Nuke Fish

[TOXIC]

I am lucky enough to have access to a 3,000 acre series of lakes connected by canals with feeder creeks that are large and serve as a cooling system for a nuclear power plant.  The whole system was put together back in the 70’s where there is a 13,000 acre public lake (cold side) that serves as the intake for the power plant and the 3,000 acre private side (hot side) that serves as the cooling side for the reactor water. The 2 sides are separated by 3 dikes and has one return point blocked by a low bridge.  The hot side offers up good fishing in our cold weather months even though it seems the average size of the fish stays relatively small.  I have fished this lake for years and some of the older fishermen I know talked about how is used to have very good sized largemouth in the 5-8lb range.  They are now very scarce and believe me, we have fished it every way imaginable.  It’s just nice to be able to get out on cold winter days and catch 50-60 fish apiece on a good selection of baits.  Saturday was one of those days where we caught them on Ned’s, dropshot, cranks, blades and Senkos.  Water was in the mid 60’s depending how far up in the creek arms we went.  

[TnRiver46]

Tva no longer does hot water discharge. They used to, but had a few ecological disasters. They were great fishing from what I was told but one of their disasters ruined a stretch of river for a while so I guess it’s a trade off 

[Woody B]

One of the lakes I fish on has nuke cooling, as well as cooling for a hybrid coal/natural gas power plant.  The nuke is pretty much always running.  There's current at the intake.  My Sister in Law lives 1/4 mile from the intake.  The discharge is usually a couple degrees warmer than the rest of the lake.   I *think* there's a cooling pond where the water sits after being discharged from the reactors.   Access is limited....there's a barrier blocking access to the discharge from the main lake.  You can see water coming out though.   

 

When the coal/natural gas plant is running (not often) the discharge water is as much as 5 degrees warmer than the rest of the lake.  I suspect the cooling pond/storage for the nuke plant is bigger than the coal plant.   I don't know if anyone is allowed access to the cooling ponds.    I believe all of these plants use steam turbines to generate electricity.  The nuke use nuclear to generate the steam.  The hybrid plant use coal, and natural gas to heat the water.   

 

(I think this is how they work)

 

We're lucky here in the Carolinas to have plenty of capacity to generate electricity.   There's an "emergency" plant a couple miles from my house that uses natural gas turbines.  It's for high demand times.  It's only in use once or twice a year.   

 

Duke Power has hydro plants all around, built as much as 100 years ago.   I believe they do this other places but I know for a fact that they pump water from Lake Keowee back into Lake Jocassee during non peak times to run the hydro generators multiple times with the same water.  They also pump water from Jocassee back into Bad Creek to re use it.   

 

I suspect they do this with some other lakes, but I'm not sure which ones.   

[Tennessee Boy]

46 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Tva no longer does hot water discharge. 

Well they do from at least one of their coal powered plants.  I noticed for the first time about a month ago that the surface temp near the plant was 73 degrees when it had been in the low 60s all day.   As I passed the plant going upstream it quickly dropped back down to 62.  This was on Old Hickory lake which has the only population of Tilapia in Tennessee.  A few fish survive each winter in the warm water around the power plant.

[TnRiver46]

3 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Well they do from at least one of their coal powered plants.  I noticed for the first time about a month ago that the surface temp near the plant was 73 degrees when it had been in the low 60s all day.   As I passed the plant going upstream it quickly dropped back down to 62.  This was on Old Hickory lake which has the only population of Tilapia in Tennessee.  A few fish survived each winter in the warm water around the power plant.

Ah yes I’ve heard of the Gallatin steam plant. Didn’t know it was TVA though, I thought everything was army corps out there 

[Tennessee Boy]

19 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Ah yes I’ve heard of the Gallatin steam plant. Didn’t know it was TVA though, I thought everything was army corps out there 

It’s definitely a TVA plant.  The Army Corps built the dam and manages the lake but TVA built and runs the steam plant.

 

https://www.tva.com/Energy/Our-Power-System/Coal/Gallatin-Fossil-Plant

 

[TnRiver46]

When cooling ponds go wrong……..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Fossil_Plant_coal_fly_ash_slurry_spill

[Bluebasser86]

I fish one coal power plant lake an one nuclear power plant lake during the winter months. They're a blessing to escape the winter months. 

[Eric 26]

Although I do not own a boat and therefore never fish Lake Michigan, I haul fly ash for a concrete company as part of my job. We get it directly on the shores of Lake Michigan and I love walking the 15 feet to the fence line looking at some of the biggest Salmon and Brown Trout I’ll probably never fish for. On several occasions this year I’ve witnessed fishermen/fisherwomen battle and land some pretty impressive fish. John Gillespie of “Wisconsin Waters& Woods” does/has done a few shows on the same stretch of water. I hope I don’t get in trouble for mentioning the tv show?

2 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

When cooling ponds go wrong……..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Fossil_Plant_coal_fly_ash_slurry_spill

This is truly scary and sad.

[TnRiver46]

5 minutes ago, Eric 26 said:

Although I do not own a boat and therefore never fish Lake Michigan, I haul fly ash for a concrete company as part of my job. We get it directly on the shores of Lake Michigan and I love walking the 15 feet to the fence line looking at some of the biggest Salmon and Brown Trout I’ll probably never fish for. On several occasions this year I’ve witnessed fishermen/fisherwomen battle and land some pretty impressive fish. John Gillespie of “Wisconsin Waters& Woods” does/has done a few shows on the same stretch of water. I hope I don’t get in trouble for mentioning the tv show?

This is truly scary and sad.

It was that sludge you’re hauling. Coal fly ash. Apparently there’s a good bit of arsenic in it, killed all manner of fish and turtles and somehow moved houses 

[Eric 26]

16 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

It was that sludge you’re hauling. Coal fly ash. Apparently there’s a good bit of arsenic in it, killed all manner of fish and turtles and somehow moved houses 

We don’t haul the sludge. We get it in powder form, think the consistency of flour. It’s hauled in enclosed tank trailers   The power company doesn’t mess around when it comes to overflow or spills, they have a team of laborers there cleaning it up before you can even call to let someone know what happened.

[Fastbee]

17 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

When cooling ponds go wrong……..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Fossil_Plant_coal_fly_ash_slurry_spill

That's not even remotely the same thing and I don't believe it played any part in the stoppage of most warm water discharges.  I seem to remember the state permits for discharge water expired for the nuke/coal plants and the TVA had trouble meeting the tighter temperature ranges or something like that. I don't recall any disasters around here caused by warm water discharges... 

[Sam]

19 hours ago, TOXIC said:

I am lucky enough to have access to a 3,000 acre series of lakes connected by canals with feeder creeks that are large and serve as a cooling system for a nuclear power plant.  The whole system was put together back in the 70’s where there is a 13,000 acre public lake (cold side) that serves as the intake for the power plant and the 3,000 acre private side (hot side) that serves as the cooling side for the reactor water. The 2 sides are separated by 3 dikes and has one return point blocked by a low bridge.  The hot side offers up good fishing in our cold weather months even though it seems the average size of the fish stays relatively small.  I have fished this lake for years and some of the older fishermen I know talked about how is used to have very good sized largemouth in the 5-8lb range.  They are now very scarce and believe me, we have fished it every way imaginable.  It’s just nice to be able to get out on cold winter days and catch 50-60 fish apiece on a good selection of baits.  Saturday was one of those days where we caught them on Ned’s, dropshot, cranks, blades and Senkos.  Water was in the mid 60’s depending how far up in the creek arms we went.  

Yes, for some reason the big ones have disappeared. Happened a few years ago. I hate cold weather so I am not plannig to fish the hot side of Lake A this year. You fish for me and catch one or two of those big ladies that are hiding out there, somewhere. Good luck and be safe.

[TnRiver46]

23 minutes ago, Fastbee said:

That's not even remotely the same thing and I don't believe it played any part in the stoppage of most warm water discharges.  I seem to remember the state permits for discharge water expired for the nuke/coal plants and the TVA had trouble meeting the tighter temperature ranges or something like that. I don't recall any disasters around here caused by warm water discharges... 

the disaster in that picture was in Kingston at a warm water discharge? 
 

not a Nuke but there are nukes downstream 

 

browns ferry was the main offender it seems for hot water. They kept getting in trouble for putting out 90+ degree water 

 

[TOXIC]

1 hour ago, Sam said:

Yes, for some reason the big ones have disappeared. Happened a few years ago. I hate cold weather so I am not plannig to fish the hot side of Lake A this year. You fish for me and catch one or two of those big ladies that are hiding out there, somewhere. Good luck and be safe.

We can get a few big girls every year but it’s not common.  A lot of the fish we caught were on a dropshot or blade bait in 40ft of water in pool 1. We have a set pattern we run to try and get an idea where they are holding.  Lately they have been in the deeper holes.  

[J Francho]

There's a warm water discharge very close to me on Lake Ontario. I used to fish it as a teen. After 9/11, you can't get anywhere near it. Fishing was ridiculous there. Cast after cast, smallmouth and rock bass on. 

[TOXIC]

9 minutes ago, J Francho said:

There's a warm water discharge very close to me on Lake Ontario. I used to fish it as a teen. After 9/11, you can't get anywhere near it. Fishing was ridiculous there. Cast after cast, smallmouth and rock bass on. 

At this lake it seems to be catfish that school up and you can catch 20-30 in a row.  Weird thing is, there’s never any big bruisers.  There’s big stripers, some good sized bass, a lot of white perch but you would think with the longer growing season and constant water temps there’d be some monsters. 

[J Francho]

Keep in mind they're metabolism is increased exponentially, so there needs to be an incredible amount of food to support the growth. 

[Fastbee]

3 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

the disaster in that picture was in Kingston at a warm water discharge? 
 

not a Nuke but there are nukes downstream 

 

browns ferry was the main offender it seems for hot water. They kept getting in trouble for putting out 90+ degree water 

 

It wasn't at a warm water discharge at all. The fly ash was from burning the coal. It is mixed with water when captured in the scrubbers and transferred to holding ponds to prepare it for final removal. One of the pond dams broke, allowing the slurry to escape into the river. It was never designed to be discharged the way it was and the warm water discharge is a totally independent process.  I live a few miles from the Kingston and Bull Run steam plants. There is limited warm water discharge from each but not like it used to be (frequency of discharge as well as temperature of water). 

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, Fastbee said:

It wasn't at a warm water discharge at all. The fly ash was from burning the coal. It is mixed with water when captured in the scrubbers and transferred to holding ponds to prepare it for final removal. One of the pond dams broke, allowing the slurry to escape into the river. It was never designed to be discharged the way it was and the warm water discharge is a totally independent process.  I live a few miles from the Kingston and Bull Run steam plants. There is limited warm water discharge from each but not like it used to be (frequency of discharge as well as temperature of water). 

Yeah I know all that , I’ve been to them. Independent of the process, then why is there a warm water discharge at both the steam plants you mentioned? It may be independent but it’s at the same facility. And it went horribly wrong once 

 

And like we mentioned earlier, Kingston and bull run both used to discharge much warmer water than they do today. And the fishing was better back then but they went from warm water discharge to lukewarm water discharge. I was under the impression there was some reason they stopped, probably safety or environmental reason. 
 

 

Browns ferry, the second most powerful nuke in the US, has caught on fire many times and almost melted down in the 70s . The list of accidents at that single facility alone is half a days reading . And that’s just one of them 

[Fastbee]

TnRiver46 - the coal is burned to heat water to produce steam that turns the turbines to make electricity. In a nuke plant the reactors heat water to make steam to turn the turbines. Hydro plants skip the need for steam and use the water itself to turn the turbines. Since coal and nuke need water for steam there will be cold water intake and warm water discharge for both.  The warm water discharge at Kingston didn't go horribly wrong, the ash storage did. 

 

Separate from that, TVA wasn't doing a good job meeting the warm water discharge requirements, not for toxicity but the temps were too high. Tennessee Dept of Environment and Conservation finally started enforcing the regulations after years of basically ignoring it. The fishing was MUCH better when it was warmer and running all winter.  Bull Run was at one time slotted to be closed in the near future due to the cost of clean air controls. 

 

OP - I used to love fishing the warm water discharges. The ones around here were much like you described, lots of fish but not many big ones. The only exceptions were some mondo striper and musky near the Bull Run discharge. 

[TnRiver46]

27 minutes ago, Fastbee said:

TnRiver46 - the coal is burned to heat water to produce steam that turns the turbines to make electricity. In a nuke plant the reactors heat water to make steam to turn the turbines. Hydro plants skip the need for steam and use the water itself to turn the turbines. Since coal and nuke need water for steam there will be cold water intake and warm water discharge for both.  The warm water discharge at Kingston didn't go horribly wrong, the ash storage did. 

 

Separate from that, TVA wasn't doing a good job meeting the warm water discharge requirements, not for toxicity but the temps were too high. Tennessee Dept of Environment and Conservation finally started enforcing the regulations after years of basically ignoring it. The fishing was MUCH better when it was warmer and running all winter.  Bull Run was at one time slotted to be closed in the near future due to the cost of clean air controls. 

 

OP - I used to love fishing the warm water discharges. The ones around here were much like you described, lots of fish but not many big ones. The only exceptions were some mondo striper and musky near the Bull Run discharge. 

Seems like someone had a state record 100 lb blue cat from bull run steam plant that was later broken. I used to catch a good many largemouth bank fishing when the air temp was in the teens but the water was steamy hot 

 

I know the water discharge itself isn’t what goes wrong, it’s just no coincidence that the disasters occurred at the same location where there was a discharge. Mostly fires and now a dam breech, with a few chemical spills mixed in. Get outside of the TVA and you’ve got Chernobyl, 3 mile island, Fukushima……

[Choporoz]

2 hours ago, Fastbee said:

 It was never designed to be discharged the way it was and the warm water discharge is a totally independent process.  

Should be.  However coal plant lakes routinely test high for heavy metals from ash.  In my lake in NC, I believe it is likely that filtered water from the ash ponds aren't as filtered as they should be.  But real root-cause information is extremely hard to come by.  The independent, closed systems may intersect inside or outside the design but we'll likely never be told how.  Whether it's directly from cooling water discharge or not, ash is a problem for lakes and rivers.

[Woody B]

3 hours ago, Choporoz said:

The independent, closed systems may intersect inside or outside the design but we'll likely never be told how. 

 

The problems in NC were due to the ash ponds overflowing due to flooding, excessive rain.  There were also problems with the liners in the ash ponds.   The water from the cooling ponds, discharged into the lakes "should" never see any contamination.   I have relatives who have recently retired from Duke Energy.   

 

There's more to the story of the coal ash incidents in NC but a public forum isn't the proper setting for a discussion.   (The NC incidents weren't as bad as the TVA mishaps.)

[softwateronly]

My basic understanding is that the river/lake water is used as a heat sink for the refrigerant in the heat exchanger to cool the steam back into liquid refrigerant. Should be a closed loop system. 
 

scott