Use for broken SCV 70MLF (missing last 4”)

[dv616]

The tip of my SCV 70MLF broke off and is now missing the last 4” .  This one is a factory rod, not a custom, so I got a warranty replacement.  The only downside is I do not like the Fuji TVS reel seat on the new version.  I may just sell it and use the money towards some of my next builds.  Might keep it too, we will see but leave the tags on for now.  I do not feel confident in stripping off all the guides to replace a handle and getting a clean build out of it or not damaging the blank in the process.  I know my limitations.  The only option I might be able to do is cut off the reel seat and fit an extension with a new reel seat on from the butt end.   

 

For the broken rod, what do you think a good use for the shortened 70MLF would be?  I am thinking it might be a good jerkbait/top water rod.  Any good ideas?  At the very least, I will strip it for the guides.  

[spoonplugger1]

It will make an excellent tomato plant stake, I's strip the guides and use it to repair or extend other blanks.

[MickD]

Keep the blank for repair sleeves for other rods.  This procedure works very well even with graphite instead of the preferred glass.  I presume you don't have the "missing" top 4 inches?  If you had it you could repair it and it would fish almost as well as before it broke.

 

https://www.rodbuilding.org/library/repair-oquinn.html

[dv616]

I have the tip, it broke in two places though.  I think the guides got caught in the woven rod sleeve or it caught  when sliding the rod sleeve into the rod box and folded the tip over.  

 

I have a couple blanks I do not think I will build that I could sacrifice for scrap, a Bushido is probably the best option, I do not have any pure glass blanks around and do not want to cut up any of my hybrid ones.  I really should try the repair method some day.  I just have a hard time believing it works that well.  My Shakari PSB 702 is a better candidate for the repair I think though since that break was more like a 12” or so down the rod blank.  

 

 

[MickD]

Might not work well if you have two breaks, which would mean two sleeves and therefore, more weight added.  I just fixed one broken about 3 inches down a couple days ago I'm very confident of it.  I had CCS numbers on a fly rod that shattered about in the middle and I fixed it with the method and rechecked the CCS numbers and they had not changed.  It had to be a little heavier, of course, but it's not detectable.  Since the repair was quite far down the rod I doubt if it slowed the recovery speed much if any.  I carry it as a spare to the Bahamas.

 

I would not sacrifice a Bushido.  They are excellent blanks.  If you want to try the repair find some junk rods in pawn shop, make a very low offer (they are always overpriced).  That Shikari sounds like a great candidate for repair. 

[Chris Catignani]

Quote

 I do not feel confident in stripping off all the guides to replace a handle and getting a clean build out of it or not damaging the blank in the process.  I know my limitations.

Its not so much your limitations in this case. Its never a good idea to strip and rework a brand new rod. Stripping a rod is like 2.5X the work of just a new build. So...just keep it for now. It might make a good Christmas present. Put a tip on the old rod (it might make a good Christmas present ;).

Now...you still need a rod. Build it from scratch.

[casts_by_fly]

13 hours ago, dv616 said:

The tip of my SCV 70MLF broke off and is now missing the last 4” .  This one is a factory rod, not a custom, so I got a warranty replacement.  The only downside is I do not like the Fuji TVS reel seat on the new version.  I may just sell it and use the money towards some of my next builds.  Might keep it too, we will see but leave the tags on for now.  I do not feel confident in stripping off all the guides to replace a handle and getting a clean build out of it or not damaging the blank in the process.  I know my limitations.  The only option I might be able to do is cut off the reel seat and fit an extension with a new reel seat on from the butt end.   

 

For the broken rod, what do you think a good use for the shortened 70MLF would be?  I am thinking it might be a good jerkbait/top water rod.  Any good ideas?  At the very least, I will strip it for the guides.  

 

If the foregrip is okay for you, you could strip the rear grip and seat and replace from the back end.  You might need to shim the front end of the rear grip but that will be hidden under the reel seat.

 

A 4" short SCV is a tough one.  They have such nice light tips that you're losing most of the best bits.  Two breaks in 4" is realistically one sleeve to fix it and it can be done, but I'd instead just throw a tip top on it and keep it as a loaner or a casting out with a bobber in a pond rod.

[MickD]

Repairing the rod will result in an order of magnitude improvement over just putting  a tip on it.  That will result in terrible rod. 

 

One thing you can do is to repair it, buy a new cheap reel for it, and give it to some aspiring child fisherperson.  Would be an excellent starter.

[uno]

I have a legend elite and I also dislike the TVS reel seat. I was able to remove the old grip and reel seat (but not the graphite tube in the reel seat). I put on a fuji vss reel seat and matched the cork on that with the cork on the old foregrip. I then put a full cork grip on from the bottom. Works great. Not the perfect fit you would get by stripping the whole rod, but I don't think there is any way you could tell it was done from the bottom with the finished product.

[MickD]

Replacing grips from the bottom is easier than most people think.  You just make the tapered blank into a cylinder with a few masking tape wraps which if done right will basically define a cylinder of constant diameter.  I always totally encapsulate tape arbors in epoxy in case water gets in they won't get exposed to it. 

[MikeK]

On 10/20/2022 at 9:50 PM, dv616 said:

 

 

For the broken rod, what do you think a good use for the shortened 70MLF would be?  I am thinking it might be a good jerkbait/top water rod.  Any good ideas?  At the very least, I will strip it for the guides.  

Measure the CCS action and power of the broken rod and post up the numbers and someone may be able to make some recommendations.

[MickD]

I am a big advocate of using CCS numbers, but if you take 4 inches off any blank it won't be very good for much of anything.  Anything related to legal fishing.  But give it a try.

[MikeK]

On 10/21/2022 at 2:31 AM, spoonplugger1 said:

It will make an excellent tomato plant stake, I's strip the guides and use it to repair or extend other blanks.

 

12 hours ago, MickD said:

I am a big advocate of using CCS numbers, but if you take 4 inches off any blank it won't be very good for much of anything.  Anything related to legal fishing.  But give it a try.

I'm gonna be a little contrary this morning and give two descriptions of a rod I have . . .

 

1.  I broke off 5-3/4" from the tip of a 7' spinning rod, right at the second guide from the tip.  If I install a new tip what would the rod be good for?

2.  I have a 6' 6" spinning rod with no markings.  The CCS IP is 664 grams and the CCS action angle is 73.  What would the rod be good for?

[MickD]

 

It is my opinion that missing 5 3/4 inches will make the spinning rod feel really stiff and while it might be good for flat line trolling, I think that's about it.  

 

664 grams = ERN 22.  The second rod would be described by most to be a moderate/fast action medium power rod.   It should work OK for casting  lures of about 3/8 oz and up.  I would think it would make a good skirted jig rod, crankbaits, spinnerbaits.  It depends a lot on personal preferences, but there  is no reason to believe it won't fish well.

 

In comparison I built two 6 feet 6 Point Blanks of ERN 19 AA 77 into baitcasters for my son and he uses them for all kinds of baitcasting, rattle traps, surface, chatterbaits, cranks.  The faster AA means at the same power the faster actions will have softer tips.  77 would be described by most as being extra fast action.  The 19/77 rods cast 3/8 oz and a little higher just fine, and will probably go lighter than a 22/73. 

 

I personally believe that extra fast actions cast a wider range of weight well than do slower actions due to the softer tips casting the lighter stuff well and the stiff backbones handling the heavier stuff well after the tip has bent out of the game.  

 

Most crankbait fishermen like the slower actions.  Again , personal preference.

[MikeK]

Mick, the two descriptions I gave are the same rod.

 

CCS is as useful for stuff like this as it is for selecting a blank.  Without CCS measurements or direct experience with the rod the OP is talking about I'm not able to make any inferences about how it has changed or might be put to another use.

[spoonplugger1]

The CC system was never designed to select blanks, it was designed to compare blanks. No more value than comparing two lengths of wood with a tape measure or comparing two objects by weight with a scale. You can build any blank profile of power and angle with wood, bamboo, glass, carbon, but if you don't have identical materials used the end result in use will always be different in use, I don't think I have ever seen a blank lose 6 inches still have such a steep action angle, usually the decreased length, decreases the droop distance used and significantly makes the AA less shallow when compared to the original blank.

[MickD]

17 hours ago, MikeK said:

Mick, the two descriptions I gave are the same rod.

 

Yes, I am surprised.  I would have thought taking that length off a rod would have resulted in a lower AA.  Live and learn.  I still doubt if it feels like a decent rod.  

Adding to Spoonplugger's comments regarding material, whether glass, bamboo, different grades/moduli of carbon fiber, it is now possible to measure another objective attribute of blanks/rods to further our understanding of them.  True  Natural Frequency, or TNF abbreviated.  It is a direct measure of the recovery speed of the blank/rod and some argue an objective measure of sensitivity.  It can be done easily and quickly with tools most people now have, an Android device and a way to mount the butt of the blank/rod securely.  I find it does agree with my subjective conclusions on blanks and rods for sensitivity and response.  It is encouraging to me to find that higher modulus blanks have higher TNF numbers, and the lighter  the guide system the higher the TNF.   Thus indicating that we are in fact getting something for our additional dollars spent.  (in most but not all cases)

[MikeK]

On 10/25/2022 at 12:48 AM, spoonplugger1 said:

The CC system was never designed to select blanks, it was designed to compare blanks.

And designed to relate fly rods to fly lines.

But it is another piece of information that can help select a blank to match an existing rod or fit a particular fishing technique if the info is available.

 

To me the NP844 is a weird design to be called a popping rod because it is so fast.  I think I have one in the rack that I can measure the full length tip angle on if you are interested.

 

I agree with the generalization that removing so much tip will probably make it useless but the CCS measurement may disprove that.

 

Mick, the TNF for the rod with a new tip added is 490.

[MickD]

21 hours ago, MikeK said:

And designed to relate fly rods to fly lines.

But it is another piece of information that can help select a blank to match an existing rod or fit a particular fishing technique if the info is available.

 

To me the NP844 is a weird design to be called a popping rod because it is so fast.  I think I have one in the rack that I can measure the full length tip angle on if you are interested.

 

I agree with the generalization that removing so much tip will probably make it useless but the CCS measurement may disprove that.

 

Mick, the TNF for the rod with a new tip added is 490.

And works for any rod.  "Full length tip angle. . . "  What does that mean?  CCS has a process for measuring action and involves the whole rod, not just the "tip," whatever that is.  

 

CCS just measures what the rod is for two attributes ; it doesn't involve anything about whether the rod is acceptable or not.  It's just a power number and an action number.  You come to the conclusions regarding acceptability.  

[MikeK]

I gave CCS power and action and for the broken rod.  By definition since the rod is now 78" deflection will be to 26".  I think I have another NP844 that I can measure at with its manufactured 7' length so deflection will be to 28".  Tip angle will be higher than for the broken rod.

[MickD]

The AA is the angle relative to horizontal, and for the broken rod I almost can guarantee it will be lower than the intact rod.  Measure it and you will see.

 

The broken rod would have a higher AA if it initially was an XF rod and the intact rod was a very slow action rod.  Higher means steeper relative to horizontal.  15 degrees is low.  45 is higher.  75 is even higher.  Relative to horizontal which is zero.  

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

4” is a lot of the tip on that rod. It’s not good for much of anything bass fishing wise. You could cut it down more and make a lure retriever out of it. Salvage the parts you can. It might cast real heavy moving baits or lead weight for pike or catfish. It’s cheap and easy to throw a tip on it and see for yourself.