Extra Fast Tip - Doofus on Board

[Masaccio]

Okay, I admit it.  Dumb-dumb.  I thought that "extra-fast" meant greater flex in the tip.  So now I have this wonderful St. Croix Medium, Extra-fast rod.  Thinking the reel should be 7-something, and that I should use a fluorocarbon or mono lead if I want to use braid. 

But what does an extra-fast tip really excel at, please?  The specs state lure capacity: 3/16 - 5/8 lure (a little under 1/4 and a litle over 1/2), 10-14 lb (mono) line.  6'10".  What is this rod meant to throw? Thanks !! 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Don’t get hung up on this. That’s a nice bottom contact t rig, senko, fluke rod. I like it for hard jerkbaits too. 

[JohnFromLisbon]

First thing you need to know is there isn't an industry standard for blank action (or even power for that matter). One brand's fast might be another brand's moderate. I've only handled a couple of St. Croix rods but all of them felt "softer" (i.e. slower or more moderate) than the comparable Loomis rod, for example.

 

A St. Croix extra fast might still be okay for moving baits for example. A 6'10 medium extra-fast would be my close quarters Senko rod, for example. Finesse jigs, too. But from the sound of it you can pull off jerkbaits (altough you might want not to rip them as hard as you would on straight fluoro), poppers, smaller walking baits, and even make due for squarebills. 

As for the leader just consider if you're throwing a bottom bait or something moving. Surface baits will benefit from a thicker mono leader, partly because it floats, but mostly because it'll keep your braid from tangling in the treble hooks. 

[WRB]

Spinning or casting rod?

Tom

[Boomstick]

Is this the 6'8" St Croix? While that is an extra fast, it works well for treble hooks because there is a lot of bend throughout the rod. I usually use mine for generally poppers and jerkbaits. I use a 7:1:1 speed reel with about 29" IPT so I can give it small turns when fishing either.

  

2 hours ago, JohnFromLisbon said:

A St. Croix extra fast might still be okay for moving baits for example.

The 6'8" M/XF St Croix rod generally has a good amount of bend throughout the rod, so despite little tip there is still plenty of bend which is why it works so well for treble hooked baits.

[Wprich]

4 hours ago, Masaccio said:

Okay, I admit it.  Dumb-dumb.  I thought that "extra-fast" meant greater flex in the tip.  So now I have this wonderful St. Croix Medium, Extra-fast rod.  Thinking the reel should be 7-something, and that I should use a fluorocarbon or mono lead if I want to use braid. 

But what does an extra-fast tip really excel at, please?  The specs state lure capacity: 3/16 - 5/8 lure (a little under 1/4 and a litle over 1/2), 10-14 lb (mono) line.  6'10".  What is this rod meant to throw? Thanks !! 

I have a Legend Elite Spinning model with those specs I use mostly for wacky/neko rigs, light texas rigs(1/8-3/16 + plastic), and have thrown little underspins as well with it.

[Masaccio]

13 hours ago, WRB said:

Spinning or casting rod?

Tom

Casting. 

[Deleted account]

15 hours ago, Masaccio said:

Okay, I admit it.  Dumb-dumb.  I thought that "extra-fast" meant greater flex in the tip. 

It does, all else being equal. That rod while labeled XF actually fishes more like a fast, what you are probably attributing to the action is the lower power, and overall greater flex (throughout the blank).

My suggestion is to ignore all the letters and numbers on rods. 

[T-Billy]

I don't have that blank, but I have the 6'8" M XF Avid X and like it for finesse Trigs, and jigs. I have a Fuego with a shallow braid spool on it and 10# 832. It's my one step up from a ned rod. 

[Masaccio]

13 hours ago, Boomstick said:

Is this the 6'8" St Croix? While that is an extra fast, it works well for treble hooks because there is a lot of bend throughout the rod. I usually use mine for generally poppers and jerkbaits. I use a 7:1:1 speed reel with about 29" IPT so I can give it small turns when fishing either.

  

The 6'8" M/XF St Croix rod generally has a good amount of bend throughout the rod, so despite little tip there is still plenty of bend which is why it works so well for treble hooked baits.

Awesome. Thanks!

39 minutes ago, Deleted account said:

It does, all else being equal. That rod while labeled XF actually fishes more like a fast, what you are probably attributing to the action is the lower power, and overall greater flex (throughout the blank).

My suggestion is to ignore all the letters and numbers on rods. 

I was remembering a few months ago, either Loomis or St. Croix had a ML Extra fast that was very popular.  I was looking for a ML at the time.  One guy, kayaker (not a regular here I don't think, but I could be wrong) posted here, and on a YouTube video that he was having trouble loosing a lot of fish with that ML, Extra Fast.  When I realized my mistake in understanding what an extra fast tip was, his comment began to make more sense.  

Thanks though, Deleted account.  It's good to understand what it is, and what some of the pitfalls might be, but also good to know that it's probably not a "fatal error."  

[Tatulatard]

17 hours ago, Masaccio said:

Okay, I admit it.  Dumb-dumb.  I thought that "extra-fast" meant greater flex in the tip.  So now I have this wonderful St. Croix Medium, Extra-fast rod.  Thinking the reel should be 7-something, and that I should use a fluorocarbon or mono lead if I want to use braid. 

But what does an extra-fast tip really excel at, please?  The specs state lure capacity: 3/16 - 5/8 lure (a little under 1/4 and a litle over 1/2), 10-14 lb (mono) line.  6'10".  What is this rod meant to throw? Thanks !! 

I like it for weightless plastics, top waters and jerkbaits.  If top waters aren't your thing then 12lb flouro on a something like like a tatula sv or other reel with a light weight spool and you are set.  I target cast 1/7 oz neds, weightless flukes, senkos and other weightless rigged plastics in the 4 to 5 inch range.  Early in the season it pulls double duty as a jerkbait rod.

[WRB]

3 hours ago, Masaccio said:

Casting. 

Good all around multi use finesse rod for top water poppers, dog walking , smaller jerk baits, lighter T-rigged soft plastics, weightless stick baits.

I suggest using 11 lb Armillo Nylon line and a reel like SLX MGL 70 reel.

Tom

 

[Eric 26]

I won’t add a comment on the rod itself, but is it to late to exchange it for another rod you would be happier with?

[a1712]

What was the rod originally purchased for, technique? Brian.

[RDB]

Not a doofus.  An XF rod does flex more at the tip relative to the rest of the rod. In very basic terms, action refers to where (flex) and power refers to how much (pressure).  Action - how quickly you get to the backbone.  Power - how much backbone you have when you get there.
I don’t know your rod but as a general rule, XF rods should excel when quicker hook sets are needed and usually provide improved sensitivity (other things influence as well).  I would assume it would likely excel with bottom contact and vertical presentations within it’s lure ratings.  My favorite bottom contact spinning rod is the NRX 852 (probably the most popular Loomis spinning rod) and it Is also a med/XF rod.

[Masaccio]

4 hours ago, WRB said:

Good all around multi use finesse rod for top water poppers, dog walking , smaller jerk baits, lighter T-rigged soft plastics, weightless stick baits.

I suggest using 11 lb Armillo Nylon line and a reel like SLX MGL 70 reel.

Tom

 

Thanks, Tom. This answer targets an area that I've had some success with (jerkbaits), and topwaters, which I want to learn a lot more about.  Also wanted to try some T-rigged soft swimbaits this week.  The reel sounds awesome.  I'm guessing you are suggesting the 6.3:1 ratio.  

4 hours ago, Eric 26 said:

I won’t add a comment on the rod itself, but is it to late to exchange it for another rod you would be happier with?

Good suggestion.  I don't do exchanges except under the most dire circumstances.  I guess it's more fun to find out what I can do even with apparent misfires.  It's all fishing!  

4 hours ago, a1712 said:

What was the rod originally purchased for, technique? Brian.

I was envisioning a light rod for whatever might be available in a narrow, shallow river with pockets.  Lighter lures, but with some casting power.  Accuracy.  Thanks for asking. Great question.  

[Masaccio]

Oh, and "a 1712", overgrown borders and overhanging trees.  

4 hours ago, a1712 said:

What was the rod originally purchased for, technique? Brian.

See above comment to you, Brian.  The first time I fished this, I would have killed myself from frustration if I hadn't been having such a good time.  

[Tatulatard]

1 hour ago, Masaccio said:

Oh, and "a 1712", overgrown borders and overhanging trees.  

See above comment to you, Brian.  The first time I fished this, I would have killed myself from frustration if I hadn't been having such a good time.  

It's a good rod for what you want it to do.  There will be a slight adjustment in the release timing everytime you pick it up due to the xf nature.  Ny fist few casts with it are off target until I adjust.  Its a good little rod.  The mojo 68xf is the "topwater" rod of the line but still does jerkbaits and plastics well.  There are very subtle differences between the mojo topwater, jerkbait and plastics medium rods.  They are all very similar.  

[Boomstick]

1 hour ago, Tatulatard said:

It's a good rod for what you want it to do.  There will be a slight adjustment in the release timing everytime you pick it up due to the xf nature.  Ny fist few casts with it are off target until I adjust.  Its a good little rod.  The mojo 68xf is the "topwater" rod of the line but still does jerkbaits and plastics well.  There are very subtle differences between the mojo topwater, jerkbait and plastics medium rods.  They are all very similar.  

The plastics rod has a longer tip and a little more backbone. It largely works for the same presentations too. I don't have the jerkbait rod, but I'm fairly sure it's just the plastics rod that's shorter.

[Masaccio]

On 10/23/2022 at 7:54 AM, Deleted account said:

It does, all else being equal. That rod while labeled XF actually fishes more like a fast, what you are probably attributing to the action is the lower power, and overall greater flex (throughout the blank).

My suggestion is to ignore all the letters and numbers on rods. 

I found this comment on fast vs. extra fast that seemed helpful and informative to me. I just posted it on an 11 year old discussion on this forum, but here it is again. 

This comment from Tackletour.net by "Montanaro" explains the basic theory in just a few words, and why you might want to choose an extra fast over a fast (or visa versa) depending on the conditions you will be fishing in.  I paraphrased the original statements.

Extra Fast vs. Fast Tip: 
In regards to sensitivity and how much you will lose with everything being equal?  Nearly imperceptible.

The slower action tip will provide more accurate and consistent casts. An extra fast tip gets to the backbone of a rod faster.  Extra fast action is better for setting hook through plastic or weedguard and for controlling a fish in heavy cover.

[Deleted account]

13 minutes ago, Masaccio said:

I found this comment on fast vs. extra fast that seemed helpful and informative to me. I just posted it on an 11 year old discussion on this forum, but here it is again. 

This comment from Tackletour.net by "Montanaro" explains the basic theory in just a few words, and why you might want to choose an extra fast over a fast (or visa versa) depending on the conditions you will be fishing in.  I paraphrased the original statements.

Extra Fast vs. Fast Tip: 
In regards to sensitivity and how much you will lose with everything being equal?  Nearly imperceptible.

The slower action tip will provide more accurate and consistent casts. An extra fast tip gets to the backbone of a rod faster.  Extra fast action is better for setting hook through plastic or weedguard and for controlling a fish in heavy cover.

Yeah, that's just word salad nonsense, and that assumes the rods actually fish as labeled, so file under whatever the next level of silly is...

[J Francho]

This spec in any St. Croix is my go to for spinnerbaits, every time. As mentioned, it excels in many other applications. 

[RDB]

The problem people make is to assume action refers to the amount of bend in the tip when it really refers to where the bend occurs…the further toward the tip, the faster the action.  In that regard, actions are relatively consistent from rod to rod and why percentages are used as a rule of thumb for defining rod actions.  Just because one fast action rod flexes more in the tip than another doesn’t mean that there is some inconsistency in the manufacturers ratings.

[GReb]

I sold a LTB 6’8 M XF several years ago. It’s probably the only rod I’ve ever sold that regret. Great jerkbait rod and I also used it for shaky heads. 

[Masaccio]

5 hours ago, Deleted account said:

Yeah, that's just word salad nonsense, and that assumes the rods actually fish as labeled, so file under whatever the next level of silly is...

I gotta say...  I appreciate your opinion and that you answered this question. I also appreciate your level of experience compared to mine.  That said:  There is an industry-wide distinction between fast and extra fast tips.  I personally believe that this means something.  Aside from the question of whether a given manufacturer is correctly labeling their rods, there is a difference between fast and medium fast tips.  My goal is to appreciate this difference.  And I found the the opinion that I posted the clearest explanation of that difference.  Not word salad at all.  I could be wrong.  But I don't think so.  Thanks.