Various bass and bass subspecies. do they live in harmony, or mess with each other?

[Darth-Baiter]

I have a few lakes with Spotted bass, Small mouth bass and Largemouth bass.  I'm not a good enough fisherman to note if one type is dominating the population.  

 

is one a better survivor that the others?  one that will eventually over take the lake?

[flyfisher]

Here is VA there are Alabama Spotted bass being moved around and there is a fear of them taking over.  
https://dwr.virginia.gov/wildlife/fish/alabama-bass/

 

So i would guess they would be the one to survive best as they can apparently hybridize with the others.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

Alabama Bass will out compete everything but Largemouth.   Will hybridize with many of the sub species including the SM.  

 

I introduced Alabama Bass to a LGM only 150+ acre lake 25years ago, the lake today produces more big LGM than before they were put in.    This defies what much of the science suggests.   Every lake is a story onto itself based on my own firsthand experience stocking a sub species.    

 

When I first put them in, the first couple of years we were catching 5lb+ very often, however 25 years later, my biggest has been 4lbs on the dot after extensive fishing.  

[flyfisher]

7 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

Alabama Bass will out compete everything but Largemouth.   Will hybridize with many of the sub species including the SM.  

 

I introduced Alabama Bass to a LGM only 150+ acre lake 25years ago, the lake today produces more big LGM than before they were put in.    This defies what much of the science suggests.   Every lake is a story onto itself based on my own firsthand experience stocking a sub species.    

 

When I first put them in, the first couple of years we were catching 5lb+ very often, however 25 years later, my biggest has been 4lbs on the dot after extensive fishing.  

Anecdotal data is not contradictory to the science as it is a one off situation.  

[AlabamaSpothunter]

24 minutes ago, flyfisher said:

Anecdotal data is not contradictory to the science as it is a one off situation.  

In my short time here I've had people on this forum tell me the Alabama Bass is invasive in the Coosa chain of lakes.....the literal place they are native too.   They are the boogeyman to many on this forum, I get it.....you don't want them to mess with your SM fisheries.    They belong where I live, it's not a one off thing, they are native to my backyard and the surrounding several hundred miles of rivers and lakes.   

 

VA state using a couple of lakes is no different than me sharing my experience or my "anecdotal data".

 

Invasive to VA, isn't invasive to AL.   

[WRB]

Black bass species can intergrade not hybridize, hybrids can’t reproduce.

Lake Perris in SoCal produced the 1st world record Spotted Bass caught in California. What happened to Lake Perris Spotted bass population? They are gone today and only Florida strain LMB exist in Perris now.

Copper Nose Bluegill from Florida and Redear Sunfish (Shell Crackers) were stocked into Perris and decimated the Spotted Bass spawn.

Florida LMB displace Northern LMB by intergrading F1, F3 etc. in nearly every California lakes, no pure FLMB exists.

Smallmouth bass population in Lake Shasta in NorCal was robust a decade ago, now displaced by Spotted Bass.

The big battles appear to be between Spotted bass and Smallmouth bass who dominates the lakes population.

Shasta has always had a good LMB population that continues to be abundant.

I don’t believe a particular Black Bass species can over take another without additional species that prey on the spawn will dominate a particular lake,

Tom

[gim]

It is my worst nightmare that the evil, ugly, unwanted Rock Bass will take over every bass fishery and become the dominant species. Nothing but Rockies. Hordes of them that are infected with disease and have virtually no value as a sport or consumption fish. Pray that day never comes.

 

[TnRiver46]

All the bass species live in happy harmony here 

[WRB]

Rock Bass are not part of the Black Bass family.

known as Goggle Eyes in the South and non existent in the west of the Rockies. 

Tom

 

[MN Fisher]

13 minutes ago, gimruis said:

evil, ugly, unwanted Rock Bass

 

13 minutes ago, gimruis said:

virtually no value as a sport or consumption fish.

 

I actually like rock bass for the freezer - goes with the crappie and plate-size bluegills.

[Woody B]

I've heard of small mouth, spotted bass hybrids but can't confirm. (google meanmouth bass)  However, in 2012 what was thought to be a new state record spotted bass turned out to be a spotted bass/largemouth hybrid.   This was confirmed by biologist.  link to article       I know that laboratory hybrids, like Bodie bass (wipers) and Tiger Musky can't reproduce.  I wonder if these "natural" hybrids can reproduce.   If they can't I have no doubt that would eventually ruin a fishery if constant stocking wasn't maintained.   

 

Here's a snippet from the article.  

Quote

Trivette caught the fish on a Rapala DT-6 crankbait. He contacted Commission staff for a verification of the species. Kin Hodges and Brian McRae, biologists with the Commission’s Division of Inland Fisheries, met with Trivette on Feb. 12 and 13. After careful inspection of the fish, both biologists determined that most of the fish’s characteristics were consistent with a hybrid between a largemouth bass and a spotted bass — an increasingly common occurrence, particularly in larger reservoirs where spotted bass have been introduced.

 

 

 

Added:  I'm sure many things affect bass fishing.  When I had my other boat (30 + years ago) there were no spotted bass.   5 pound Largemouth were an everyday thing and you'd hear of a DD at least once a month.   I haven't heard of a DD in any of the Catawba river lakes this year.   

[TnRiver46]

3 hours ago, Woody B said:

I've heard of small mouth, spotted bass hybrids but can't confirm. (google meanmouth bass)  However, in 2012 what was thought to be a new state record spotted bass turned out to be a spotted bass/largemouth hybrid.   This was confirmed by biologist.  link to article       I know that laboratory hybrids, like Bodie bass (wipers) and Tiger Musky can't reproduce.  I wonder if these "natural" hybrids can reproduce.   If they can't I have no doubt that would eventually ruin a fishery if constant stocking wasn't maintained.   

 

Here's a snippet from the article.  

 

 

 

Added:  I'm sure many things affect bass fishing.  When I had my other boat (30 + years ago) there were no spotted bass.   5 pound Largemouth were an everyday thing and you'd hear of a DD at least once a month.   I haven't heard of a DD in any of the Catawba river lakes this year.   

I catch the spotted/smallie hybrids regularly, got one Saturday 

[Team9nine]

14 hours ago, WRB said:

Black bass species can intergrade not hybridize, hybrids can’t reproduce.

They can do/be both, can they not? A FLxNorthern LMB cross would be an example of intergrade, and a Spotted x Smallmouth cross (which occurs naturally in places) would be a hybrid. Hybrids can then reproduce with their parent lineage by backcrossing. Numerous examples of this in the literature.
 

4 hours ago, Woody B said:

I know that laboratory hybrids, like Bodie bass (wipers) and Tiger Musky can't reproduce.

Turns out wipers aren’t sterile and can backcross with parental lineage. Here in Indiana, the DNR stopped all wiper stockings in the state into locations with naturally reproducing white bass populations to avoid possible gene dilution once this was documented.

[Buzzbaiter]

There are many instances of smallmouth overtaking shoal bass in the southeast. Same with smallmouth and Guadalupes in Texas. Largemouth have a tendency to dominate smallmouth in stillwater environments. Here in MD we have a lot of lakes with smallmouth in them, but very few smallmouth dominant lakes. Add any bit of current, however, and the smallmouth get the upper hand. 

 

On 1/8/2023 at 7:44 PM, AlabamaSpothunter said:

I introduced Alabama Bass to a LGM only 150+ acre lake 25years ago, the lake today produces more big LGM than before they were put in.    This defies what much of the science suggests. 

 

Even if you have a decent idea of what you think will happen, it’s probably best not to play bucket biologist.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

4 hours ago, Buzzbaiter said:

There are many instances of smallmouth overtaking shoal bass in the southeast. Same with smallmouth and Guadalupes in Texas. Largemouth have a tendency to dominate smallmouth in stillwater environments. Here in MD we have a lot of lakes with smallmouth in them, but very few smallmouth dominant lakes. Add any bit of current, however, and the smallmouth get the upper hand. 

 

 

Even if you have a decent idea of what you think will happen, it’s probably best not to play bucket biologist.

Agree 1000%.   I was a young foolish teenager that had the Cahaba River less than 50yds away from the lake's dam, many were just ran back across the dam and dropped into the lake.   My fishing mentor and I would catch some at the big lakes and bring them home in live wells.   

 

All this stuff is majorly taboo now, however when I stocked these Spotted Bass, the Alabama Bass didn't even exist in academic/scientific world.   This wasn't taboo 25 years ago.  

 

I don't think even biologists have a great idea of what's going on considering lakes are constantly going through ebbs and flows, booms and busts.   Shock fishing only captures a fraction of what's going on, and most times the biggest fish that are deep aren't shocked up.   I have no doubts Alabama Bass have hurt certain fisheries in regard to SMs, and the sub species, and to much lesser extent contrary to one single example in NC, LGM.   

 

The stuff we know in concrete that was released decades ago is still largely the only stuff that is set in concrete.