Ultralight leader line keeps breaking off? Plz help

[LetMeSeeThatBass]

I have an ultralight set up using a 5lb nano braid (0.05mm diameter) with a 4lb seaguar fluoro leader. I tried the double uni or blood knot and it keeps breaking off.

 

Are the guides cutting through the knot? Or do I need to use a stronger knot? I have an ultralight rod that has very small guides closer to the tip. I’m so confused on why it keeps breaking off. Any advice?

[T-Billy]

Crazy Alberto.

[bulldog1935]

Single bend knots are guaranteed to cut through, thinner through thicker, braid through the mono. 

 

Try improved Allbright. 

The trick to tying this knot is remember which way your wrapped the braid, and continue to roll the knot in that direction as you gently tighten the braid tag first. 

Gradually tighten the mono tag as you're making the braid loops closer together. When you're happy with the braid wrap, last thing is tighten the standing ends. 

[MN Fisher]

Try an FG, Albright or Alberto knot...all those are slimmer than the two you're using.

[ATA]

FG at home and crazy Alberto on water, Do it right and you'll never have them break.

[GetFishorDieTryin]

Uni Uni and blood knot are good if the lines are of similar diameter. I use the alberto and if its tied and cinched correctly its incredibly strong and very small.  

[ska4fun]

11 hours ago, LetMeSeeThatBass said:

I have an ultralight set up using a 5lb nano braid (0.05mm diameter) with a 4lb seaguar fluoro leader. I tried the double uni or blood knot and it keeps breaking off.

 

Are the guides cutting through the knot? Or do I need to use a stronger knot? I have an ultralight rod that has very small guides closer to the tip. I’m so confused on why it keeps breaking off. Any advice?

Use the modified alberto knot. Maybe the braided is hurting the fluoro leader. 

[Deleted account]

12 hours ago, T-Billy said:

Crazy Alberto.

I'm pretty sure it's a schtick, I've seen him form coherent thoughts when he needs to...

[MickD]

Could be that 4 pound test is simply too fragile for the application you're using it on?

 

Alberto knot is easy, but I recommend finishing it with two tightly set overhand knots of the tag over the main braid.  Keeps it from unravelling.

[Dwight Hottle]

34 minutes ago, MickD said:

Could be that 4 pound test is simply too fragile for the application you're using it on?

I think your problem is the fine line choice more than the knot selection. You could test this by tying a one foot leader on that never enters the guide train & see if the breakage still occurs. The smaller the braid diameter the greater propensity to cut into the leader material. 

[bulldog1935]

Actually, if you put small diameter mono together with large diameter mono,

 

the smaller mono will cut through the larger mono in any single-bend knot. 

 

Anyone who says the problem here isn't the knot is polar incorrect. 

(especially those who tie triple surgeon's knots and know better). 

Double uni is a good knot to join braid together, or mono together of similar diameter, but the worst choice for braid to mono. 

 

If you want to try something simple, different and effective when you're on the water, try loop-to-loop.  This works because the braid and mono contact in a line rather than a point. 

 

I also loop on micro swivels, which is stronger than uni knot. 

[Tennessee Boy]

.05 mm diameter braid?  Really?

 

I feel like I’m living on the edge when I use 8# PowerPro which is .13mm.  
 

I can’t offer much advice because you’re doing something I’ve never done.  My concern would be that if the braid diameter is sharper than the knife in your pocket there’s a good chance it will cut through 4# fluorocarbon.

 

Test your knot and line with something in your house that weighs 1 pound.  If you can lift it,  your line and knot is working as designed.   The next question is can you effectively set your drag that low.

[A-Jay]

15 hours ago, LetMeSeeThatBass said:

I have an ultralight set up using a 5lb nano braid (0.05mm diameter) with a 4lb seaguar fluoro leader. I tried the double uni or blood knot and it keeps breaking off.

 

Are the guides cutting through the knot? Or do I need to use a stronger knot? I have an ultralight rod that has very small guides closer to the tip. I’m so confused on why it keeps breaking off. Any advice?

Let's start at the beginning.

What is your ultra light set up - rod & reel ?

What presentations are you using it for - techniques/baits ?

What type of environment are you fishing this deal in ~ Lake/pond, rivers, streams ?

What fish are you targeting ~  bass, panfish, trout, sturgeon ? 

Why the FC leader ?

In the lighter test (less than 8 lb) IME FC knot strength is garbage.

Regardless of the connection knot used.

Since the lines is so thin anyway, a quality mono leader will have a superior knot strength,

and still get plenty of bites. 

Lastly, my experience with nano braid was brief & bad. 

Casted great but had absurdly weak knot strength in the lightest test.

Might need to switch out the entire line & leader deal and go with something else.

A-Jay

 

 

[J Francho]

Raven makes micro swivels that pass through guides without issue and will allow you to use uni knots. I've caught many double digit trout employing them in my float rig, which includes a 4# Seaguar Gold leader. 

[ska4fun]

I use mostly PE0.5/0.08mm/6lb braided lines for my finesse presentations. Leaders around 8-10lb and modified alberto works like charm.

 

Is the Crazy Alberto the same knot as the modified one, finished with the braided passing twice into the knot eyelet?

[J Francho]

[LetMeSeeThatBass]

10 hours ago, A-Jay said:

Let's start at the beginning.

What is your ultra light set up - rod & reel ?

What presentations are you using it for - techniques/baits ?

What type of environment are you fishing this deal in ~ Lake/pond, rivers, streams ?

What fish are you targeting ~  bass, panfish, trout, sturgeon ? 

Why the FC leader ?

In the lighter test (less than 8 lb) IME FC knot strength is garbage.

Regardless of the connection knot used.

Since the lines is so thin anyway, a quality mono leader will have a superior knot strength,

and still get plenty of bites. 

Lastly, my experience with nano braid was brief & bad. 

Casted great but had absurdly weak knot strength in the lightest test.

Might need to switch out the entire line & leader deal and go with something else.

A-Jay

 

 

That’s what I ended up doing. I just switched to 2lb mono. The guides were probably cutting the knot. Fishing for trout/panfish. Thanks!

[A-Jay]

11 minutes ago, LetMeSeeThatBass said:

That’s what I ended up doing. I just switched to 2lb mono. The guides were probably cutting the knot. Fishing for trout/panfish. Thanks!

Nailed It ! 

A-Jay

[ska4fun]

4 hours ago, J Francho said:

 

I pass the blue line another time, inside the mono eyelet (step 3). Common alberto tends do untie when jerking/slashing topwater lures, when a big difference in diameter between lines is present.

[WRB]

On 11/20/2022 at 2:37 PM, LetMeSeeThatBass said:

I have an ultralight set up using a 5lb nano braid (0.05mm diameter) with a 4lb seaguar fluoro leader. I tried the double uni or blood knot and it keeps breaking off.

 

Are the guides cutting through the knot? Or do I need to use a stronger knot? I have an ultralight rod that has very small guides closer to the tip. I’m so confused on why it keeps breaking off. Any advice?

Why do you need a leader with .05mm/ .002 D?

Tom

[VolFan]

If the guides are cutting the line it’s not the line… you probably had no cushion on that short fluoro leader for the low stretch of the braid.

[immortl]

On 11/21/2022 at 8:31 AM, A-Jay said:

...<snip>

Lastly, my experience with nano braid was brief & bad. 

Casted great but had absurdly weak knot strength in the lightest test.

Might need to switch out the entire line & leader deal and go with something else.

A-Jay

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly with A-Jay about the absurdly weak knot strength with nano braid.  This fall I tried out Hitena Airbraid Razor line in 5.1lb and 3.1lb on my ultralight trout rigs.  Now these break at or near their rated strength, there isn't much overhead.  5.1lb is .086mm diameter and the 3.1lb is .067mm in diameter.  According to the specs, using a 'figure 8 knot' the breaking points are 2.3lb for 5.1lb 1.4lb for 3.1.  I couldn't tie anything to the line without the knot failing using my standard surgeon or improved clinch knots (I know, not the strongest choices, but I'm good with them with cold fingers).  I fished for the morning with the 5.1lb and then when it started raining in the afternoon, I ran off to Cabela's down the road a ways and had both reels stripped and put on Suffix 131 6lb braid.  Other than me not being able to really see the line against the backdrop of the stream, the Suffix 131 has been working great for me.  Using it on a Shimano Soare 500 (JDM) and a Stella FK 1000.  

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

On 11/20/2022 at 4:37 PM, LetMeSeeThatBass said:

I have an ultralight set up using a 5lb nano braid (0.05mm diameter)

Used 8# nanobraid for a few years no knot issues ever. My knot if I remember correctly held to 11 pounds. I dont use leader.