2023 Flies

[Further North]

You're not the only one.

...I'm trying to figure out how to do it on a fly rod, without creating a mess when I cast.

[Deleted account]

Mount a spinning reel on it...

[Further North]

That'd be boring.

[Deleted account]

Mount a spinning reel on it and a stripper pole on the back pedestal mount...

[PressuredFishing]

Fishing fly rods with weight is frustrating at times, expecially anything over half a gram.  Do not false cast more than you need to, cast tremendously lightly, shoot the line  instead of false casting. 

[TnRiver46]

I used to chuck finesse worms Texas rigged on 5 weight, no false cast and watch out for the worm whizzing by your ear haha

[Further North]

48 minutes ago, Deleted account said:

 

Mount a spinning reel on it and a stripper pole on the back pedestal mount...

You're adding trolling to it?  ?

 

21 minutes ago, PressuredFishing said:

Fishing fly rods with weight is frustrating at times, expecially anything over half a gram.  Do not false cast more than you need to, cast tremendously lightly, shoot the line  instead of false casting. 

Big, open loops, and a Belgian style cast work OK...but a weight below the fly still manages to make a mess at times.

4 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

I used to chuck finesse worms Texas rigged on 5 weight, no false cast and watch out for the worm whizzing by your ear haha

I can't remember the last time I used a 5 wt.

At least a 6 wt. for this, and probably an 8 wt.

I've worked hard to eliminate false casting - for bass it's mostly pull the fly out of the water into one back cast and right back into the water again.

[TnRiver46]

Yeah I was always just killing time, we taught fly casting on a “fly fishing only” pond so that’s how I caught the bass . They ignored all flies , then again they never saw the flies you’ve posted above haha

[Fallser]

I actually can do that with my fly rods.   I use Fuji single foot spinning guides for the running guides on my rods.  They're all set up for removable fighting butts.  I've made fighting butts from 3 inches to 10 inches long.   They become emergency spinning rods if for some reason I break one of my spinning rods.

As far as weight goes.  I fish mainly a 9' 6 wgt, but do use an 8 wgt when it's needed.   I can cast 1/32 oz bucktail or marabou jigs with the 6 wgt.  I also tie them on 1/20 oz jigs.

As far drop shotting, on some of the fly fishing boards there have been discussions about drop shotting.  I guess I should read them.  I think it can be done.  Probably easier to do from a boat rather than from shore.  I would set it up using a sinking line though I guess you could use a floating line depending on the water depth.  Short heavy tippet with a loop or swivel at the end.  Drop shot portion, shouldn't have to be more than 3 or 4 feet long.  The fly should be unweighted.  Bucktail or marabou fly.  Even a Zonker.   What type of weight would use.  You could use split shot.  I would lean toward a small sinker(1/32 to 1/16th oz).  For my own use I have a lot of 1/16 oz or smaller jigs I'd just clip off the hook and use the jig head as the weight.  I won't have a chance to try it till late August when I head up to Ontario.  Most of the lakes my buddies and I fish are shallow and weedy.

[flyfisher]

Tied a few flies here lately.

 

[Further North]

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5 hours ago, flyfisher said:

Tied a few flies here lately.

 

Nice work!

Thos Flymen Howitzer heads - and the Double Barrel heads - are the best thing to happen to popper fly tying in my lifetime.

Insanely durable and easy to tie with.

[flyfisher]

1 hour ago, Further North said:

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Nice work!

Thos Flymen Howitzer heads - and the Double Barrel heads - are the best thing to happen to popper fly tying in my lifetime.

Insanely durable and easy to tie with.

I absolutely love the Howitzer flies and while there are a few times a year they seem to want the splat of deer hair 99% of the time foam heads work just as well.  I did make the murdich minnow based on yours and I didn't have the large Estaz but the finesse changer chenile seemed to work fine.

[Further North]

42 minutes ago, flyfisher said:

I absolutely love the Howitzer flies and while there are a few times a year they seem to want the splat of deer hair 99% of the time foam heads work just as well.

I agree on all of that...and I carry some deer hair poppers and divers for when that happens.

 

 

43 minutes ago, flyfisher said:

I did make the murdich minnow based on yours and I didn't have the large Estaz but the finesse changer chenile seemed to work fine.

They sure look like they'll work; you have to go with what you have.

 

I use the big Changer product on my "mega" Murdichs.

 

[Fallser]

Nice ties.   I haven't done that much tying recently.    Worked mainly on small weedless frog patterns.  Figure this time of year the frogs will be smaller than later in the season. 

 

They're tied on Size 4 Ahrex GB Predator hooks.  I also tie them in larger sizes, size 2 and 1/0.  Might do a couple on 4/0 hooks.  I was watching a fishing show a couple of weeks ago and they were using popping weedless frogs with lot of success.  I have a basic frog pattern, so I messed around and came up with a popping frog.

I tried the smallest one when I was up in the Poconos, in late May.  Didn't catch any bass but picked up a couple of chain pickerel.

Another one I thinking about tying up for my Ontario trip in late August is the Schoolie Fly.  Originally created for salt water by Bob Popovics.  Not in the mood to tie up an Alabama rig fly but this might work for bass.  It definitely needs some work

[Further North]

@Fallser that's some very cool experimentation!

Can you share a bit about how you make the frogs?  What is the foam material?

The Schoolie is cool too - I've seen some with two on the hook, but three is new to me.

The Ahrex GB Predator hook has made some new ideas very possible.

 

[Fallser]

12 hours ago, Further North said:

Can you share a bit about how you make the frogs?  What is the foam material?

The Schoolie is cool too - I've seen some with two on the hook, but three is new to me.

The Ahrex GB Predator hook has made some new ideas very possible.

 

Here's the a picture of the materials.

I got the idea from a pattern called the "Gutless Frog"  I tied the original but didn't like it's action.  After watching a couple of fishing shows on frog fishing I decided to model the fly based on the plastic frog the pros were using.

The body is a strip of 6 mm craft foam.  I usually make them 5 mm wide.  You can find the white sheets in a craft store.  They also have black and sometimes yellow. One of my fly catalogs also sells squares of it.  That's where the green and yellow ones came from.

You take a 6 to 8 inch inch strip of foam.  Tie one end against the shank, leave enough of the strip facing forward.  It will get folded back to make the head.

Bring the strip around the bend of the hook and lay it against the opposite side of the shank.  Before you wrap it down, adjust the tension of the strip on the hook bend.  You can get an idea from the popping frog how the hook sits.  Tight enough to hold the hook in place.  Loose enough that the body slides down when the bass hits it, exposing the hook.  Wrap that side down. Again leaving enough of the strip to bend back to make the head.  Trim the strips to size you want the head to be.

Fold them back and glue them to the sides.   Even with super glue you may have to hold them in place till the glue sets.

Add eyes to side of the head.  I use spinner bait skirt layers for the legs.  I use a needle to poke a hole in the foam at the bend close to the belly of the fly.  Decide on the number of legs.  I use between 3 and 6 depending on the size of the frog.  I use one of those blue dental floss threaders to pull the legs through.  Trim to the length you want.   I use permanent markers to color the body.

The popping frog is pretty much the same, except I cut the strips so they're just behind the eyes.  Then I trim so they're not as wide or thick.  I use one of those pre-made soft foam poppers for the head.  I trim it to the size I need.  Hollow the back out with a Dremel tool.  Slide it on the hook, make sure it sits against the body and glue it place.

  The Schoolie fly is interesting.  Popovics has tied them with as many as five bodies on the hook.  The best I can do is three without messing up the tie.  A guy on another board tied up an Alabama Rig fly.  It looked good, but it was a lot of work.   It apparently was a PITA to cast.

  Let me know if you have any questions

[Further North]

@Fallser, thanks!  That's a great tutorial. 

[VolFan]

I can’t imagine trying to double haul a a-rig fly - I have enough trouble with big streamers

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, VolFan said:

I can’t imagine trying to double haul a a-rig fly - I have enough trouble with big streamers

 No double haul required. Just a single Chuck and duck haha

[flyfisher]

On 6/23/2023 at 8:55 PM, VolFan said:

I can’t imagine trying to double haul a a-rig fly - I have enough trouble with big streamers

Having the right tool for the job makes it much easier.  People scoff at havier weight rods but if that is what I need then that is what I am going to use.  When I tell people i use what is the equivalent of like a 10/11 wt for bass i have been told oh i can do that with a 5,6,7wt.....my response is i am sure you can but I can promise you my day will be much easier because i have the right rod matched with the right fly.

 

As far as throwing heavier streamers go the key is to not make the fly heavier but the line :). I started throwing a sink tip line a few years back and it is awesome and allows for a different mindset tying flies and creates a different sink than a traditionally weighted fly would.

[Further North]

6 minutes ago, flyfisher said:

Having the right tool for the job makes it much easier.  People scoff at heavier weight rods but if that is what I need then that is what I am going to use.  When I tell people i use what is the equivalent of like a 10/11 wt for bass i have been told oh i can do that with a 5,6,7wt.....my response is i am sure you can but I can promise you my day will be much easier because i have the right rod matched with the right fly.

You absolutely nailed that.  I fish everything form a 3 wt. to a "heavy" 12 wt., as needed.  A 15" fly on a that heavy 12 is no big deal...and while I could make it work on an 8 wt. it'd be a lot more work, I'd be a lot more frustrated and tired at the end of the day, and I'd catch fewer fish.

I don't understand - and never will - the insistence of some anglers on using rods too small for the flies, or for the fish.  The idea that it's more "sporting" is utter nonsense.

 

10 minutes ago, flyfisher said:

As far as throwing heavier streamers go the key is to not make the fly heavier but the line :). I started throwing a sink tip line a few years back and it is awesome and allows for a different mindset tying flies and creates a different sink than a traditionally weighted fly would.

Absolute truth.  I run lines up to 550 grains and choose them according to what it'll take to get a particular fly out where I need it.  Adding weight to a fly creates all kinds of issues and can make casting them a complete PITA.

Choosing between floating, intermediate, and the various sink rates of lines to get the fly in the right place in the water column makes a big difference too.

 

[Fallser]

Finally tracked down a picture of the Alabama rig fly that was on the Fly Tying Forum.

The tyer claims he can cast it with a 6 wgt.  Not sure I'd want to do that.  This is about the largest fly I can cast with my 6 wgt.  It's more of a chuck and duck with a floating line, but I can cast easily with a sinking line.

I removed the prop from my later versions since it twisted my leader.

I generally use a 6 wgt with a heavy leader.  I gotten some grief about doing that on other boards, but I'm no spring chicken and I have an arthritic shoulder. It's easier for me to cast the 6 wgt for a couple of hours than it is an 8 wgt.

  That's the beauty of tying your own flies.  You can tailor them to fit the weight of the rod you're using.  That fly is all feathers.  Saddle hackle for the tail and wrapped spey hackle for the body.  The only real weight is the hook and the epoxy head.  Most of my flies are unweighted.   If I have to get one deep I use a sink tip line.  If I want to run a subsurface fly, down to around 5 or 6 feet, I use an intermediate line.   The heaviest fly I have in my fly box, right now are those tied on 1/32 oz jigs and my crayfish flies which are tied with dumbbell eyes about the same weight.  All which can be easily cast with my 6 wgt and a heavy leader.  I do use my 8 wgt occasionally but not that often.

 

[Further North]

1 hour ago, Fallser said:

Finally tracked down a picture of the Alabama rig fly that was on the Fly Tying Forum.

The tyer claims he can cast it with a 6 wgt.  Not sure I'd want to do that. 

Casting that with a 6 wt. definitely falls into the "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should" category.

There's no reason to not bump up on rod size, unless the angler doesn't own a heavier rod.

1 hour ago, Fallser said:

That's the beauty of tying your own flies.  You can tailor them to fit the weight of the rod you're using.  That fly is all feathers.  Saddle hackle for the tail and wrapped spey hackle for the body.  The only real weight is the hook and the epoxy head.  Most of my flies are unweighted.   If I have to get one deep I use a sink tip line.  If I want to run a subsurface fly, down to around 5 or 6 feet, I use an intermediate line.   The heaviest fly I have in my fly box, right now are those tied on 1/32 oz jigs and my crayfish flies which are tied with dumbbell eyes about the same weight.  All which can be easily cast with my 6 wgt and a heavy leader.  I do use my 8 wgt occasionally but not that often.

 

That's my biggest reason for tying my own flies as well:  Tailor them to how I want to fish.

[TnRiver46]

My buddy throws a full sink line quite often. I tried it once, that’s a wild ride! Some of us are used to size 16 elk hair caddis in 5 foot wide creeks haha

[Further North]

It can be.  Getting a big streamer out there and watching a big predator chase it down - whether it's a big trout, bass, pike, musky or something else, is a thrill.

I'm often  left scratching my head at the industry's lack of clarity about what is a full sink, and a sink tip.  Most of my lines, I believe, fall into the sink tip category, with really only the head being the sinking part of the line. 

Low water the last couple years has us mostly using intermediate of slow - 3 IPS - sinking lines.