Baitcasting setup for lighter weight lures?

[Recurve1]

Hi folks,

I fish mainly for river smallmouth with a spinning setup,  lures range from 1/16 - 1/2 oz.  I have almost zero experience with baitcasters but would like to get a baitcasting setup for retrieval type lures - buzzbaits, spinnerbaits, small crankbaits, and in-line spinners weighing 1/8 - 3/8 oz.  The reason for this is to avoid line twist - I do use a swivel with my spinning gear but still have some issues. Looking at a shimano SLX reel (MGL or XT) and a Mojo bass 6'8 MF rod.  Do you suggest some other gear better suited to my intended use?

What do you guys use and what else should I look at for this purpose?

Thanks

[waymont]

Dobyns Champion 702 with a Daiwa Tatula 70.

Not sure how well it will cast a true 1/16oz bait, but around 3/16oz to 1/2oz it will shine.

Put 20lb braid on this rig and it will be very versatile. 702 rods are around $200 right now on tackle warehouse!

[Tatulatard]

39 minutes ago, Recurve1 said:

Hi folks,

I fish mainly for river smallmouth with a spinning setup,  lures range from 1/16 - 1/2 oz.  I have almost zero experience with baitcasters but would like to get a baitcasting setup for retrieval type lures - buzzbaits, spinnerbaits, small crankbaits, and in-line spinners weighing 1/8 - 3/8 oz.  The reason for this is to avoid line twist - I do use a swivel with my spinning gear but still have some issues. Looking at a shimano SLX reel (MGL or XT) and a Mojo bass 6'8 MF rod.  Do you suggest some other gear better suited to my intended use?

What do you guys use and what else should I look at for this purpose?

Thanks

That pairing would work out well for 1/4 to 3/8 oz weight.  I have a 68m mojo and have cast down to 1/7 oz ned heads and trds.  It might be capable of lower but you would be better off with a ml rod if you want to cast true 1/8 oz baits. 

[FryDog62]

If you regularly throw 1/16-1/8 oz lures, I would go with the Curado BFS reel. If mostly 3/16 oz and heavier, then a non-BFS reel will be very good although you will struggle when throwing lighter. Either way, I would go longer - 6'10" to 7'1" on the rod to get some added distance without losing much if any accuracy.  A lot of people think a baitcaster is a little more accurate than spinning.

[Recurve1]

Thanks folks - appreciate the thoughts.  I mostly cast 1/8 - 3/8 range.  I see the SLX reel also comes in a BFS model.  Also just read about the Phenix Feather rod on this forum - it comes in a L and ML model at 7'1" - that may be the rod to get.

 

Keep the thoughts coming.

Additionally that rod and SLX would keep my cost to around $300 which is about my max for this.

[FryDog62]

54 minutes ago, Recurve1 said:

Phenix Feather rod on this forum - it comes in a L and ML model at 7'1" - that may be the rod to get.

I have both models of that rod and it is one of the better at that price point. I would say the ML Phenix Feather is similar in power/action to many Medium spinning rods. The Light's rating is about spot on and a great pairing with the Curado BFS. 

[dodgeguy]

Team Lew's pro sp makes an awesome bfs reel. There's a video of a guy throwing really light finesse lures on light flourocarbon with it. The reel had no problem tossing baits you wouldn't think it could.

[Aaron_H]

5 hours ago, Recurve1 said:

Hi folks,

I fish mainly for river smallmouth with a spinning setup,  lures range from 1/16 - 1/2 oz.  I have almost zero experience with baitcasters but would like to get a baitcasting setup for retrieval type lures - buzzbaits, spinnerbaits, small crankbaits, and in-line spinners weighing 1/8 - 3/8 oz.  The reason for this is to avoid line twist - I do use a swivel with my spinning gear but still have some issues. Looking at a shimano SLX reel (MGL or XT) and a Mojo bass 6'8 MF rod.  Do you suggest some other gear better suited to my intended use?

What do you guys use and what else should I look at for this purpose?

Thanks

 

If you do go with the SLX line, make sure it's the MGL over the XT for those lighter lures. You won't cast those ultra lightweight ones, that's BFS territory, but the 1/8-3/8 range will shine with it. The XT struggles a bit with lighter lures compared to the standard SLX, and the MGL is leagues ahead of both of them IMO.

[bulldog1935]

There's a lot of 1/8-oz tackle mentioned on this thread. 

When I fished Lew's Super Duty and Lew's SP side-by-side with 1/8 oz, the mag-brake Super Duty cast farther and more reliably. 

 

I routinely fish 1/16-oz on 5 baitcasters from streams to tide passes, and I'd raise the ante to get a JDM Daiwa Alphas Air TW, $245 (shipped) from Digitaka or Asian Portal (ebay). 

Then I'd look for an inexpensive wide-range BFS rod to round out the budget. 

https://baitfinesseempire.com/product/shimano-majestic-rod-series/

A friend just bought one with a higher-grade rod, and went right to fishing 1/16 oz.  He also found it backlash-proof with the light lures and threadline braid. 

 

This isn't the reel - a BFS-raced Zillion - but the idea. 

 

Since rod length and cast distance with 1/16 oz was raised, my 6'7" bass finesse casting rod is an easy 90-100', 

5'5" stream rod is an easy 70' - twice what you need for stream fishing. 

My long salt finesse rods, optimized at 8'2" will send the 1/16 oz past 130', where it's often needed. 

Also, the way to read cast distance is inverse cast effort - an effortless cast is a reliable cast. 

[Big Hands]

9 hours ago, FryDog62 said:

If you regularly throw 1/16-1/8 oz lures, I wold go with the Curado BFS reel. If mostly 3/16 oz and heavier, then a non-BFS reel will be very good although will struggle when throwing lighter. Either way, I would go longer - 6'10" to 7'1" on the rod to get some added distance without losing much if any accuracy.  

 

Agreed.

 

10 hours ago, Recurve1 said:

I fish mainly for river smallmouth with a spinning setup,  lures range from 1/16 - 1/2 oz.  I have almost zero experience with baitcasters but would like to get a baitcasting setup for retrieval type lures - buzzbaits, spinnerbaits, small crankbaits, and in-line spinners weighing 1/8 - 3/8 oz.  The reason for this is to avoid line twist - I do use a swivel with my spinning gear but still have some issues. Looking at a shimano SLX reel (MGL or XT) and a Mojo bass 6'8 MF rod.  Do you suggest some other gear better suited to my intended use?

What do you guys use and what else should I look at for this purpose?

 

I love my SLX 70 MGL, and it does great for 1/4 oz to even up to 3/4 oz baits. For what the OP is wanting, I would also go with Curado BFS (of which I own two) those baits I would characterize as 'BFS-ish' (1/16 to 1/2 ounce covers that range). Even 1/16 ounce total bait weight is not a total slam dunk if you need distance (and I say that not knowing if anything will actually do that). If you're using a 1/16 weight with additional materials attached, then the Curado BFS will be solid.

 

As for rods, it's much like any other niche. I have two Curado BFS rigs. 7'1" L/F and ML/F Phenix Feather rods. If I'm going to throw something in the 3/8 or 1/2 oz range, definitely the ML/F. Small buzzbaits and spinnerbaits would fall in this category, especially with a trailer. If those are definitely part of your routine, I'd go with the ML/F. If you're mostly going with baits at the lighter range of the spectrum, then maybe the L/F will serve you better.

 

I am generally more of a fan of rods longer than 6'8" (more like 7' for me), but you may have your reasons and they may have their place with some of these new BFS reels with lighter baits. I have been at this since 5'6" rods with pistol grips were the norm and have been happier with the evolution of longer rods. I used  to wonder why they weren't the norm. I do notice that many BFS enthusiasts prefer shorter rods for true BFS combos. I may still pull out one of my shorter rods and try them with one of my Curado BFS reels just to see what happens.

 

I can't say with any certainty that a longer rod is always better from personal experience in this BFS-ish situation because I have not yet tried it with these particular reels. A rod, a reel, a bait/lure, and the line are all part of a system. If you change one, it might significantly affect how the other parts of that system work.

 

5 hours ago, FryDog62 said:

I have both models of that rod and it is one of the better at that price point. I would say the ML Phenix Feather is similar in power/action to many Medium spinning rods. The Light's rating is about spot on and a great pairing with the Curado BFS. 

 

Phenix doesn't offer a M/F Feather casting rod. I also have a MH/F in that line and I would say it's a little underpowered compared to my MH/F Tatula casting rod. Maybe they split the difference with the ML/F and MH/F. I don't have any other ML/F casting rods to compare it to.

[FishTank]

I have the Dobyns Sierra Ultra Finesse 700 and it will work with those weights just fine. Any BFS reel will do the trick. I would not use the Mojo mentioned. To me, it would be too heavy for 1/8oz lures.

 

 

[Recurve1]

Appreciate all the help and responses.  I just weighed my most used lures and they are in the 3/16 - 3/8 oz range. Includes small buzzbaits and spinnerbaits, rapala minnows and small crankbaits, leadhead jig hooks with twistertails and paddletail plastic lures.

Rarely will I use a lighter (0.08 - 0.09 oz) or heavier (1/2 oz) lure but I can use my ultralight spin rod or my old BPS bionic blade casting rod (6.5' MH) for those  ends of the spectrum.

 

Given that most lures are  3/16  - 3/8 oz I think the Curado or SLX reels in the BFS version would be the best reel.  now for the rod - probably the Feather L over the ML?  your thought?

thanks

[softwateronly]

On 12/8/2022 at 4:37 PM, bulldog1935 said:

There's a lot of 1/8-oz tackle mentioned on this thread. 

When I fished Lew's Super Duty and Lew's SP side-by-side with 1/8 oz, the mag-brake Super Duty cast farther and more reliably. 

 

I routinely fish 1/16-oz on 5 baitcasters from streams to tide passes, and I'd raise the ante to get a JDM Daiwa Alphas Air TW, $245 (shipped) from Digitaka or Asian Portal (ebay). 

Then I'd look for an inexpensive wide-range BFS rod to round out the budget. 

https://baitfinesseempire.com/product/shimano-majestic-rod-series/

A friend just bought one with a higher-grade rod, and went right to fishing 1/16 oz.  He also found it backlash-proof with the light lures and threadline braid. 

 

This isn't the reel - a BFS-raced Zillion - but the idea. 

 

Since rod length and cast distance with 1/16 oz was raised, my 6'7" bass finesse casting rod is an easy 90-100', 

5'5" stream rod is an easy 70' - twice what you need for stream fishing. 

My long salt finesse rods, optimized at 8'2" will send the 1/16 oz past 130', where it's often needed. 

Also, the way to read cast distance is inverse cast effort - an effortless cast is a reliable cast. 

I have a 7’1 Phenix ML on the way thanks to BF and in a similar spot as the OP. What’s the main differences between the Alpha tw Sv 800 and the Air?  I plan on throwing 20lb power pro super slick at first because I have it. Most of my thoughts for this combo are 1/8-1/2oz but there’s a couple 1/16 float flys I want to possibly add in for schoolers. 70’ would be my ideal. 
 

scott

[redmeansdistortion]

1 hour ago, softwateronly said:

I have a 7’1 Phenix ML on the way thanks to BF and in a similar spot as the OP. What’s the main differences between the Alpha tw Sv 800 and the Air?  I plan on throwing 20lb power pro super slick at first because I have it. Most of my thoughts for this combo are 1/8-1/2oz but there’s a couple 1/16 float flys I want to possibly add in for schoolers. 70’ would be my ideal. 
 

scott

Are those float flies a true 1/16 or will it be more fully rigged?  The SV800 has a relatively "heavy" spool at 12g which will make it perform down to 1/8 at the very minimum, but 3/16 will be completely fine.  The older Alphas SV105 had a lighter 11g spool and did very well throwing 1/8, and the Alphas CT SV came with an 8g spool that would go 1/16 no problem with a half spool of line.  I feel with SV800 considering the spool weight, the Phenix 7'1" L would better help it get in that 1/8 range versus the ML.

[bulldog1935]

@softwateronly

The Alphas SV TW 800 is probably just right for you, and it's aimed at 10-fluoro - 80 m (90 yds) capacity.   Jun Sonata rates it to cast 3.5 g, which is 1/8 oz.  My Steez and Zillion cast 1/8 oz fine on 10-lb fluoro. 

 

Alphas Air has a lower mass and shallower spool, rated to cast 2 g -  also has a faster LW pitch to let you use really fine threadline braid without the risk of line dig. Alphas Air spool capacity is 45 m PE#1, or 75 m PE#0.6 

 

There's also a '22 JDM Alphas SV TW 800S that fits right between the two, and is rated to cast 2 g.  Capacity is 90 yds 6-lb fluoro (just right for 20-lb Power Pro).   

 

Here's the Japan line diameter chart up to PE#1.2 - Japan X-braid is going to be about twice the strength of Power Pro for the same diameter. 

You could always consider an aftermarket spool to swap in Alphas just for the light stuff.  Ray's Studio makes an SV spool that has wide upper end - take a look at my Zillion.  I have three 34-mm Daiwas that swap spools, and I have aftermarket spools from Ray's Studio, Roro-X, and AMO, plus the stock Daiwa G1 spools.  I can fish down to PE#0.8 on Steez and Zillion - there's rarely a need to go smaller.  The Roro and AMO spools aren't made to cast more than about 10 g, but they push the distance edge casting 2 g. 

[softwateronly]

45 minutes ago, redmeansdistortion said:

Are those float flies a true 1/16 or will it be more fully rigged?  The SV800 has a relatively "heavy" spool at 12g which will make it perform down to 1/8 at the very minimum, but 3/16 will be completely fine.  The older Alphas SV105 had a lighter 11g spool and did very well throwing 1/8, and the Alphas CT SV came with an 8g spool that would go 1/16 no problem with a half spool of line.  I feel with SV800 considering the spool weight, the Phenix 7'1" L would better help it get in that 1/8 range versus the ML.

 

40 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

@softwateronly

The Alphas SV TW 800 is probably just right for you, and it's aimed at 10-fluoro - 80 m (90 yds) capacity.   Jun Sonata rates it to cast 3.5 g, which is 1/8 oz.  My Steez and Zillion cast 1/8 oz fine on 10-lb fluoro. 

 

Alphas Air has a lower mass and shallower spool, rated to cast 2 g -  also has a faster LW pitch to let you use really fine threadline braid without the risk of line dig. Alphas Air spool capacity is 45 m PE#1, or 75 m PE#0.6 

 

There's also a '22 JDM Alphas SV TW 800S that fits right between the two, and is rated to cast 2 g.  Capacity is 90 yds 6-lb.   

 

Here's the Japan line diameter chart up to PE#1.2 - Japan X-braid is going to be about twice the strength of Power Pro for the same diameter. 

You could always consider an aftermarket spool to swap in Alphas just for the light stuff.  Ray's Studio makes an SV spool that has wide upper end - take a look at my Zillion.  I have three 34-mm Daiwas that swap spools, and I have aftermarket spools from Ray's Studio, Roro-X, and AMO, plus the stock Daiwa G1 spools.  I can fish down to PE#0.8 on Steez and Zillion - there's rarely a need to go smaller.  The Roro and AMO spools aren't made to cast more than about 10 g, but they push the distance edge casting 2 g. 

 

Really appreciate the knowledge you two, and everyone else, are willing to share.  A lot of this is very foreign to me and probably others as well.  My original post was supposed to be about the '22 JDM Alphas SV TW 800S vs the '20 Air TW, but Diawa's naming system still gets me at times and I forgot the S, which I assume means "shallow".  With this info, feels like the 800S and PE#.8 might slot in nicely at a price I'm more looking to spend.  I currently do most of my catching leaning toward power fishing, but I always want to get better.  And it wasn't too long ago that I used to only fish spinning and now, I'm looking for every reason to leave them behind.  I think I overcorrected, haha.  Many thanks...

 

scott

[Seaworthy81]

I fish a SLX MGL with 12lb fluro mostly throwing 3/16-1/4 hard baits and it’s a dream of a reel for this. Long smooth casts. I fish it on a 13 fate cranking rod. Love it for peacocks and LMB where I’m at. 

[ska4fun]

Reel: Alphas CT SV

[warefisher]

Good info on this thread.  So in general, if throwing a bait in the 1/8th oz range (1/10 ned jig head plus bait), an unmodified Alpha 800S and an unmodified Zillion SV TW might be fairly equal in casting distance?  Maybe a slight edge to the Alpha 800S with the shallow spool but both would cast well?

How would either of these reels perform on a BFS rod, like the Dobyns Sierra 7’er?

[Armin J]

Falcon Lowrider MHF (All Around)

SLX MGL

 

As good as it gets for real light stuff.. up to 1/4 weight+ plastic.. I mostly fish 1/16 + trick work.. I can sling it 30 yards with great accuracy.. 

[bulldog1935]

58 minutes ago, warefisher said:

Good info on this thread.  So in general, if throwing a bait in the 1/8th oz range (1/10 ned jig head plus bait), an unmodified Alpha 800S and an unmodified Zillion SV TW might be fairly equal in casting distance?  Maybe a slight edge to the Alpha 800S with the shallow spool but both would cast well?

How would either of these reels perform on a BFS rod, like the Dobyns Sierra 7’er?

Because the 800S shallow spool will keep mass down, it should have both distance and reliability advantage.  Sounds like a Perfect combo - the reel will get everything out of that rod. 

Alphas Air would only be an advantage for 1/16 oz distance. A lot of inshore guys are picking these up for tiny winter baits. 

 

My BFS-raced Zillion is in inshore ML, PE#1.2, 7'1" Omen Green ML, and it casts 1/8 oz into next week without ever a backlash - in that case, it's about light spool+line mass and SV brake.  A big advantage over the Zillion G1 Boost spool, which works, but not to such extremes at that light lure weight. 

[warefisher]

17 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

 

My BFS-raced Zillion is in inshore ML, PE#1.2, 7'1" Omen Green ML, and it casts 1/8 oz into next week without ever a backlash - in that case, it's about light spool+line mass and SV brake.  A big advantage over the Zillion G1 Boost spool, which works, but not to such extremes at that light lure weight. 

I have two JDM Zillions, recently purchased and yet to be used, and am considering a third.  I’d like to convert one to BFS with a light & shallow spool but am still not confident I’ll order the correct components.  There are many choices discussed on this forum.  What’s the best but also safest way to go?  Lots of info on YouTube also.  Mostly helpful but a bit confusing.  Knowledge overload.  I’ll be brave and give it go.  Can always convert back and have a great reel.  I do like finesse fishing for Canadian smallmouth and am getting away from spinning gear, in spite of a recently purchased JDM Certate!  That JDM monkey thing that I discovered on here.

[ska4fun]

3 hours ago, warefisher said:

Good info on this thread.  So in general, if throwing a bait in the 1/8th oz range (1/10 ned jig head plus bait), an unmodified Alpha 800S and an unmodified Zillion SV TW might be fairly equal in casting distance?  Maybe a slight edge to the Alpha 800S with the shallow spool but both would cast well?

How would either of these reels perform on a BFS rod, like the Dobyns Sierra 7’er?

 

Zillion, even with SV spool, isn't a lightweight lure caster, but more of a medium-heavyweight one. The magforce Z on it has a higher spin threshold, before the inductor cup activation. The Alphas 800S will be way more efficient.

[bulldog1935]

@warefisher I sent you a pm on very limited remaining stock. 

 

 

 

 

[warefisher]

31 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

@warefisher I sent you a pm on very limited remaining stock. 

 

 

 

 

Got it & thank you!