clemsondds Posted January 8, 2023 Posted January 8, 2023 Hey quick question for you knot guys. Last night I was rigging up a couple rods and decided to put some light fc on a rod. I am pretty sure it’s 40lb pp braid and i was putting 8lb tatsu on there. I was in a little bit of a hurry so just did the double uni. When I went to cinch it down, it broke. It didn’t slip through…it just broke with not very much force applied. So did it again and got the same result. Then I bumped up to 12lb fc and same results happened (twice). By then inwas really annoyed and tired, so just threw on some 12lb mono and it worked perfectly. Was the braid cutting it?? Quote
Super User bulldog1935 Posted January 8, 2023 Super User Posted January 8, 2023 Single bend knobs usually cut, not break. Try improved Allbright knot. Double uni knot works joining two lines of the same diameter and composition. When you join mono or fluoro of different diameter, the smaller line will cut through the larger. Even worse with braid. The on-topic answer is learn a knot that won't do this. 2 Quote
Super User casts_by_fly Posted January 8, 2023 Super User Posted January 8, 2023 I had the same issue with the double uni. The braid cuts right through it. I’d get one in four that tightened down right and held against a strong pull. I lost faith in it and went to the crazy Alberto (maybe the regular Alberto). Quote
GetFishorDieTryin Posted January 8, 2023 Posted January 8, 2023 You may be over tightening the knots before you slide them together them together, without adding enough lubrication to the knot and the line its traveling over, particularly when youre using a braid that isnt very smooth like original PP. A uni uni is strongest when the lines are of = diameter, the more dissimilar the line dia, the weaker the connection is. 3 1 Quote
clemsondds Posted January 8, 2023 Author Posted January 8, 2023 23 minutes ago, GetFishorDieTryin said: You may be over tightening the knots before you slide them together them together, without adding enough lubrication to the knot and the line its traveling over, particularly when youre using a braid that isnt very smooth like original PP. A uni uni is strongest when the lines are of = diameter, the more dissimilar the line dia, the weaker the connection is. No I had tons of lubricant on there ha. But yeh the diameters were very different and I think it just cut through. I was being very gentle when cinching it down. I tried lots of variations with same result. And then first try with mono it worked. I‘lol give the allbright and Alberto a try again. I mainly use the fg knot and like it, but sometimes I’m in a hurry or just not feeling it and want something else to go to Quote
Super User Deleted account Posted January 8, 2023 Super User Posted January 8, 2023 1 hour ago, casts_by_fly said: went to the crazy Alberto (maybe the regular Alberto). LOL. Quote
GetFishorDieTryin Posted January 8, 2023 Posted January 8, 2023 I used a Uni Uni for years with 20lb FC and 20-30lb 832 and it worked. I caught lots of stripers over 20lbs on it, but If I would snag up it wouldn't take all that much pressure to break it. Im surprised you could break it so easily. Ive never used Tatsu, but I suspect its soft which would make it easier for the braid to bite into it. Quote
padlin Posted January 8, 2023 Posted January 8, 2023 4 hours ago, bulldog1935 said: Single bend knobs usually cut, not break. Try improved Allbright knot. What is a single bend knot? Quote
Super User Boomstick Posted January 8, 2023 Super User Posted January 8, 2023 5 hours ago, GetFishorDieTryin said: You may be over tightening the knots before you slide them together them together, without adding enough lubrication to the knot and the line its traveling over, particularly when youre using a braid that isnt very smooth like original PP. A uni uni is strongest when the lines are of = diameter, the more dissimilar the line dia, the weaker the connection is. This is my thought as well. Quote
Super User A-Jay Posted January 8, 2023 Super User Posted January 8, 2023 I'd like to respond to this one, I really would. But my 2023 New Year's resolution and attached confidentiality agreement strictly forbids me to respond to any braid to leader line connection knot threads. Maybe next year. Good Luck A-Jay 1 5 Quote
Big Hands Posted January 8, 2023 Posted January 8, 2023 6 hours ago, casts_by_fly said: I lost faith in it and went to the crazy Alberto (maybe the regular Alberto). I prefer the semi-sane Alberto, with a wet kiss to cinch it down. . . YUK. No craziness experienced using 7 lb fluoro leaders tied to 10-12 lb braid. 3 minutes ago, A-Jay said: I'd like to respond to this one, I really would. But my 2023 New Year's resolution and attached confidentiality agreement strictly forbids me to respond to any braid to leader line connection knot threads. Maybe next year. Good Luck A-Jay Does that confidentiality agreement extend beyond the shores of Lake Menderchuk? 1 Quote
Super User MickD Posted January 8, 2023 Super User Posted January 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, A-Jay said: I'd like to respond to this one, I really would. But my 2023 New Year's resolution and attached confidentiality agreement strictly forbids me to respond to any braid to leader line connection knot threads. Maybe next year. Good Luck A-Jay Very dysfunctional, A-Jay. We need to get you some of those little pink heart mints with a soppy slogan on them for Valentine's day. Give me the address you'll be at on about April 15, and I'll deliver. Get you into a better mood just before you go out and tie a double uni. I have never had a double uni cut or break any leader, but as others have suggested, it could be that somehow the FC, which is by nature, fragile, is being damaged in the tying of the knot. Double unit is pretty reliable. 1 Quote
thediscochef Posted January 8, 2023 Posted January 8, 2023 Three actions fluorocarbon hates - cutting, bending, twisting - all present in the uni-uni knot. For fluorocarbon leaders the single-bend/Alberto style knots are the way to go 100%. Just need to be neat about them and make sure you cinch everything down with gloves on...they will absolutely unravel if you leave them too loose. I also like variants that do something with the tag end of the braid...tends to help avoid unraveling too. I went way too far down this rabbit hole last year and now I just use 12# mono on everything, while being constantly mocked by the murder of crows shaped like Roland Martin that follows me around from my house to the lake. He keeps saying weird things about "sink-os" and "owes arks". Ive aged 20 years in six months and I can't find any of my scissors 1 Quote
Super User A-Jay Posted January 8, 2023 Super User Posted January 8, 2023 9 minutes ago, Big Hands said: Does that confidentiality agreement extend beyond the shores of Lake Menderchuk? Seems legally binding on every Lake Menderchuck. And since no request for a stay is pending, if any deadline for requesting a stay is designated by statute or regulation, it has passed. So ya, I'm locked up Jack. ? A-Jay 3 Quote
Super User MN Fisher Posted January 8, 2023 Super User Posted January 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, A-Jay said: Seems legally binding on every Lake Menderchuck. And since no request for a stay is pending, if any deadline for requesting a stay is designated by statute or regulation, it has passed. So ya, I'm locked up Jack. ? A-Jay I'll just have to refine the focusing on my spy satellite. 1 Quote
clemsondds Posted January 8, 2023 Author Posted January 8, 2023 4 minutes ago, MickD said: Very dysfunctional, A-Jay. We need to get you some of those little pink heart mints with a soppy slogan on them for Valentine's day. Give me the address you'll be at on about April 15, and I'll deliver. Get you into a better mood just before you go out and tie a double uni. I have never had a double uni cut or break any leader, but as others have suggested, it could be that somehow the FC, which is by nature, fragile, is being damaged in the tying of the knot. Double unit is pretty reliable. Have you used similar size lines at the same time? I have tied the double uni tones of times and never had an issue till last night. But I can’t remember if I’ve tried that exact scenario. And I don’t think I mentioned, but when I switched to 12lb, I used sunline assassin…still same result. -lots of lubrication used -lightly tightened knots and slid down then tightened everything-broke -tightened knots pretty tight before cinching down and still also broke Quote
Super User Boomstick Posted January 8, 2023 Super User Posted January 8, 2023 5 minutes ago, clemsondds said: Have you used similar size lines at the same time? I have tied the double uni tones of times and never had an issue till last night. But I can’t remember if I’ve tried that exact scenario. And I don’t think I mentioned, but when I switched to 12lb, I used sunline assassin…still same result. -lots of lubrication used -lightly tightened knots and slid down then tightened everything-broke -tightened knots pretty tight before cinching down and still also broke Many of the lines I've used the double uni have been roughly the same size, it doesn't really matter too much. Quote
clemsondds Posted January 8, 2023 Author Posted January 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, Boomstick said: Many of the lines I've used the double uni have been roughly the same size, it doesn't really matter too much. Sorry, I meant using 45lb braid to 8-12lb fluoro Quote
Super User A-Jay Posted January 8, 2023 Super User Posted January 8, 2023 25 minutes ago, MN Fisher said: I'll just have to refine the focusing on my spy satellite. Turn around the line's behind you. 2 Quote
ska4fun Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 Fluoro gets weakened by heat easily. Try the alberto knot. Quote
Super User OkobojiEagle Posted January 9, 2023 Super User Posted January 9, 2023 Trilene Sensation... Quote
Super User WRB Posted January 9, 2023 Super User Posted January 9, 2023 Use the knot that Seaguar recommends on the Smack Down box. Tom Quote
Super User MickD Posted January 9, 2023 Super User Posted January 9, 2023 12 hours ago, clemsondds said: Have you used similar size lines at the same time? I have used FC to braid with FC from about 10 pound test to 20 and braid from 10 to 50 without problems. I cannot think of the reason for your problems. Since I now use mostly micro guides I've changed to my version of the Alberto, which has worked just fine. I do an Alberto as shown in all the on line diagrams then finish it with two overhand knots of the braid tag tightly set against theknot. Doesn't make it any bigger but keeps it from unravelling, which I have experienced without the overhand knots. I suggest you try the Alberto with the same lines and report whether there were breaking troubles. Quote
Super User MN Fisher Posted January 9, 2023 Super User Posted January 9, 2023 45 minutes ago, MickD said: I have used FC to braid with FC from about 10 pound test to 20 and braid from 10 to 50 without problems. I cannot think of the reason for your problems. Since I now use mostly micro guides I've changed to my version of the Alberto, which has worked just fine. When I'm pre-rigging before a trip, I use the FG. If I need to replace a leader on the water I use the Alberto. 50# 832 to 20# AbrazX 40# 832 to 15# AbrazX 20# 832 or Smackdown to 8# InvizX 10# 832 to 6# InvizX Very rarely do I have breakoffs at the knot...more usually it's somewhere between that and the terminal connection. Quote
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