Ambassadeur C3 Problems?

[MediumMouthBass]

Hello, recently bought a used Abu Garcia Ambassadeur 6500 C3. Ive been using baitcasting reels for awhile but this one has a problem with the spool tension to the point its not able to be used. This reel was bought for using swimbaits around 2-6oz and spooled with 30lb mono, before first use i wanted to check to make sure everything worked but when i tried the spool tension knob it didnt feel like it adjusted right. It goes from Very loose to all the way tight in one small adjustment so i cant gradually tighten it to get the proper tension, i tested it with different lures and even when tightened all the way lures from 1/4oz to 3oz drop at 50 miles per hour to the floor causing birds nests. Tried forums, youtube, taking it apart but cant seem to figure out whats wrong with it. If a 1/4oz crankbait hits the floor at 50mph at the tightest spool tension adjustment im not sure how this will be able to handle 2-6oz swimbaits or any lure. Also found that the shims inside the spool tension cap can be dimpled causing this problem and that flipping it over to the non dimpled side can fix it like new, but that did not work. Im not sure what to do with this reel so if anyone has any advice it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[Tatulatard]

Remove the knob and inspect the washer within.  It is likely that the previous owner used it like a brake and this has dented the washer inside.  I'm not sure what the home remedies are but if it appears dimpled then remove it and beat it flat or flip it and crank back down on the knob. Personally I'm a zero adjust guy on all reels.  Set to remove side to side slop and then adjust it zero times ever  again.

[MediumMouthBass]

Thank you for the reply, already checked the shims and the one has a dimple and i tried to flip it over to the non dimpled side and that didnt work.

[bulldog1935]

You certainly can stack shims - you can get improved BB bullet for the left side - you can get improved spur gear, even BB spur gear for the left side. 

However, the spindle is not required to turn on Ultracast Ambasssadeur. 

I would be looking at new spool bearings.  That discontinued 6-pin centrifugal is a great weightless part, available from many parts suppliers, p/n 1116727 - it works from finesse to 3 oz, and you pick the number of pins. 

No reels are easier to work on than Ambassadeur ultracast. 

 

I also wouldn't depend on spool tension (applied to the spur gear) to stop a 3-oz weight.  Thumb. 

Maybe @Cbump can reply.  I built a 3-oz swimbait 5600 for him. 

The trick casting 3 oz is having enough centrifugal to prevent start-up backlash. 

I'll brag that his reel casts it effortlessly, with zero end tension. 

Lightweight X-deep spool, BB LW upgrades - it responds very well to brake. 

[redmeansdistortion]

Check how many shims you have in the tension knob.  Typically, one or two will be installed.

[MediumMouthBass]

Checked out the inside of the cap and found 3 shims plus 1 felt washer, tried it with 1, 2 , and 3 shims but all resulted in the same thing, the tension knob goes from really loose to all the way tight in one small turn of the knob, and to @bulldog1935 thanks for the new upgrade suggestions, i would like to upgrade this reel for swimbait use but for now im just trying to figure out why a 1/4oz crankbait hits the floor at 50mph on the tightest tension option. Also that picture you posted of the golden spool, that looks much different than what came on the end of the one i have. Its more like a metal line that goes across with 2 small round plastic pieces, would that upgraded part work on all years of the ambassadeur c3 reels? Thank you all for the advice this is my first ambassadeur reel and still just trying to figure it out.

[bulldog1935]

your reel has the 2-pin version of this one. 

The part I showed above is the only one I use on mid-frame Ambassadeurs, finesse to surf. 

Search the ABU part number on ebay, and you'll find US sellers.  They simply snap into the spool, and let you engage and disengage 2 to 6 pins. 

 

[redmeansdistortion]

16 minutes ago, MediumMouthBass said:

Checked out the inside of the cap and found 3 shims plus 1 felt washer, tried it with 1, 2 , and 3 shims but all resulted in the same thing, the tension knob goes from really loose to all the way tight in one small turn of the knob, and to @bulldog1935 thanks for the new upgrade suggestions, i would like to upgrade this reel for swimbait use but for now im just trying to figure out why a 1/4oz crankbait hits the floor at 50mph on the tightest tension option. Also that picture you posted of the golden spool, that looks much different than what came on the end of the one i have. Its more like a metal line that goes across with 2 small round plastic pieces, would that upgraded part work on all years of the ambassadeur c3 reels? Thank you all for the advice this is my first ambassadeur reel and still just trying to figure it out.

You have the older style 2 pin brake.  I'm partial to those since there are different size brake shoes you can get for them.  White are the heaviest and usually how they come from the factory, black shoes are middle weight, and blue are lightweight.  You can also swap to the ultralight fiber blocks as used in the Pro Rocket reels, but you would need a new clutch washer to accommodate that's slightly different from what you have.  Conversely, you can always remove one of the brake shoes you have to achieve a similar effect.  

 

Lastly, did you check your axle to make sure it was snapped into the axle clip that sits on top of the tension cap shim?  The axle is fixed on these unlike the older models that had the spool shaft pressed into the spool.

[MediumMouthBass]

@bulldog1935 thank you for the reply, another question i have but im not sure if you have the answer, theres a o ring that is on the end of the threads that the spool tension cap goes on to and in pictures and videos of others reels the cap goes over the o ring, where on the one i have the cap doesnt even reach the o ring when fully tightened. is it possible that is someone changed the original cap and this one just doesnt fit correctly and that might cause these issues? And to @redmeansdistortion at first i didnt know that i needed to do that but last night i figured it out and am now doing that but still have the same issue with the reel.

[bulldog1935]

@redmeansdistortion - exception with this part - I'm going to ask how many 6500s do you have, 5500s, 4500s...

This is the one.   More versatile than fumbling fiber tubes, and nicer to pinion gear life. 

 

This reel is set up to cast 3 g to 30 g without touching anything. 

 

@MediumMouthBass if your cap is not covering the o-ring, sounds like the Axle clip is lose inside the cap and not seated in the spindle. 

@redmeansdistortion is spot on about checking that. 

Worse case would be a bent spindle that is not going all the way to the left side. 

Most parts you can get on ereplacementparts.com - just not the discontinued 6-pin centrifugal. 

[MediumMouthBass]

Sorry for all the questions, this is my first reel i am planning on upgrading but thank you for all the help, i just took the reel apart and had the side of the reel off and took the spool out, even with the spool out of the reel i tried putting the cap back on and it wouldnt reach the o ring.

[bulldog1935]

then you're getting no end tension - something is probably cross-threaded. 

If necessary, you can probably buy a right side plate - hopefully it's all in the cap threads

 

On an assembled reel, clutch opened, you can check for end contact by side play in the freespool. 

[MediumMouthBass]

I dont know much about the reel or what has been done to it as far as work or modifications but when i try to put the cap on it feels like it may be the wrong cap, either wrong threads or to short. But if i went to buy a used right side plate are they all compatible from different years/decades?

[bulldog1935]

No, you can tell the Ultracast plates (C3 and newer) because they have a hump on the right side. 

The main shaft is longer, with the bellville washers above the A/R sleeve. 

and of course they have the A/R roller bearing press-fit

 

[Cbump]

Well I could reply but I don’t know much about any of It lol. That’s why I sent my reel and a bag of parts to bulldog!

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

There’s not that much that affects the spool tension.  It’s entirely possible that the tension cap has been replaced with an ill fitting one. If the spindle is seated and the spacers are all there, the cap is where I’d concentrate. 

Use this link and see if the parts match what you see. The cap is discontinued. 
 

https://www.ereplacementparts.com/abu-garcia-6500-ambassadeur-parts-c-187196_187197_187496.html

 

 

[MediumMouthBass]

Thank you all for the advice and replies, i now have an idea of some upgrades/modifications as well as some possible fixes for the reels issue, but before i start buying parts for this reel if you guys had around $100 or less budget to upgrade this reel for 2-6oz swimbait use for pike mainly what upgrades would be your choice if this were your reel?

[bulldog1935]

This spool from Rocket Reel Co.

https://www.therocketreelcompany.com/product/tg-f1-tg-f2-rocket-spool-6500-standard-capacity/

as long as you're there, get these bearings

https://www.therocketreelcompany.com/product/abu-replacement-bearings-4mm-x-10mm-x-4mm/

and the 6-pin centifugal I already linked from ebay vendors

ABU part number on ebay,

 

These will give you easy, reliable casts with minimal or zero end tension. 

I would recommend polishing all the spindles and bushings in the level wind and idler gear.  Down the road, consider upgrading those to lighter alloy and ball bearing parts, Zr pawl - all aimed at reducing mass and intertia in the LW, making the reel easier to start, reducing over-shoot tendency, and responding to lower brake. 

https://www.mikesreelrepair.com/abu-dual-bearing-worm-kit-4000-6000/

With zirconia pawl and aluminum rider, this upgrade is $78,

plus another $20 for ball bearing idler gear

https://www.mikesreelrepair.com/abu-dual-bearing-idler-gear-kit/

 

I was trying to get @Cbump to comment on casting his reel.  When I was test-casting it, 2 oz penny weight plus a flag, I had to cast gently to keep it inside my 150' back yard, but I was testing it for backlash (bullet casts to pointlessly high arcs), which it will never backlash.  That was loaded with 22-lb mono. 

[Cbump]

It casts great. Only fished with It once with Bama rig though. Those are kind of awkward to cast. 
I’ll say I put way more money in to this reel than It would have cost to just get a lexa or Tranx. And now I’m wishing I had gone low profile for palmability. 
I do love It though and will probably relegate It to bull red/blue cat/striper use. 

[Steve1357]

Ive had the little washer under the spool bearing under the brakes be flattened, put a little bow back into it and I think your range of adjustment should return. It should have a little bow, spring to it....