New Lews Ti-Pro

[ShyBass]

1 hour ago, PhishLI said:

Nope. The second bearing is shared with the spool. The bushing is non-contact and is there only to support the pinion when the spool is removed.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I think you are misconstruing the second spool bearing as a second pinion bearing. I don't see how the second bearing is "shared" with the pinion because spool bearings do not contact the pinion and only help with free spool. Shimano's x ship technology actually does support the the pinion on both sides, with one bearing on each side. With lew's P2 pinion, the support bushing sits in the same exact location that the second bearing on shimano's x ship sits. Thus, lew's pinions are double supported, but by one bearing and one bushing, not two bearings. 

[PhishLI]

5 hours ago, Shie said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I think you are misconstruing the second spool bearing as a second pinion bearing. I don't see how the second bearing is "shared" with the pinion because spool bearings do not contact the pinion and only help with free spool. Shimano's x ship technology actually does support the the pinion on both sides, with one bearing on each side. With lew's P2 pinion, the support bushing sits in the same exact location that the second bearing on shimano's x ship sits. Thus, lew's pinions are double supported, but by one bearing and one bushing, not two bearings. 

Realize that the larger turned diameter of the spool shaft where the spool bearing is seated also extends into the counterbore of the pinion. The pinion is therefore supported from the inside by this extended shaft, which is then supported by the spool bearing which is seated in a bearing pocket which is cast into the frame. Hence, the pinion is supported on that end while under cranking load, which is what we like. The other end of the pinion is an extended turned diameter which is received by a bearing in the handle side-plate. Quantum has been using the same scheme for years in their better models, and like I mentioned earlier, the bushing you see in the Lew's schematic does not support the pinion. It's I.D. is larger than the pinion's O.D. AFAIK, it's there to keep the pinion from wandering too much if someone cranks the handle while the spool is removed.

 

So, while the pinion isn't supported by its O.D. with a discreet bearing nested into the frame, it's nevertheless supported just the same by the larger diameter of the spool shaft right next to the spool bearing. Think of it as shared-support if you like, but just as if it had a discreet bearing, the pinion will not repel away from the main gear under load. This section is rigid, and it's all locked in by the spool bearing captured by the frame. It accomplishes the goal of dual support, albeit in an economical fashion. Like Quantum reels, the O.D. of the long section of the spool shaft is smaller than the I.D. of the pinion, so zero friction is achieved while in free-spool. This is not my opinion. It is an observable fact. Perhaps this is less easy to understand if you're simply examining the schematic? Take one apart for yourself and it will be clear.

 

 

[msgf91]

The Ti reels and the Abu Zenons are similar for me. I want to get one of them but the price is a bit up there and there's no tear downs or reviews. Lew's is coming out with their BFS reel so I wonder if Abu will bring over the jdm Zenon BFS reel too. 

[ShyBass]

14 hours ago, PhishLI said:

So, while the pinion isn't supported by its O.D. with a discreet bearing nested into the frame, it's nevertheless supported just the same by the larger diameter of the spool shaft right next to the spool bearing. Think of it as shared-support if you like, but just as if it had a discreet bearing, the pinion will not repel away from the main gear under load. 

 

I stand corrected; doyo pinions are dual supported in some manner, just not by two bearings sitting directly on the OD of the pinion. I am not contending that the spool shaft, which is itself fitted with a bearing, does not support the pinion. In that case, any reel with a long spool shaft and a spool bearing would have a pinion that is "dually supported by bearings." AFAIK, the general connotations of "dual supported pinion" and certainly "dual bearing-supported pinion" mean a pinion that is directly supported by two bearings on the pinion's OD, one on each side of the pinion. That's what shimano means regarding "dual pinion support," per their x ship technology, and that's the definition of that I've come accustomed to. Not merely one bearing support + the support from the long spool shaft.

 

If you're counting reels with a long spool shaft and a spool shaft bearing as being reels with "dual supported pinions," then shimano pinions with x ship are triple-bearing supported (one handle sideplate bearing + one bearing where the bushing on the lew's exists + the long spool shaft/spool bearing support you talk of). 

 

I have taken apart my lew's custom lite right alongside my metanium and the lew's clearly lacks the second, OD pinion support bearing that is known as "x ship" on shimano reels. Instead of using a bearing in that location, doyo uses a bushing. Whether doyos are dual supported by a particular standard (if counting the spool shaft bearing as a second bearing support), a "dual bearing supported pinion" connotes a pinion that is supported by two bearings that sit directly on the OD of the pinion, one on each side of the pinion. Doyos clearly lack that second pinion-support bearing. 

[PhishLI]

22 minutes ago, Shie said:

Whether doyos are dual supported by a particular standard (if counting the spool shaft bearing as a second bearing support), a "dual bearing supported pinion" connotes a pinion that is supported by two bearings that sit directly on the OD of the pinion, one on each side of the pinion. Doyos clearly lack that second pinion-support bearing. 

All Lew's did circa '20  in the P2 reels was to extend the pinion to reach a handle side plate bearing. The pinion's thru-hole is larger than the spool's shaft enough to where the spool shaft doesn't act as a support for the pinion like it does in a standard Tatula or SLX.  Once again, the bushing in the Lew's where you see a bearing on a FFS Daiwa or a Shimano X-ships supports nothing in the Lew's. The clearance is too great.

[Cbump]

Anyone else think it’s funny to worry about stuff like this to catch majority 1-3 lb fish, occasional 5 pounder, and MAYBE a trophy DD? 
There’s not a bass out there you can’t catch with or without whatever pinion thing y’all talking about. Lol 

[PhishLI]

On 3/25/2023 at 3:50 PM, Shie said:

And for those reasons, I'm out. 

P.S. I'm not encouraging you to buy what you otherwise wouldn't because of one position/perception or the other, however, I'll say this:  I've been flogging my 2020 Tournament Pro LFS (P2 version) for 3 years in ridiculously choked out waters which are nearly all topped out with thick milfoil, tons of pads, water chestnut, etc. While it's true that all of my most-used reels get serviced more often than usual, this reel has held up just fine. Pretty much feels as it did when I got it, and it's had straight braid on it from day one. It's easily one of my top 3 most used reels as far as time in my hands goes because I like its casting/braking system that much. It isn't now and never was Bantam or Zillion G smooth, but it's not bad either. I've had non P2 Doyos go geary after jacking in a few 5 pounders through the junk. I've caught quite a few very solid fish on the TP LFS and it remains unaffected, even with its aluminum main gear.

[PhishLI]

28 minutes ago, Cbump said:

Anyone else think it’s funny to worry about stuff like this to catch majority 1-3 lb fish, occasional 5 pounder, and MAYBE a trophy DD? 
There’s not a bass out there you can’t catch with or without whatever pinion thing y’all talking about. Lol 

It's just gear nerd stuff. I don't have a single fishing friend who gives the first flying fudge about the mechanics of reels, but I find it interesting, so when I find a willing dance partner, we dance. I appreciate that @Shie took the time to contribute to this subject.

 

At the very least, talks like these may serve to expand understanding for people who have a passing interest. At best, clarity might be brought to specific information which is otherwise misunderstood.

[Tatulatard]

Agree.  This was good.  I now understand the purpose of the lews bushing.  Fundamentally the pinion support remains unchanged.  It's a feature for when the spool is out of the reel.

[ShyBass]

1 hour ago, PhishLI said:

All Lew's did circa '20  in the P2 reels was to extend the pinion to reach a handle side plate bearing. The pinion's thru-hole is larger than the spool's shaft enough to where the spool shaft doesn't act as a support for the pinion like it does in a standard Tatula or SLX.  Once again, the bushing in the Lew's where you see a bearing on a FFS Daiwa or a Shimano X-ships supports nothing in the Lew's. The clearance is too great.

Thanks for this clarity. I own a couple pre-P2 lew's and a custom lite myself and this makes the difference clearer, although my pre-P2 lew's didn't come with the bushing. I do like my shimanos/daiwas better, but it's not like I dislike the lew's/doyos that I own. I just wish they came with another support bearing like the x ship shimanos. I appreciate you taking the time to entertain my thoughts.

 

1 hour ago, Cbump said:

Anyone else think it’s funny to worry about stuff like this to catch majority 1-3 lb fish, occasional 5 pounder, and MAYBE a trophy DD? 
There’s not a bass out there you can’t catch with or without whatever pinion thing y’all talking about. Lol 

Perhaps. I just like to go down the rabbit hole sometimes. Also as @PhishLI said, contributing to the subject will only clarify questions for future users, which is one of the reasons I decided to start contributing instead of speculating. 

[Huckfinn38]

So I played around with mine for a bit, took it out yesterday.

Pros love the handle, it casts really good, and is a beautiful reel. 
cons feels cheap to me in hand, not a fan of the lever to access sideplate (feels cheap), and lastly the retrieve is not as smooth as you would expect for a $400 reel. To me my Bantam A at $350 is a much better reel even though its heavy. 

I honestly like the gen 1 better and I returned my gen 2 this morning.