BFS Blanks

[dave]

Is there something that makes  BFS blank different, from say a ML or L,  fast blank for bass fishing?

[spoonplugger1]

BFS designed blanks are a different animal in design, throwing standard bass blank descriptions at them isn't going to help you. One example of a high performance readily available BFS blank is the NFC X Ray P700. It's fairly new, but I bet there is some info out there if you look.

[dave]

So, in checking out the NFC website, I see the specs. For those with more BFS experience, will this blank catch bass with no issues? The price is certainly right.

[spoonplugger1]

If you were building blanks in a country where bass is the #1 fished species, which species would you design that blank for? This has never been out of Gary Loomis' wheelhouse, just look at Hall of Famer Stan Fagerstrom's favorite rod, the Loomis SJR700 that has been around 40+ years and last I looked still was, mine is an old IM6 and the copy that is in the NFC catalog the SB5100-1. A mag bass blank designed for 4 to 8 lb line, 1/32 - 1/4 oz. lures, but does throw a bit heavier well.

[dave]

Thanks for the information, great help. 

[MickD]

Every blank has a measurable power, action, and natural frequency.  I'd like to have someone measure this BFS "different animal in design" with CCS and TNF and show me how it's different than some other blanks.  Anyone have CCS numbers on one?  TNF (true natural frequency) for this discussion isn't as important as the CCS numbers.

 

It is my opinion that if you have not measured it, and you can in this case, you really don't have a knowledgeable argument.  

 

"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind: it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely, in your thoughts, advanced to the stage of science, whatever the matter may be.

often quoted as ‘If you cannot measure it, then it is not science’"  Lord Kelvin

 

Please don't take this as an attack on anyone; it is simply an attempt to put numbers on BFS blanks so I can understand what makes them a "different animal." 

[spoonplugger1]

Mick,

It was done by NFC and published right off. Throws 1/32 oz. great, blank wt. 1.05 oz. ERN 5.70, AA 65 deg.

[MickD]

So it's simply a moderate action very light power blank.  Looks a lot like a fly blank.  AmTak Matrix fly blank MA-F704 would most likely be very similar.   

 

A "different animal" in that it is a longer than the usual ultra light power blank.  I have a Matrix 7 1/2 foot fly blank built as a spin for very small cranks.  Works very well for that.  

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Short answer is No, but those terms are subjective within them you’ll find blanks that work better than others. The “different animal” description points to one such option. That is not to say as Mick, point out that there are not equally or perhaps even better choices that are not marketed as BFS and in fact originally intended to an altogether different application. 

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

Blank doesnt have to be moderate.

To me BFS has a max total lure weight of 1/8oz.

So a ned rig is not BFS realm to me.

[Deleted account]

On 11/11/2022 at 4:59 PM, MickD said:

Every blank has a measurable power, action, and natural frequency.  I'd like to have someone measure this BFS "different animal in design" with CCS and TNF and show me how it's different than some other blanks.  Anyone have CCS numbers on one?  TNF (true natural frequency) for this discussion isn't as important as the CCS numbers.

 

It is my opinion that if you have not measured it, and you can in this case, you really don't have a knowledgeable argument.  

 

"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind: it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely, in your thoughts, advanced to the stage of science, whatever the matter may be.

often quoted as ‘If you cannot measure it, then it is not science’"  Lord Kelvin

 

Please don't take this as an attack on anyone; it is simply an attempt to put numbers on BFS blanks so I can understand what makes them a "different animal." 

Yes, and one infinity is larger than another...

[MickD]

19 minutes ago, Deleted account said:

Yes, and one infinity is larger than another...

And what does this mean relative to the subject being discussed?

[Deleted account]

9 hours ago, MickD said:

And what does this mean relative to the subject being discussed?

We are limited to our understanding of existence by the same senses granted us that allow us furthering our understanding of said existence.

[MickD]

I respectfully submit that if one cannot understand CCS and TNF (True Natural Frequency) and their implications to rod design and performance they probably should go on to another subject.

[Deleted account]

3 minutes ago, MickD said:

I respectfully submit that if one cannot understand CCS and TNF (True Natural Frequency) and their implications to rod design and performance they probably should go on to another subject.

Quantifying physical properties and measuring resonance isn't rocket science, wait, sometimes it is.....  

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

One sought after "standard" for a BFS rod reel is to be able to cast a 1g trout magnet. So the reel needs a very light spool and the rod needs to be able to load that weight. Is there a special design to the rod no its just built with light enough power to accomplish the task. Its like a frog rod a crankbait rod a drop shot rod these all have the same components in general just different attributes for their purpose.

[spoonplugger1]

What other US blank manufacturers make that blank, same weight, same material? To me, that's an innovator, someone willing to hang his butt out there, always testing, always looking, compared to other bass blanks out there, this is a different animal. Remember what the original dropshot rods were? Nothing like they are today in length, action, material. You could almost make two old rods out of the material used today for one. Different animals. A serious expansion of tackle used, size of tackle and angler expectations over the years. SCV, 15+ years old, NRX, close to 15 years old. GLX, 30 years old.

[WC53]

To me bfs is about taper. Light enough to throw a range of say 2.2-5 grams, but then transition to a stiffer butt. Not a lot around as most are just reimaged Lts.  I think the casting trout magnets is just a gimmick. You can maybe cast them, but boy do you have to pay attention.  3-5 grams is the sweet spot for me.  2 grams and under, no thanks.

The P700 is much stiffer than a comparable fly rod. It does cast very nice and a great rod for trout and smallies. It doesn’t have the power down low (to me) for around docks or in cover. Haven’t fished it in any fast water to get a feel for that.  I haven’t had any big fish on it yet to give that perspective .

I have been playing with some of the lighter CB blanks as their softer action seems to do well. No luck in finding nirvana yet.

 

Just as any fyi, what I use the most,  the Duel spearhead 38/45s or TRD on 32/16 jigheads.  The TRD total weight for me is 4.4 grams and the craw isn’t aerodynamic  

[Lead Head]

Just thinking out loud...

 

 

I wonder how a L or ML hot shot or drop shot blank would work for bfs? Typically, XF tips are also Xtra soft. Have any of you built a XF drop shot blank into a casting rod? If so, how did it perform? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MickD]

It's all about the numbers, and the subjective descriptions and designations such as "drop shot" and "casting" and "fly" are too misleading to trust.  The CCS numbers given for the "magic blank" (ERN 5.7, AA 65) are almost identical to a Matrix fly rod I have that is built into a  spinning rod, and the action is not what most would call XFast.  The 65 degree AA is what most would call moderate or moderate fast.  About 80 degrees is what most would call XFast.  

 

A light power hot shot (usually these have AA's of about 80 or even higher) or drop shot (usually these have AA's in the high 70's based on my experience) would probably work OK for BFS if the power is actually in the ERN 5 range and not up over 13 where most drop shot rods are.  Many are much higher than that.   It's mostly about loading properly for the light lures, and one advantage of what most call XFast actions is that they cast a wider range of weights than do slower actions.  The soft tip casts the light stuff well and if you go with heavier lures, the rod's tip gets quickly out of the way and the butt gets loaded without the rod being overpowered. 

 

[MickD]

I mentioned this before on this forum, but I'll repeat for context.  One of the most respected blank manufacturers markets, if I remember correctly, about 6 light/UL blanks that are all called XFast action, different lengths.  The AA's range from about 52 to about 80.  This is how bad it is with subjective descriptions.  52 is slower than any fly blank I've ever measured and I don't think anyone here would call it XFast.  And this is all from just one manufacturer.  

[1984isNOW]

Yeah I feel like I've seem rods bend well past what I would consider an extra fast action be labeled extra fast.

 

I actually just reached out to Rodgeeks about their 7"3MH extra sensitive drop shot rod. I asked what extra sensitive meant (that's what the website says - extra sensitive) and he told me it doesn't mean extra sensitive it means extra slow. I responded with the link to the page for the extra sensitive rod and asked for clarification in case we happen to be looking at 2 different things... I've heard nothing back.

 The lure ratings for that dropshot rod are very MH so I'm not sure how it's a drop shot rod unless it is strong but totally folds under loads.

 

[MickD]

Sounds like you didn't make contact with the best source of info at Rodgeeks.  I've had good experience dealing with Rodgeeks, but this is hard to understand.  

[WC53]

I would look for blanks with a 4-10 or 6-12 line ratings. A non noodle walley blank, light crank or popping blank along with some drop shot all could have similarities. Or a rod for Neds?

if you have a bunch of light spinners rods available. See if they will toss the light weight setup as a spinner. Then try with a casting reel.

 

I agree with Mick on the ratings, I have one 6-12 that is at least a 10-20 and fast.

[MickD]

Yes, WC53!

If one really thinks that the "magic rod", the different animal, is the way to go then the problem is that there are very few blanks other than the ultra light short blanks with an ERN of about 5.7.  And they are too short and too slow in action.   Most Ned and drop shot spin blanks test well over 10 ERN.

 

 Very few blanks available in this ERN/length range except for the "shorter" fly blanks.  Build one into a casting rod and I think you will be very surprised, and pleased.  A 4 or 5 weight (usually fly blanks test up almost a full ERN from their published "weight.") 7  or 7.5 foot fly blank described as moderate-fast or fast.  If 7.5 is too long, cut off the butt a few inches.