Do you have a kayak with a bottom rudder, and do you use your truck bed to haul it?

[Seafury]

So I am debating on moving away from my Old Town Sportsman 120 PDL for a host of reasons I won't go into atm.

 

To you folks with a Bonafide or Native (or other brands) with a bottom mounted rudder, how do you get your kayak out of your truck bed without it breaking the rudder?

 

With my OT the rudder flips up into the top of the kayak (one of the reasons I need to get rid of this boat)

So when I pull it out of my truck bed the rear keel (which has a replaceable skidplate) rests on the ground while I grab the front and rotate it off my bed extender onto the ground.

Thats 100+lbs of weight on the keel, np for my OT.

 

I am afraid this same procedure with a bottom rudder kayak will place the kayak on the rudder when I set it down to grab the front end and pull it off the bed extender.

Is this an issue for you guys?

 

Also, when loading my OT, I drag it forward and lift the nose onto the bed extender, so it drags and scraps the replaceable skidplate, then I go grab the stern lift and shove it into the bed.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience!

 

[flyfisher]

Just get a boat that doesn't need a rudder   

All kidding aside, I don't have these boats so I cannot comment but I would imagine taking a look in person or just loading it stern in would help alleviate some of the added pressure on that area.  I trailer my kayak currently 

[bigbassin']

2 ways:

 

1) Slide the kayak out just enough you can attach a kayak cart, but still balanced in the bed of the truck. Continue pushing the yak out of the bed until the wheels of the cart touch the ground. This is my preferred method if on concrete or I needed to pull the kayak any distance.
 

2) I would tilt my native on it’s side than slide it out the bed. This would put the weight on the side of the kayak rather than the rudder.

 

 

[Choporoz]

I have a Native and a Hobie.  No truck, but I car-top on SUVs.  I really struggled with the lift for some time.  I stood them on crates, with rudder inside the crate....I used curbs and blocks....nothing worked well.  Carrying the Hobie upside down works ok.  The Native seat is a PITA to put in/take out, so upside down wasn't a good option.   I now use Thule Hullivators.  Hobie now offers some sort of rudder protector thing, but I never heard that anyone really likes it.  Maybe OT (or an aftermarket company) has something similar that actually works

[Darth-Baiter]

i am a Hobie guy.  i run my kayak in the bed of my truck with a bed extender.  my rudder sits underneath the boat like you mention.

 

i stick the kayaks butt into the truck first.  nose riding out.  i pull it alongside the bed extender and put the red rubber flag that is tied to the nose during transport under the keel.  (minor protection).  then i life the tail up onto the bed extender.  then i lift the nose and push it in and tie off.  my rudder never hits the ground in an unfavorbable situation.  my Hobie is an OUTBACK.  it comes with a rudder gaurd i can use it if i ever need to go nose first..which is now my friend gets his boat up on the roof.

 

tail goes in first. 

[WRB]

Not a kayak user but see a lot of them being launched using C-Tug Blaza carts on our concrete ramps and looks effortless.

Tom

[Seafury]

On 1/3/2023 at 6:11 AM, bigbassin' said:

2 ways:

 

1) Slide the kayak out just enough you can attach a kayak cart, but still balanced in the bed of the truck. Continue pushing the yak out of the bed until the wheels of the cart touch the ground. This is my preferred method if on concrete or I needed to pull the kayak any distance.
 

2) I would tilt my native on it’s side than slide it out the bed. This would put the weight on the side of the kayak rather than the rudder.

 

 

Thanks for the feedback!

 

1) When loading I do this and drop the cart once I lift the stern and slide it in the bed as far as the cart allows. My cart being just stern of midway would be a pita to mount to the stern, and the rudder would be in the way of the cart right?

I don't see way to get the cart on the end with a bottom rudder?

 

When unloading, the angle is too steep the cart would have to go on the very ass end and it does not really "fit" the hull shape there, not to mention there is a rudder system in the way of doing this on the end.

 

I will try to investigate when I get a chance to view one of these kayaks in person hopefully later in the year.

 

2) I also had this thought. Seems like a pita (Like everything about a fishing kayak that's not on a trailer stored in a garage) and I still think the rudder is going to take stress this way at some point no matter what if your doing this by yourself.

 

Thats the main issue here, loading and unloading yourself puts the kayak in these situations that are not good.

 

Wish I had a house with a yard and a garage, so I could just have a boat or boats lol.

On 1/2/2023 at 9:11 PM, flyfisher said:

Just get a boat that doesn't need a rudder   

All kidding aside, I don't have these boats so I cannot comment but I would imagine taking a look in person or just loading it stern in would help alleviate some of the added pressure on that area.  I trailer my kayak currently 

Thanks for the thoughts.

 

I feel like stern first into the bed = potential for rudder damage, so I don't think this is a good idea, but maybe.

Need to investigate in person as you said.

On 1/3/2023 at 6:55 AM, Choporoz said:

I have a Native and a Hobie.  No truck, but I car-top on SUVs.  I really struggled with the lift for some time.  I stood them on crates, with rudder inside the crate....I used curbs and blocks....nothing worked well.  Carrying the Hobie upside down works ok.  The Native seat is a PITA to put in/take out, so upside down wasn't a good option.   I now use Thule Hullivators.  Hobie now offers some sort of rudder protector thing, but I never heard that anyone really likes it.  Maybe OT (or an aftermarket company) has something similar that actually works

Yea I can understand what you might have gone through.

 

Idk how you guys car top these giant fishing kayaks.

I never even considered it before I had my truck, way too much effort/risk imho.

 

Glad you found something that helps make it happen for you!

[Seafury]

On 1/3/2023 at 12:26 PM, Darth-Baiter said:

i am a Hobie guy.  i run my kayak in the bed of my truck with a bed extender.  my rudder sits underneath the boat like you mention.

 

i stick the kayaks butt into the truck first.  nose riding out.  i pull it alongside the bed extender and put the red rubber flag that is tied to the nose during transport under the keel.  (minor protection).  then i life the tail up onto the bed extender.  then i lift the nose and push it in and tie off.  my rudder never hits the ground in an unfavorbable situation.  my Hobie is an OUTBACK.  it comes with a rudder gaurd i can use it if i ever need to go nose first..which is now my friend gets his boat up on the roof.

 

tail goes in first. 

Hmm I may have to try this when I visit one in person.

I feel like from pics I have seen, some of these bottom rudder kayaks the rudder actually sticks out farther than the stern, so I worry this is still putting stress on the rudder sliding it in and out?

 

I also tie the kayak in a way that pulls it into the bed under the strap stress, and I strap the tail down to the bed extender.

This may also be due to the design of my OT Sportsman 120 PDL as I run a strap through the handles to the tie downs at the tail gate latch area, and with my 5.5ft bed this puts my kayak handles just outside the tailgate latch area, so my straps are pulling the boat into the bed when tight if that all makes sense?

 

I guess for me this is all going to come down to getting my hands on one in person and testing it if they will let me. More hassle to worry about and this kayak is already a pita.

 

If I was dumber I might go rent a storage unit so I can just trailer this dam thing but screw wasting all that money lol.

 

Man, I HAVE GOT to move to a new place better suited to my skills/hobbies/needs, what's the lottery up to now?

On 1/4/2023 at 1:15 PM, WRB said:

Not a kayak user but see a lot of them being launched using C-Tug Blaza carts on our concrete ramps and looks effortless.

Tom

Yes, we all use carts my friend.

My concern is moving from a stern mounted, folding into the top rudder, to a bottom stern rudder mounted system, then the issue of the kayak resting on this flimsy rudder when loading/unloading into my truck bed.

 

My truck being lifted 3f/2r doesn't help either, glad I didn't get the 6in lift I really wanted before I thought about getting a fishing kayak LOL!

Thanks for all the idea's, everyone!

 

I really need to find someone nearby on facebook with one of these that will meet up and let me test, or later in the year once the 2023 models arrive I will have to drive 3 hours each way to the nearest dealer.

 

I am currently leaning towards the Native Slayer max propel 12.5

I go back and forth between that, and the Native Titan max propel 12, and the Bonafide P127....

 

Wish someone made one good kayak with all the right features!

 

The perfect fishing kayak as designed by me:

 

Native Titan 12 hull, mainly stern and bow design elements, narrowed to 36-37-38in wide so I can actually fit my crate and battery toolbox in the huge rear well with my seat all the way back (for us bigger taller guys)
Optional OT PDL in a flat deck hole, includes a block off plate like Navarre Kayak makes whether you get the PDL or not.
Hobbie retractable skeg and rudder, or some better bottom design rudder that allows for truck bed hauling where the kayak has to rest all its weight on the stern during loading and unloading but still allows for stern centerline mounted motors like NK180/300.
Optional pedal steering for motor steering if preferred.
Slayer horizontal rod storage and under seat drawer.
Aftermarket Slayer upgraded steering design.
Slayer replaceable accessory side plates.
Rear hull access cover, front bow Titan huge flat bottom full length removeable tub insert with incredible hull access.
Of course, reinforced bow and stern factory threaded inserts (in the standard design/size) for front spotlock / rear Newport Vessels motor mounts.
Full length tracks front and rear to within 4 inches of bow tip and stern tip. Double row in some spots.
OT side paddle holders on BOTH sides so I can choose my preference! None of this useless take the paddle apart store in rear tank well where you can't get it in any reasonable amount of time bs.
Nucanoe 360 swivel seat design on a height adjustable elevated base of some kind that slides forward and backwards and locks in place front and rear with easy rotation lock mechanism so it doesn't just free rotate all the time either.
Not sure who has the best actual seat, OT or Native or Hobbie, but most are decent regardless.
Faster bottom hull design while still being just as stable as these other designs.
Replaceable rear drag plates as needed, replaceable front keel guard, shallower front keel as Natives front keel is way too deep and wack looking.

 

All for $1999 with PDL, $1499 without PDL.

Sell out faster than you can make them, put all other fishing kayaks and various models out of business.
Catch fish anywhere, rule the world, game over.

[Jmilburn76]

I have a 10’ Native Slayer that I basically unload on the rudder, surprisingly I haven’t broke anything yet. I do have landing gear wheels but where I usually launch the angle from the bank is too much to use the wheels.  I use the wheels to load and unload at the house then leave them there. I also have the c-tug but I dont use it.

[bigbassin']

On 1/8/2023 at 11:20 AM, Seafury said:

Thanks for the feedback!

 

1) When loading I do this and drop the cart once I lift the stern and slide it in the bed as far as the cart allows. My cart being just stern of midway would be a pita to mount to the stern, and the rudder would be in the way of the cart right?

I don't see way to get the cart on the end with a bottom rudder?

 

 

The cart will be at the base of the rudder, so close to the back of the kayak but about 1-2’ from the edge.

 

My cart wheels were big enough that they’d hit the ground about 2” before the rudder would. If your truck has any lift or the wheels on the cart are smaller than what I had, I could see the approach angle being too steep and this not working.

[Darth-Baiter]

If Find it hard to imagine a kayak designer drafting up a boat that can’t lay flat on a surface because the rudder stands proud of the bottom.  
 

my friend throws his Native into the back of his box van.  Tail in first. 

[the reel ess]

On 1/2/2023 at 9:11 PM, flyfisher said:

Just get a boat that doesn't need a rudder   

All kidding aside, I don't have these boats so I cannot comment but I would imagine taking a look in person or just loading it stern in would help alleviate some of the added pressure on that area.  I trailer my kayak currently 

You can certainly buy kayaks with a built-in skeg instead of a rudder that can be steered. I have two such boats.

[Seafury]

On 1/15/2023 at 11:41 AM, Darth-Baiter said:

If Find it hard to imagine a kayak designer drafting up a boat that can’t lay flat on a surface because the rudder stands proud of the bottom.  
 

my friend throws his Native into the back of his box van.  Tail in first. 

It's not laying it flat so much as it is tipping it on its stern (rudder) to load and unload.

On 1/14/2023 at 9:56 AM, bigbassin' said:

The cart will be at the base of the rudder, so close to the back of the kayak but about 1-2’ from the edge.

 

My cart wheels were big enough that they’d hit the ground about 2” before the rudder would. If your truck has any lift or the wheels on the cart are smaller than what I had, I could see the approach angle being too steep and this not working.

Yea I get what your saying.

I don't think my OT 120 PDL hull shape or even a Native stern hull shape will really allow my cart to mount there without falling off, but I'm not for sure.

 

I recently upgraded to the overpriced Wilderness systems cart from a pos $50 amazon cart that I added 3" pvc guides to. The wheels were coming off the hubs under full load of gear, cheap crap because of that issue only.

 

Yea my truck as just under 2" of rear lift give or take.

Not much but it doesn't help lol.

[Darth-Baiter]

I've never paid attention, but Greg Blanchard is taking his Native on/off his truck all the time.  you ever watch one of his videos?.  I can't remember which end he sets on the ground coming out of the truck.  I think it is the tail end.  and he upgrades his rudder to the bigger aftermarket one.