Are ceramic bearing in a reel an upgrade I wanna do?

[Darth-Baiter]

1st. Super impressed a few of you got my “dunked my reel in…” thread locked down!  Hahaha.  Well done!

 

anyways as a result of that thread I erred on the side of caution and sent my reel in.  The guy promised to call me before he puts it back together. He asked me to think about ceramic bearings.  +$ a few bucks.  He said they make a tiny bit of noise, but are smooth as butter.   Adds casting distance.  
 

thoughts?

 

 

[Deleted account]

My leaf blower makes a tiny bit of noise...

[suzuki2903]

Ceramic bearings definitively make a difference! You won’t get a ton of extra distance but the reel will be smoother and easier to cast.  Cheap ceramic vs expensive plays a role and there is a difference too!  If you crank the spool tension down that will effect any bearing as well and lose distance …. I run all my spools loose and the tensioner so it just takes the side play out and rely on my thumb and brakes .  

[new2BC4bass]

My thoughts are that which reel you put the bearings in makes a difference.  I've had several reels upgraded with better bearings.  Only one was to ceramic, and it was a Curado 51E.  Not much help (in distance) that I could tell, and I also have a stock 51E.  I read that some people get a lot of extra distance with bearing upgrades.  That has not been my experience.  I find I get about the same distance, but with a little less effort.  This can help with accuracy.  Of course, that could be due to the reels I had upgraded.

 

However, I have never tried 'before and after' tests for distance.  I'd bet that I probably could get a little more distance, but have no idea how much it might amount to.  BUT, I am not as good as a lot of people here so I'm sure that also affects my results.

 

[T-Billy]

Clean bearings matter more than the material IME. I didn't notice much difference when I put ceramic hybrids in one of my super duty's, other than the ceramics are noisy when dry. I won't be buying more.

[Jig Man]

I sent several reels to a guy to be cleaned, super tuned and install ceramic bearings.  I didn’t see much difference.  I’d just put good abec bearings in.

[FishTank]

To me it depends on the reel and the bearing you use.

 

I have put them in a few and noticed a difference in mainly my older Shimano's. The ones that improved the most.... Curado 201G, Chronarch 51e, Calcutta 251, Core 51 and 101, and a 2 Antares 2012's. All of these reels have had the original bearings cleaned and oiled just to test the difference. At first there was only a small improvement with the ceramics but over time the distance and a small bit of smoothness increased. I have tried different brands and come to find I like Bocca's ABEC 7 ceramic (non orange sealed) the best. 

 

I would say in the newer reels, Shimano has the best stock bearings. If you have a bad one that needs replaced, I would consider getting Shimano's top of the line bearings they put in the new Antares. I put them in a buddy's Curado B's and they cast a mile. They are generally cheaper than ceramics as well. 

 

 

[Darth-Baiter]

thanks.  so far, I think I will decline the upgrade.  this is my super smooth already 150MGL.  

[GreenPig]

I put ceramics in 5 of my reels and noticed very little if any difference compared to the cleaned & lubed factory bearings.

[roadwarrior]

Not worth it to me. I "upgraded" a couple of reels and did NOT like the noise.

[newapti5]

Ceramic bearing "upgrade" IMO and experience

Pros:

1.  Rotate easier, which means casting would require less effort. This is important for very light lures, but matters less for regular weight lures. 

2. It increases casting distance a little, especially for light lures, but not so much for regular weight lures. 

3. Easy for maintenance. You don't have to add oil to bearings all the time. It runs dry, so all you need is an acetone flush once a year. 

4. Corrosion resistance is excellent, compared to regular stainless steel bearings. 

 

Cons:

1. Noisy. After some usage, tiny debris will get in there, and it'll get louder. 

2. A little less smooth under load.  If by "smooth" you mean cranking the handle easier, then yes, it's "smoother."  One hard spin on the handle, it will keep rotating for a long time.  But if by "smooth" you mean less geary grinding feeling while under load,  ceramic spool bearings will actually add a little extra "grinding" feeling to the reel, compared to regular stainless steel bearings. 

3. I assume we're talking about hybrid ceramic bearings, because full ceramic bearings will be kind of brittle, not designed for heavy loads.   

 

So to sum it up, you're trading comfort and quietness for performance and convenience. 

 

 

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

Good gains to be had with the older VBS worth the upgrade but the newer SVS very little to gain not worth upgrade.

[Woody B]

10 hours ago, Darth-Baiter said:

thanks.  so far, I think I will decline the upgrade.  this is my super smooth already 150MGL.  

 

 

I was going to say go ahead and do it.   The "upgrade" won't ruin the reel and isn't that expensive.   You'll never know until you try.

 

FWIW I've never had anything other than factory bearings.   

[bulldog1935]

Answering the title of the thread, do what you want. There's always a luddite chorus on this topic, and there isn't a generic answer. 

Bearing upgrades are aimed primarily at spool bearings, reducing rotating mass and inertia, which improves cast distance and brake performance.  No one will likely notice the difference unless they measure the results side by side. 

Jun Sonada has made the effort to measure and report the results from reel/spool tuning, and note his chart includes both low-profile reels and a separate column for Ambassadeur. 

https://japantackle.com/tackle_topics/spool_tuneup.htm

 

Most people aren't going to make the effort to switch to unshielded spool bearings and racy bearing oil, but it's a big difference casting light weights, and also in the salt, since you're flushing your bearings every time you oil them.   Daiwa's mag-seal drive bearings are an advantage in the salt.  Otherwise, shielded bearings are a disadvantage, because they become a reservoir for salt - salt water in, steam out. 

 

Both on surf reels and BFS, I've measured the results of spool bearing upgrades.  The first big step is the switch to unshielded.  The lower mass of SiC makes a difference, and casting below 1/2 oz, you notice a big difference switching to unshielded bearings and micro-bearings that match your casting range, as much as 15-20% gain over stock bearings. 

 

 

Slapping in higher-grade orange seal hybrid ceramic spool bearings with improved bearing oil (ABEC 7 will be delivered that way), you'll likely get that 6% difference.  Full zirconia - a strange animal that sounds like the world is coming apart - while they do what's advertised and can be ignored, there are better choices if you're going to give the maintenance attention. 

Edited for @T-Billy Salty SD in 1/4-oz niche.  SDS full-ceramic air bearings on left, and KTF IXA SiC micros on right.  Both make deep-spool SD cast like BFS.  But the full-ZrO ceramic were so loud my buddy commented across the tide pass (150').  Also for the whole corrosion thing below, some SiC bearings have salt-resistant races, others don't.  The KTF bearings are both salt rated, and rated to cast 20g.  The trick, you have to buy from KTF through a broker, where I build up a cache of small orders before I ship. 

[redmeansdistortion]

The big thing to keep in mind when it comes to bearing upgrades, you're at the mercy of two things.  Your brake and your thumb.  Ideally, you will adjust your braking to get the full potential of your new bearings.  Not just brake setting, but getting in there and actually changing things like adding/removing magnets in the case of Lew's or other Doyo reels, using lighter brake shoes with friction brakes, or in the case of Daiwa, using a different inductor spring or adding another shim to the inductor, or even swapping magnet assemblies.  This is the nitty gritty of reel tuning, getting in there and making real adjustments that alter the character of the reel itself.  The idea is to strike a balance between castability and distance.

 

Here's a case study, a Daiwa Millionaire Ringa SSS that was originally a Magforce Z reel.  I wanted to convert this to a BFS Millionaire.  Where most would simply swap the spool and bearings, I found the performance very lacking.  Here you can see the original magnet assembly on the left, and the new Millionaire CT magnet assembly on the right.  Notice how it's thinner, it will be much more conducive to throwing the small stuff I intend to throw and won't be choked off when I go more than 1/4 brake.

 

The factory magnet assembly was far too strong for finesse fishing.  The reel itself was intended to cast effectively from 3/8 on up, which it did very well.  With a finesse spool and SiC bearings, there was very little range of motion in the braking.  It was all or nothing.  No bearing would've been able to address that since I was at the mercy of the braking system.

 

Here is what I was dealing with.  The top photo below shows the original magnet assembly, and the bottom after the swap.  The cool thing about reels is that so many share platforms that it's often entirely possible to roll your own exactly how you want it.

 

This reel can now really stretch its legs.  Everything has been addressed for me to bend it to my will; brakes, spool, and bearings.  I can bomb anything from 1/16 on up completely controlled, and can even cast less than that providing the wind conditions are cooperative and I'm being realistic with the distance I can attain.  It's a fun rig and spends time in the creeks in my area chasing trout and smallmouth.

[PourMyOwn]

1 hour ago, redmeansdistortion said:

The big thing to keep in mind when it comes to bearing upgrades, you're at the mercy of two things.  Your brake and your thumb.  Ideally, you will adjust your braking to get the full potential of your new bearings.  Not just brake setting, but getting in there and actually changing things like adding/removing magnets in the case of Lew's or other Doyo reels, using lighter brake shoes with friction brakes, or in the case of Daiwa, using a different inductor spring or adding another shim to the inductor, or even swapping magnet assemblies.  This is the nitty gritty of reel tuning, getting in there and making real adjustments that alter the character of the reel itself.  The idea is to strike a balance between castability and distance.

 

Here's a case study, a Daiwa Millionaire Ringa SSS that was originally a Magforce Z reel.  I wanted to convert this to a BFS Millionaire.  Where most would simply swap the spool and bearings, I found the performance very lacking.  Here you can see the original magnet assembly on the left, and the new Millionaire CT magnet assembly on the right.  Notice how it's thinner, it will be much more conducive to throwing the small stuff I intend to throw and won't be choked off when I go more than 1/4 brake.

 

The factory magnet assembly was far too strong for finesse fishing.  The reel itself was intended to cast effectively from 3/8 on up, which it did very well.  With a finesse spool and SiC bearings, there was very little range of motion in the braking.  It was all or nothing.  No bearing would've been able to address that since I was at the mercy of the braking system.

 

Here is what I was dealing with.  The top photo below shows the original magnet assembly, and the bottom after the swap.  The cool thing about reels is that so many share platforms that it's often entirely possible to roll your own exactly how you want it.

 

This reel can now really stretch its legs.  Everything has been addressed for me to bend it to my will; brakes, spool, and bearings.  I can bomb anything from 1/16 on up completely controlled, and can even cast less than that providing the wind conditions are cooperative and I'm being realistic with the distance I can attain.  It's a fun rig and spends time in the creeks in my area chasing trout and smallmouth.

Thanks for the master's degree level of information.  I always look forward to your posts. 

[FrnkNsteen]

I have only tried aftermarket bearings in one reel.

 

I took a fall in my boat one time and landed on my Tat CT Type R. Hit hard enough that it broke the handle trigger on the rod, slightly bent the handle, and damaged the AR bearing leaving imprints of the roller bearings in the race collar. Brian at Tackle Trap hooked me up with a new AR assembly. While we were at it, I had him send me a set of Hedgehog Air spool bearings.

 

Put everything in and got the reel working nice again. Biggest thing I noticed on the spool bearings was that it cast a little smoother. I oiled the bearings with one drop of Abu oil because I didn't want the dry bearing noise. Can't say that it necessarily casts any farther, but it does feel noticably smoother and easier to cast than it did before the fall.

[PressuredFishing]

7 hours ago, redmeansdistortion said:

The big thing to keep in mind when it comes to bearing upgrades, you're at the mercy of two things.  Your brake and your thumb.  Ideally, you will adjust your braking to get the full potential of your new bearings.  Not just brake setting, but getting in there and actually changing things like adding/removing magnets in the case of Lew's or other Doyo reels, using lighter brake shoes with friction brakes, or in the case of Daiwa, using a different inductor spring or adding another shim to the inductor, or even swapping magnet assemblies.  This is the nitty gritty of reel tuning, getting in there and making real adjustments that alter the character of the reel itself.  The idea is to strike a balance between castability and distance.

 

Here's a case study, a Daiwa Millionaire Ringa SSS that was originally a Magforce Z reel.  I wanted to convert this to a BFS Millionaire.  Where most would simply swap the spool and bearings, I found the performance very lacking.  Here you can see the original magnet assembly on the left, and the new Millionaire CT magnet assembly on the right.  Notice how it's thinner, it will be much more conducive to throwing the small stuff I intend to throw and won't be choked off when I go more than 1/4 brake.

 

The factory magnet assembly was far too strong for finesse fishing.  The reel itself was intended to cast effectively from 3/8 on up, which it did very well.  With a finesse spool and SiC bearings, there was very little range of motion in the braking.  It was all or nothing.  No bearing would've been able to address that since I was at the mercy of the braking system.

 

Here is what I was dealing with.  The top photo below shows the original magnet assembly, and the bottom after the swap.  The cool thing about reels is that so many share platforms that it's often entirely possible to roll your own exactly how you want it.

 

This reel can now really stretch its legs.  Everything has been addressed for me to bend it to my will; brakes, spool, and bearings.  I can bomb anything from 1/16 on up completely controlled, and can even cast less than that providing the wind conditions are cooperative and I'm being realistic with the distance I can attain.  It's a fun rig and spends time in the creeks in my area chasing trout and smallmouth.

How do you like your silver creek rod, have been looking at them for a while now.

[redmeansdistortion]

9 minutes ago, PressuredFishing said:

How do you like your silver creek rod, have been looking at them for a while now.

It's one of my favorites.  I use it for skinny water and for wider streams and rivers I use a Smith Troutin'Spin BC Classic 6'5" ML.  Those are usually what's in tow when I'm spending time in the woods.

[Darth-Baiter]

thanks for the points to ponder.  the guy called and I opted to NOT get the bearings.  maybe next time I U-boat my fishing reel.  

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The benefit of ceramic bearings depends on what you’re starting with and what you’re trying to accomplish. Compared to quality stock bearings like shimano uses that have been flushed and properly oiled, the difference is modest. Corrosion resistance and ease of casting are the main improvements. I find the easier casting improves accuracy and any gained distance is ancillary. 

[Catt]

5 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Corrosion resistance

 

Just a dumb Cajun's opinion

 

Sounds like something someone needs who occasionally dunks their reels in brackish water.

[Darth-Baiter]

1 hour ago, Catt said:

 

Just a dumb Cajun's opinion

 

Sounds like something someone needs who occasionally dunks their reels in brackish water.

Come on. One time!  

 

half the bearing is still corrosive.  

[Catt]

1 hour ago, Darth-Baiter said:

Come on. One time!  

 

half the bearing is still corrosive.  

 

If you're fishing brackish water your line is picking up enough water to cause problems. 

 

80% of the waters I fish are brackish, I do a light to moderate cleaning after every trip.

 

Preventive maintenance 

[Deleted account]

1 hour ago, Darth-Baiter said:

Come on. One time!  

 

half the bearing is still corrosive.  

No, the salt water is corrosive, the bearing race and other components may be prone to oxidation or corrosion based on their composition, but maybe in Rio.....