Rod Building Kit Advice (I don't dip toes - I dive in)

[1984isNOW]

Hi all,

 

I think I am going to bite the bullet and start my new addiction (as I'm sure it will be). I want higher end equipment at a more affordable price, and given the sales I have seen on materials vs finished products I think I need to start doing things myself (It seems that I could build rods I could never afford otherwise).

 

I am looking to get a rod building kit that has all the basics to actually build my firsts few rods before I get snobby about guides,grips, and epoxy. NFC is having a sale on blanks and some other components I will probably get (along with some cheapo garbage rod kit bundles to practice on), but I need the tools too.

 

I've seen a few sites with bundles, but I have no idea what I'm looking at or what it all means or if there is something that is missing from a kit that I should know about but don't know enough to know what's not there. Here are some links to kits I've found, and please share others if you think they're worth looking at. 

 

https://mudhole.com/products/basic-rod-building-start-up-supply-kit-fsb-2?_pos=2&_sid=ede689cdb&_ss=r

 

https://getbitoutdoors.com/getbit-gbstk-wddr

 

I found like 6 rod building materials websites - is there a quality difference in equipment like dryers and thread and epoxy etc. (aside from materials for the actual rod) 

 

What sites are good for learning/advice/tips etc. and what sites are good for buying materials?

 

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

 

 

[spoonplugger1]

After looking at both, and looking at 40 years of doing this, I would slightly be most inclined to go with the Get Bit kit, the only reason being the reamer set that can be used manually with the nice screwdriver like grip or chucked in a drill for doing the initial cutting quicker. This is the biggest work saving thing I can think of in hand building and will be there every rod thereafter.

Over time I think you'll see there is very little difference in prices among the major suppliers and unless you want to try a bit of everything from everybody on all your builds, you'll find the dealer that carries the products you want to use and treats you right on customer service.

[MickD]

There are many independent  instructional videos on line.  Search YouTube for them.  Be aware that independent videos express the opinion of the producer and there is some bad advice out there.  The companies that sell rodbuilding supplies and have good videos and are probably of higher integrity.  Look at Mudhole.com, BetBitOutdoors, Batson Enterprises, Flex Coat, Anglersresource.net.  Great articles are found in the Library at Rodbuilding.org. 

 

A few tips that might help getting started:  

-  Nylon thread unless it is labeled NCP, or no color preservative, requires color preservative to maintain its color after epoxy.

-  Wrap epoxy and epoxy adhesive are two different materials and cannot be interchanged.

-  You'll see a lot of recommendations to heat wrap epoxy- be aware that many rod-builders never use heat and excessive heat is one of the biggest villains with respect to smooth, even , wrap finishes.

-  For your beginning project do not use very light colored thread on dark blanks.  It is very difficult to make it look good due to almost invisible gaps between wraps showing up as blotches.

-  See the surface prep article in the Rodbuilding.org Library.  Remember that after wrap epoxy or epoxy adhesive cures, it is very difficult to clean up.  Clean up with alcohol before it cures.

-  Contamination from unnecessary fluid cleanups before wrapping and oil/wax/silicone contamination is probably second to heat in screwing up wraps.  Best just keep it clean to begin with rather than wiping down with alcohol or other fluids.  

-  Thread designed for embroidery machines (except rayon) can be used for wraps but definitely requires CP (color preservative) to prevent fish eyes from the lubricant in it.

Good luck. You won't be saving money but you will be getting rods made just the way you want them.

[MickD]

Thanks, A-Jay.  

 

[1984isNOW]

@MickDaMickDand @spoonplugger1

Thanks for your thoughts and insight. I've been reading since of the things you have said in other threads, thanks for being here to help keep the art alive.

 

@MickDfor the rods I was looking at that were on sale versus the components separately which were on better sale I can actually get the rod I wanted (or pretty close) for about half price or less, with the bonus of customizing a few things.

 

Do either of you 2 have videos? Or @Delaware Valley Tackle?Looking for an apprentice?

 

I usually go way too hard and way too deep when I get into something and I'm already enjoying this rabbit hole. it's a little daunting, and slightly overwhelming, but I thrive in those settings.

 

Do I bother buying a couple cheap rod kits for practice or just go for the gusto (I think I'm going to get 3-4 NFC blanks right away)?  Relative to a manufactured rod what can go wrong? Like how sloppy of a job can a newbie do but still have a perfectly fine and fishable rod?

 

What are the absolute mistakes I need to look out for that make the most impact on the build?

 

 

[MickD]

No, I don't do videos.

 

Regarding starting with a less expensive set of components, like a complete kit, is in my judgment, a good strategy.  You will learn the process, nomenclature, and will have a very good rod in the process.  With most builders their skills improve with every build at the beginning.  I started with a premium blank and screwed it up with a grip too long for good ergonomics.  I ended up cutting 1 1/2 inches off the butt of a $160 blank.

 

My comment on saving money is based on the likely outcome of going more for premium blanks and  components and building more rods than one would buy as complete rods.  I agree that with good shopping one can build an identical rod less expensively.  But one can buy complete rods on sale too, and the difference is not that great.

 

One major advantage of building your own, if you do it right, is that you won't have reel seats and grips coming loose as so often happens with factory rods.  Don't skimp on adhesive, prep the surfaces properly, and if using masking tape for arbors/bushings, totally encapsulate them.  

[MikeK]

Mud Hole class in Taunton MA mid April

 

https://mudhole.com/pages/rod-building-classes#calendar-910f384f-1a98-4d26-9bf2-096b5d34c818-event-dec58924-44ad-404c-bba6-a3ed0d1a38aa

[1984isNOW]

Thanks again friends, and @MikeKthanks for sharing that class - but I need something through the winter haha. I'm just gonna go for it watching YouTube.

 

I think the dream reamer set makes the most difference between these bundles as @spoonplugger1  Said - the kit looks likebit has less of the the other stuff like thread and less impressive looking thread wrapper and a couple other things but those reamers on drill bits look like a major time and energy saver.

 

I was wondering about creating a grip or modifying a grip to be offset and sit a little higher up than typical- any thoughts on how to go about that?

[MikeK]

1 hour ago, PUTitinYOURmouthFISH said:

 

I was wondering about creating a grip or modifying a grip to be offset and sit a little higher up than typical- any thoughts on how to go about that?

Cork?  Hand sand lengthwise with sanding block.  Easier if you can put on a mandrel and use a lathe to hold.  EVA same but more effort.  Won't have contours but will have offset bore.

 

IMO preshaped cork grips end up looking pretty bad when you sand out the filler.

[spoonplugger1]

Spit grips, real ones, many are way to long and help remove any benefit of their use, can easily be turned (sanded) into shape by sliding them on a drill bit in your hand drill and have at it, if you must have a long one just swap the grip end for end and finish it, the closer your work is to the chuck the less chance of noticeable run out. Many times, people think things are difficult, or impossible because they make them such in their own mind. EVA can also be easily shaped this way though you want to keep your friction heat to a minimum, so you don't soften the foam, keep the abrasive moving.

Cork grips are not turned like wood on a lathe, the cork is to soft, they are sanded into shape with shaping stones in the commercial environment.

[MickD]

If you really want top quality cork you need to do one of two things:  1.  Build your own grip blanks from glued up natural cork rings, top quality pricey.  Then turn them to shape.  It can be done on a drill press with simple jigs and sandpaper.  PM me if you need instructions.   or 1. Build your own grip blanks from exotic burl cork rings.  A little heavier, great variety of looks, very tough and durable.  Then turn them to shape.  

[1984isNOW]

I suppose that might be getting a little bit ahead of myself, have no lathe, mandrel, or a place to set that stuff up or any idea what they are and how to use them. But eventually I will likely try to grab some cork to glue together and drill out myself.

 

What is the absolute cheapest components I can use to practice on? Should I buy some junky zebcos for 10 bucks and take them apart to learn? You know where to find the absolute cheapest blank if I shouldn't deconstruct to rebuild?

 

Aside from Mud hole - any other youtube channels you reccomend?

[Chris Catignani]

1 hour ago, PUTitinYOURmouthFISH said:

What is the absolute cheapest components I can use to practice on? 

Aside from Mud hole - any other YouTube channels you recommend?

You can just redo a set of guides on a rod you already have...

Check out the FlexCoat channel: Flex Coat - YouTube

 

There are seceral ways people shape the cork for a handle:

1: Glue up the cork on a mandrel and turn it on a lathe.

2: Glue up the cork on the rod and turn it on a rod lathe.

You can also shape the cork without a lathe by using a cabinet makers file and sand paper...on the mandrel or on the blank.

 

...or you can just buy it already assembled. 

[MikeK]

Usually there are a lot of good sale prices for Black Friday/Cyber Monday.

[1984isNOW]

Thanks!

 

Looking at blank info what does this mean

 

Butt:  .523

Tip: 5.5

 

Also over obviously heard a lot about NFC blanks, and they're having a solid sale seemingly. Any thoughts on those blanks and prices?

[Chris Catignani]

31 minutes ago, PUTitinYOURmouthFISH said:

...

Looking at blank info what does this mean

 

Butt:  .523

Tip: 5.5

...

The butt measurement is the diameter in inches.

The tip measurement is in 64th's of an inch. 

Tip top guides have two measurements...one is the actual guide ring and the other is the barrel that goes on the blank.

[1984isNOW]

So the tip is 5.5/64ths of am inch in diameter? Why do we do 64ths of an inch?

 

And thanks ?

[MikeK]

40 minutes ago, PUTitinYOURmouthFISH said:

Also over obviously heard a lot about NFC blanks, and they're having a solid sale seemingly. Any thoughts on those blanks and prices?

NFC blanks are good.  Use their CATALOG (on-line) for a more complete and accurate listing of specifications.

 

They sell only manufacturer direct and their periodic sales have very good prices.

 

Do you understand rod action and power?  Descriptive terms like fast and medium-light are pretty hard to compare.

 

Describe your fishing style and ask for help with blank selection and a lot of the folks here will be able to make suggestions on specific blanks.

6 minutes ago, PUTitinYOURmouthFISH said:

So the tip is 5.5/64ths of am inch in diameter? Why do we do 64ths of an inch?

 

No idea.

 

As we say at work . . . because we've done it that way since the Apollo program

[1984isNOW]

1 minute ago, MikeK said:

NFC blanks are good.  Use their CATALOG (on-line) for a more complete and accurate listing of specifications.

 

They sell only manufacturer direct and their periodic sales have very good prices.

 

Do you understand rod action and power?  Descriptive terms like fast and medium-light are pretty hard to compare.

 

Describe your fishing style and ask for help with blank selection and a lot of the folks here will be able to make suggestions on specific blanks.

Thanks man!

 

I'm looking at a few there...

For jigs/worms in cover https://northforkcomposites.com/product/mb-765-1-x-ray-lmx-neo/

 

and then a couple MB rods 734 and 5 maybe 6.also the shortest casting blanks and spinning blanks I could find - in honor of those who fished before I was alive and caught monsters on little rods.

[1984isNOW]

I feel like I'm relearning my style anyway - I started using the ned rig a couple years ago and then that was almost all I fished - it always caught fish and sometimes fat ones. I'm trying to go back to a more diverse selection of techniques.

 

All my casters have been fast action until relatively recently- slx m xf last year only used a few times felt really good. Got a Kistler Helium 7 ft heavy medium heavy xf a couple months ago because I liked the slx so much. Again only used a couple times but feels nice (don't think any fish on it yet though).

 

Also just got my first moderate fast in a 7"2 st croix victory mhmf. For swim jigs (which I just started using) it changed my world- love the feel and the fight and made me love swim jigs.

 

So I want some more moderate fast to feel for other lures too - plus I've seen people like for jigs so I'm curious about that too.

[MikeK]

Use some type of consistent measuring system to evaluate the rods you already have in terms of power and action.  You can relate your likes and dislikes to those measurements then use those measurements to help select blanks.  Internet search Common Cents System for info on one such method.

[Chris Catignani]

2 hours ago, PUTitinYOURmouthFISH said:

So the tip is 5.5/64ths of am inch in diameter? Why do we do 64ths of an inch?

 

And thanks ?

Its just a way to come up with a whole number vs something like 0.0859375".

[spoonplugger1]

Take your electric drill, chuck a straight rod in it, and stick the other end in a hole you drilled in a piece of 2 X 4 and you have all the lathe you need for grip making, my mentor had this setup made with an old, huge Milwaukie 1/2" drill motor nailed on the exposed stud wall in his shed for decades, this is not something that has to be infrastructure driven with high expense.

Back in the "good ol' days" they came up with 64th of an inch. A 5.5 is 5/64th plus 1/128th, or half of 11/128th. Confused yet?

[1984isNOW]

Thanks yall, I looked up some youtube stuff and that looks like shaping the cork might be a step or 2 ahead of me, but again I'm ready for the dive and feel like since I'm starting this journey a little later in life than I would've liked if I'da known about this a number of years ago I might as well just jump right to level 5 from 0. 

 

I can't "take my time" to get to the point of learning skills one at a time, I'm thinking I need to learn a number of building skills simultaneously in order to give myself a jump start.

 

The biggest issue is I can't seem to find cork without a hole already drilled in it, I think I would need to off set the hole in order to give myself a bump on the grip to sit higher than usual.