to make heat and water resistant items like Teflon cookware, gore Tex, and scotch guard. Both of these companies have tried to buy their way out of lawsuits with massive settlements.

[MN Fisher]

2 minutes ago, gimruis said:

You can blame 3M and DuPont for dumping those forever chemicals into the environment. They are commonly used to make heat and water resistant items like Teflon cookware, gore Tex, and scotch guard. Both of these companies have tried to buy their way out of lawsuits with massive settlements.

Worst part - for some reason the PFAS builds up in the sunfish family (bluegill, crappie, black bass) more so than others.

Pg 13-14 - https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/fish/docs/consortium/bestpracticepfos.pdf

[Bird]

Same thing around here, signs posted on all rivers..,.... DuPont.

 

[casts_by_fly]

30 minutes ago, newapti5 said:

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.envres.2022.115165

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/17/health/freshwater-fish-pfas-contamination-wellness
 

These number are very concerning. I've been eating some wild caught walleyes, and our PA fish & boat commission says eating a couple per month would be OK.  

PFAS are not tested for by the f&bc last I knew.  They test mercury, lead, pcbs and some others. 
 

and yes, the numbers will be right. PFAS have been used for a long time now and they don’t break down. The do accumulate though. One game fish eats a whole lot of bait fish that ate a whole lot more plankton, which ate a whole lot more greens and algae where the PFAS deposited. Bio accumulation at its best. 

[newapti5]

6 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

PFAS are not tested for by the f&bc last I knew.  They test mercury, lead, pcbs and some others. 
 

and yes, the numbers will be right. PFAS have been used for a long time now and they don’t break down. The do accumulate though. One game fish eats a whole lot of bait fish that ate a whole lot more plankton, which ate a whole lot more greens and algae where the PFAS deposited. Bio accumulation at its best. 

 

I guess any wild-caught freshwater fish will be off the menu from now on. I wonder what level of PFAS saltwater fish and supermarket fish have.

[gim]

13 minutes ago, Bird said:

Same thing around here, signs posted on all rivers..,.... DuPont.

 

I saw a documentary about the DuPont plant in Parkersburg, WV. The plant there made Teflon for cookware with PFOA and they contaminated the main water supply which resulted in all kinds of unhealthy side effects. A class action lawsuit was settled, and they eventually sold to a company called Chemours. In 2017 they agreed to pay out a whopping $671 million settlement to plaintiffs affected by this chemical.

 

Really would not surprise me if most of us have traces of these forever chemicals in our bodies.

[WRB]

Key words CNN and US Environmental Protection Agency.

If you cook using non stick pans you gonna die, cast iron only! Guess what you are gonna die anyway by trying to live on this planet that produces 80-90% of pollution.

Eat fresh fish it’s a good food source.

Tom

[Mobasser]

I love fish, and have eaten it all my life. Several species from rivers, lakes and ponds. Now I'm 65. Will I continue to eat fish? Yes. I'll also continue to eat bacon and eggs too. I've read the warnings. Just eat these things in moderation. You'll survive.

2 minutes ago, WRB said:

Key words CNN and US Environmental Protection Agency.

If you cook using non stick pans you gonna die, cast iron only! Guess what you are gonna die anyway by trying to live on this planet that produces 80-90% of pollution.

Eat fresh fish it’s a good food source.

Tom

I agree with Tom. Use cast iron pans to cook with. Teflon is bad news.

[gim]

6 minutes ago, Mobasser said:

Use cast iron pans to cook with. Teflon is bad news.

Lol it’s not the Teflon in cookware that is getting into your body. It’s the companies making these products, releasing chemicals into the environment like our lakes, rivers, and ground water supply. Eventually it then ends up in the food chain, the fish you catch, and the fish you eat.

 

Once these forever chemicals are in the environment, they never go away.

[Mobasser]

Just now, gimruis said:

Lol it’s not the Teflon in cookware that is getting into your body. It’s the companies making these products, releasing it into the environment like our lakes, rivers, and ground water supply. Eventually it then ends up in the food chain, the fish you catch, and the fish you eat.

I understand this. But I'm Bull headed. I like my fish. Hell with these companies. They've been doing this crap forever. I don't like it either...

[gim]

Just now, Mobasser said:

I understand this. But I'm Bull headed. I like my fish. Hell with these companies. They've been doing this crap forever. I don't like it either...

I hear ya. The sad thing is that companies like 3M and DuPont knew they were doing this, and still did it because disposing of it properly was an arduous, expensive undertaking. That doesn’t help their profits, which they value above everything else.

[Mobasser]

Just now, gimruis said:

I hear ya. The sad thing is that companies like 3M and DuPont knew they were doing this, and still did it because disposing of it properly was an arduous, expensive undertaking. That doesn’t help their profits, which they value above everything else.

They've been paying people off for years. And polluting waters in the process.

[gim]

1 minute ago, Mobasser said:

They've been paying people off for years. And polluting waters in the process.

3M is a Minnesota based company here not far from me. In 2018 they settled a $850 million settlement with the state for contaminating water and natural resources here with PFAS, the primary chemical used in Scotchguard.

[newapti5]

6 minutes ago, gimruis said:

I hear ya. The sad thing is that companies like 3M and DuPont knew they were doing this, and still did it because disposing of it properly was an arduous, expensive undertaking. That doesn’t help their profits, which they value above everything else.

 

The data used in the paper is from 2013-15. God knows what level it has reached today. 

[WRB]

DuPont, GE plastics, 3M haven’t mfr’s PFA products for the past 20 years. Nearly all mfg is now moved to Brazil and Eastern Europe. 

You all like Fluorocarbon fishing line, don’t touch it.

Tom

[gim]

1 minute ago, newapti5 said:

 

The data used in the paper is from 2013-15. God knows what level it has reached today. 

Well the levels certainly haven’t gone down yet, given that they take like 200 years to start dissipating in the environment. The good news is that they are cracking down on the use of these chemicals, so any company still using them is required to dispose of them properly now.

1 minute ago, WRB said:

3M haven’t mfr’s PFA products for the past 20 years

That is not true. 3M’s settlement in 2018 is from PFAS released into the environment from a manufacturing plant here in 2010 where they were making scotchguard. That’s 13 years ago.

[Susky River Rat]

1 hour ago, newapti5 said:

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.envres.2022.115165

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/17/health/freshwater-fish-pfas-contamination-wellness
 

These number are very concerning. I've been eating some wild caught walleyes, and our PA fish & boat commission says eating a couple per month would be OK.  

Section 3 and 4 of the susky is stocked. There isn’t enough natural reproduction there. Even trout from the hatchery are tested for mercury lead pcbs and you should only eat so many per month. Human waste is the biggest issue with the susky in the Harrisburg area not the stuff mentioned in that article. 
 

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2021/11/fecal-bacteria-contamination-of-susquehanna-river-is-getting-worse.html?outputType=amp

[newapti5]

48 minutes ago, Darnold335 said:

Section 3 and 4 of the susky is stocked. There isn’t enough natural reproduction there. Even trout from the hatchery are tested for mercury lead pcbs and you should only eat so many per month. Human waste is the biggest issue with the susky in the Harrisburg area not the stuff mentioned in that article. 
 

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2021/11/fecal-bacteria-contamination-of-susquehanna-river-is-getting-worse.html?outputType=amp

 

Yes that's another problem that I've read about. The good news is this year the city of Harrisburg is finally trying to address this sewage problem. Not sure how much it'll help though.  

[Susky River Rat]

5 minutes ago, newapti5 said:

 

Yes that's another problem that I've read about. The good news is this year the city of Harrisburg is finally trying to address this sewage problem. Not sure how much it'll help though.  

Everything is outdated. It’s going to cost millions. It is very gross to think about and why I personally would not keep any fish south of sunbury. 

[WRB]

Off topic but thought I share my background as a aerospace engineer. The company I was Director of Engineering for going on 45 years before retiring is a mfr of parts made primarily from aluminum alloys followed by composites materials. As a result very familiar with materials and processes. Chaired SAE committees and several patents.

I say this to for some credibility.

We had a plating facility that had to meet Cal OSHA regulations along with all the mfg regulations.

GE, 3M and DuPont were all material suppliers we used in mfg our products including Telflon. The waste products never exceeded drinking water regulations for California’s stringent levels.

Easy to point at mfr’s for pollution and some are guilty but not all.

We have close friends in NorCal who are 4th generation farmers. I add this to show how our government regulations are ruining this country.

2018 the family farmers had to drill 150’ deeper wells at a cost of 350K for 5 wells. The following year the State outlawed diesel well pumps and required the pumps to electric motors, they complied. 2020 the monthly cost to run the electric pumps after installing wiring was $4,500 a month. 2021 The PG&E designed a solar panel array that required removing a walnut orchard. The solar system worked to lower the cost during pumping but... the local power lines couldn't handle the excess power being generated to pay back the solar cost. The rural community can’t afford to upgrade the power lines.

To this day the 4th generation farmer family is loosing money and maybe forced to sell as they are no longer profitable.

Beware this will be repeated across rural America.

Apologize for the rant, eat fish you catch unless the waterway is posted against it,

Peace,

Tom

[PressuredFishing]

I don't know about FW, but here in SOCAL SD Bay is heavily heavily contaminated from the millitary... I won't eat anything out of the bays, or when water flows out of TJ poo poo river after rains...

 

Some of socal reservoirs have studies showing some level of contamination, but to be blunt, you eating doritos is most likely worse than eating a small fillet of crappie

[T-Billy]

Gotta die of something, may as well be yummy fish fillets. 

[Kelvin]

Take some preventative measures.  PFAS and PFOS are stored in the liver but not excreted so readily.  The associations are similar to BPAs and such are linked to metabolic disease, endocrine and heptatic dysfunction.  In terms of toxicity they tend to use a bile sequestrant in cholestyramine to bind bile in the intestines in order to prevent reabsorption thereby increasing elimination.  4 year half life and if you are thinking of having children it does cross the placenta and could cause issues to the fetus. 

 

In a nutshell take nac and glycine together along with a few other minerals and hepatic protective herbs to help prevent liver cell damage and reabsorption.  Bile salts are critical too in this process but I cannot comment until I've done more research on it. 

 

<---Holistic healer by trade.

[dodgeguy]

I thought toxins were in the fatty organs and tissues and not the meat