The True Cast: Is fly-fishing an “elitist” pursuit?

[gim]

1 minute ago, Further North said:

I think if we look at the progression from long (or recurve) bows for archery, to compound bows, to crossbows, what we see is a a lessening of the skills needed to make the shot...and some people don't like that because they feel it diminishes the sport...and they struggle with the part where it encourages more people to get out in the woods and participate.

Absolutely.  Crossbows are a lot more like short range guns than they are like a bow.  Put the scope on the target and pull the trigger.  No practice required.

 

The MN Deer Hunters Association has a lot of lobbying power here, and until they endorse, it won't pass.  Doesn't really surprise me that MN hasn't legalized it yet though.  Minnesota is often late to change these kinds of laws compared to other states.  The same comparison could be made for opening a full year catch and release bass season, like Wisconsin recently did.

 

When Wisconsin legalized crossbows during archery season, it added a significant amount of hunters during archery season because a fair amount of gun-only hunters started participating.  That is a lot of added revenue from new license sales, and associated sales of new crossbows to private industry (which are not cheap).  So the state itself may not be totally against it, if it adds new participation and generates new revenue.

[Deleted account]

38 minutes ago, Further North said:

 

I think if we look at the progression from long (or recurve) bows for archery, to compound bows, to crossbows, what we see is a a lessening of the skills needed to make the shot...and some people don't like that because they feel it diminishes the sport...and they struggle with the part where it encourages more people to get out in the woods and participate.

I can see both sides, but will side with the latter every time.  Hunting, fishing, or whatever.  The benefit to increasing outdoor participation exceeds purist's desire to keep things the same, every time, on balance.

I'm sure we can come up with an example or three where increased participation has had a negative impact...but that's not the point.  Benefit, on balance, is the point.

Great, now we're gonna see Bulldog dressed like Robin Hood and his pristine vintage long bow collection...  

[BrianMDTX]

32 minutes ago, Further North said:

 

I think if we look at the progression from long (or recurve) bows for archery, to compound bows, to crossbows, what we see is a a lessening of the skills needed to make the shot...and some people don't like that because they feel it diminishes the sport...and they struggle with the part where it encourages more people to get out in the woods and participate.

I can see both sides, but will side with the latter every time.  Hunting, fishing, or whatever.  The benefit to increasing outdoor participation exceeds purist's desire to keep things the same, every time, on balance.

I'm sure we can come up with an example or three where increased participation has had a negative impact...but that's not the point.  Benefit, on balance, is the point.

When I was a boy (born in Baltimore in 1960), there wasn’t a whitetail within 17 miles of my house. And when I saw my first one in the wild (while fishing at Loch Raven reservoir north of the city) at 17, it was an eye-opener. Back then, it was recurve/longbow-only, and muzzleloader season was primitive arms (flintlocks or percussion cap, open sight only, etc.). But suburban sprawl (with mandated open green spaces) and changes in farming (mostly corn and especially soybeans) caused the deer population to explode. What was once one buck per season (and a doe tag if you were lucky enough to get drawn) morphed into 6 bucks per season and unlimited does (in archery season) in some counties. Compound bows became dominant, even though they were once looked down upon by the stick-and-string hunters. And crossbows were available to those with disabilities. But as populations grew, crossbows became legal during archery. And OMG was the hue and cry from vertical bowhunters loud and vitriolic. And yet it has made little difference. 
 

Live and let live, I say. Elitism is a fancy way of saying “I got something and I don’t want to share it.” 

[Further North]

14 minutes ago, BrianMDTX said:

Live and let live, I say. Elitism is a fancy way of saying “I got something and I don’t want to share it.” 

It is, and it's unfortunate.

[TOXIC]

I used to guide flyfishermen on backwoods logging roads to remote fly streams to catch minnow sized native trout on hair strength line.  Due to my advanced age and experience I can tell you that in the old days you could hand a bass fisherman a fly rod and they wouldn’t be able to get the fly much past the end of the rod.  Nowadays you could hand a flyfisherman a baitcaster and you would get the same result.  It’s not about elitism as much as it used to be about cost and a different skill set.  Flyfishermen were paying outrageous money for fly outfits when bass gear was cheap.  Bass fishing has more than caught up in both categories.  Likewise, not all fly fishing is the same.  Guys fly fishing for trout are not the same ones fishing Marlin or bonefish, nothing is the same from gear to technique.  I have trout fished with 3wt fly rods and I’ve striper fished with 9wt the 2 have very little in common.  I got to meet Lefty Kreh and have him critique my casting and lucky enough to have Harry Murray’s fly shop fairly close by. But in my opinion flyfishing and traditional bass fishing don’t compete with each other.  The only thing they have in common is the target species.  Technique skill and cost are more than equal for gear if you don’t add in the price of boats and trucks. There isn’t a single thing either one does that the other doesn’t from gear to special clothing to lures/flys etc.  The general public will never get past the idea that bass fishing is a bubba sport but we all know that’s not true.  

[bulldog1935]

I've been on the board of GRTU since the late 90s. 

I run Trout in the Classroom for Texas.  40 schools. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In HS Aquatic Science classes, it's the teachers who have all the fun. 

 

 

Me, Frank Smethurst and Jimbo, after 3 days filming TU On the Rise in the Guadalupe tailwater

What makes these 3 guys infectious, add Gary Borger, Kevin Townsend, Alvin Deaudeaux, et.al. - when you stick a fly rod in their hands, they turn into kids. 

That Trout in the Classroom thing - it's not about raising trout - it's so we'll have someone to step up on our soapbox when we fall off.  An investment in the future, and probably a better legacy than posting silly comments on the internet. 

I've seen more reverse elitism - people who treat you bad because you're doing something different from them.  Even among fly fishers - others too often don't like the cane rod (once is too often). 

[bulldog1935]

Ambassador on the River

Things are ramping up at work tomorrow.  But I took a hookie day today.
My brain was single purpose and its only goal was to get to Mad Rock.
When I hiked down to my crossing point, I was going to have to cross where a guy was fishing (he was doing everything wrong).
When I got his attention, he was gracious, so when I reached the middle of the river with him, asked if he wanted to come down with me, and of course introduced myself to Joe.

After our hike, he started at the tailout above, and I went straight to my favorite pocket water - the air was thick with BWOs.  After 20 minutes of quiet, I caught a fish, then four immediate strikes, then they shut down - they were feeding on cycle, as pressured fish do.

I went up halfway and waved Joe down the rest. We went over his rig, and I showed him how to rig up a dropper and pick the right dropper fly from his box.
We talked about BWOs, their behavior when they hatch, and why the riffle produced them.
I put him on the first pocket water and I went down to fish just below Mad Rock.
In no time at all, Joe was hooked up.

in the net

happy Joe

happy fish, though, Joe had to think about this part - it first didn't fit with his nature, but then he thought better of it, and we were both happy when the buck swam off.
The buck, btw, was milting the whole time we were handling him.

I went on down river to fish below the next bridge, telling Joe what I was going to do and inviting him down if he wanted.  I saw our buck's redds in the riffle and caught fish in the next run - stubby, fat fish, but not really photogenic.

When I came back up, Joe was still pounding the same spot. It was time for both of us to head back.  We talked about GRTU and lease access - of course, I told him all about Jimbo.  I think Joe is going to join GRTU - it is, after all, the best deal in fishing.  And you never know, Joe may become a conservationist.

(posted 2/11/2015)

[TnRiver46]

I get called a worm dunker bait drowner at TU meetings haha. Some silly comments aren’t just on the internet….

[bulldog1935]

@TnRiver46 Back when people had only one rod, they used it for everything. 

Theodore Gordon dunked worms. 

He may have also had thicker skin. 

[TnRiver46]

1 minute ago, bulldog1935 said:

@TnRiver46 Back when people had only one rod, they used it for everything. 

Theodore Gordon dunked worms. 

Don’t I know it, their elitist remarks just inspire me to dunk more worms 

[bulldog1935]

Us Four and No More applies to TU chapters as well as internet bulletin boards. 

 

GRTU is the single largest business unit in TU, with 10,000 members. 

I have TIC helpers who don't even fish, just like taking trout eggs to the classroom, and coming back when the kids release their fry into the tailwater at the end of the school year. 

 

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, bulldog1935 said:

Us Four and No More applies to TU chapters as well as internet bulletin boards. 

 

GRTU is the single largest business unit in TU, with 10,000 members. 

I have TIC helpers who don't even fish, just like taking trout eggs to the classroom, and coming back when the kids release their fry into the tailwater at the end of the school year. 

 

A friend I used to work with as a fly guide is now a high school teacher and does trout in his classroom . His young son has apparently been drinking out his trout aquarium at home haha

[bulldog1935]

@TnRiver46 58 degrees - it's cool. 

[DitchPanda]

 One of my best buddies is a big time fly fisherman...he's on the board for one of our local outdoor magazines plus he organizes several fly fishing meetings and seminars every spring and summer. I have always been a conventional gear guy and have fly fished maybe a dozen times in my life. There is no bashing from either side relating to gear...just friendly ribbing about getting out fished as buddies do.

 Around here the only elitists are the walleye crowds...they sit in their ivory towers and look down there noses at us scrub peasants chasing bass and panfish. Get them out of their trolling comfort zone and they can't find their own a#$ with two hands and a flashlight.

 

[garroyo130]

@bulldog1935 this GRTU thing seems interesting. I was reading up on the leases. Might be something worth considering, thanks for sharing. 

[Susky River Rat]

On 1/14/2023 at 12:29 PM, Further North said:

I've a seen the same behavior from what I call "species snobs" - the folks who thing the the fish they focus all their energy on is better than all the other fish out there for some obscure self justified reasons.

I was this guy. I think a lot of it comes from “you catch my fish by accident and think it’s an accomplishment”. Which I don’t snob fishermen anymore but, I don’t want to catchy musky while bass fishing. I don’t want to catch catfish while musky fishing etc. I want to catch what I am targeting at that time. 
 

I am at the point as long as you are fishing cleanly, ethically and legally have at it!

 

fly fishing and tying is a true art. It’s not something I am interested in doing but have the most respect for people who do it well.

[gim]

On 1/19/2023 at 12:08 PM, DitchPanda said:

Around here the only elitists are the walleye crowds...they sit in their ivory towers and look down there noses at us scrub peasants chasing bass and panfish. Get them out of their trolling comfort zone and they can't find their own a#$ with two hands and a flashlight.

Lol you should come up here where the sacred walleye is the state fish.  There's big statues of them on several different lakes and people bow to them before they take photos.

 

The ironic part of that is that 98% of them are kept when they are caught too.  God forbid they should not use any live bait...

[bulldog1935]

What happens way before 50 years of fly fishing, you tie fewer and fewer fly patterns in each niche and, of course, catch more and more fish on them.  I tie/fish 4 patterns in coldwater, 2 in warm water, and 3 in the salt.  

Though some of the older stuff I made the effort to tie have great fish stories.  

[redmeansdistortion]

A good friend and frequent fishing partner of mine chairs the local TU chapter.  Mark is a heck of a guy and we began when he started picking my brain about BFS a few years back.  He lurks on a local forum I moderate and registered just to ask me questions, which lead to me building out a couple of his 2500Cs and doing a presentation for the TU chapter on BFS.  Building his out are what led me to pursue my own small Ambassadeurs.  Mark is a long time reel collector like @bulldog1935 and has amassed a collection of highly desirable reels, whether fly, baitcast, or spinning.  He's not an eBay shopper, but instead accumulates his the old fashioned way; scoring deals at flea markets, garage sales, and estate sales for seemingly cents on the dollar compared to what others pay in online transactions.

 

Anyway, during my presentation I met a lot of great people.  Mostly fly fishermen but also a fair amount that used spinning gear and not a hint of snobbery from either camp.  Most seemed very interested in what I had to show and talk about, some have even taken to it.  Mark doesn't swing flies like he used to now that he's into BFS, but I never got a snobby impression from him either.  He lives a few miles up the road from me and during the cold weather he and I attend tackle shows and go rod and reel hunting in the flea markets.  At times I feel people get the impression fly fishermen are elitists because many of them spend 4 figures on bench made rods and reels.  Most of these guys are people of modest income like many of us, and like us they have that one hobby they splurge on which is fishing.  How they do it is all on them.

[bulldog1935]

On 1/31/2023 at 5:34 PM, garroyo130 said:

@bulldog1935 this GRTU thing seems interesting. I was reading up on the leases. Might be something worth considering, thanks for sharing. 

TroutFest is coming up Feb 18 - the expo is always a good introduction, and the only thing that costs is Friday night's banquet, which is probably already sold out.    

If you read my Joe story above, I saw him again at the following TroutFest, and he was plugging in.  

I won't be there this time, though, it's our New Moon at Arroyo in the TX Tropics.  

 

Mushroom Rocks

we love our place-names in the Guadalupe tailwater (Mystery Pool, Redhorse Run...).  Also, you can aim your camera into the sun 200 times and not get a photo like this.