Spinnerbait rod - Buy a duplicate of a rod that does everything perfectly but is an 8.5/10 comfort wise or try different?

[Cgolf]

I have a Kaden 714 BC that casts both 1/4 ounce and 1/2 ounce baits effortlessly, but the only downside is something about it I am not 100% comfortable with to say it is perfect. It isn't uncomfortable but its a very small something. The MHM Victory wasn't up to the task, but it was  a 10/10 comfort wise, but didn't have enough backbone. So do I get a second Kaden or pick up a Vicxtory 7'3" Heavy moderate fast? 

 

I am leaning towards the Kaden since there will be no guarantee that the second victory will be as comfortable as the one I have and I also know the Kaden does everything I need it to. I do carry two rigged spinnerbait rods with the two lure weights listed above. 

[MickD]

It's a crap shoot without numbers.  If you can do CCS to measure the power and action, and can buy from a source that allows return, then you can measure the new rod, compare, and make a better decision.  

[Deleted account]

5 minutes ago, MickD said:

It's a crap shoot without numbers.  If you can do CCS to measure the power and action, and can buy from a source that allows return, then you can measure the new rod, compare, and make a better decision.  

You understood that?...

[casts_by_fly]

1/4-1/2 oz spinnerbaits are bread and butter weights to cast for any MH/MF.  I suspect the problem you had with the St Croix was the action being too slow and bending too much for your preferences.  Going up one action rating should make a marked difference.  Going from a MH/M to a H/MF is going to be a bigger difference. You should be able to see on the manufacturer's website if they have the same componentry, and thus feel in the hand.

 

For me, the comfort in holding a rod and reel combo is paramount.  You're always holding it so if its not comfortable to hold then it isn't right.  

[NavyToad]

The 714C and Kadens in general are the fastest action rods in the Dobyns lineup. I had a 714C and it tired me out throwing 3/8oz spinnerbaits for that reason. The Sierra and Champion 734C are much better suited for spinnerbaits and more “comfortable”. I’ve thrown spinnerbaits on my Kaden 714C for an hour, then picked up the Champion 734 and I noticed relief to my forearm instantly.

My Kaden 714 broke (my fault) and I traded it in for a Kaden 744C. The 744 is only 3” longer but is (to me) a completely different rod. I use it for swim jigs and I think it would be good for spinnerbaits.

 

[Cgolf]

1 hour ago, casts_by_fly said:

1/4-1/2 oz spinnerbaits are bread and butter weights to cast for any MH/MF.  I suspect the problem you had with the St Croix was the action being too slow and bending too much for your preferences.  Going up one action rating should make a marked difference.  Going from a MH/M to a H/MF is going to be a bigger difference. You should be able to see on the manufacturer's website if they have the same componentry, and thus feel in the hand.

 

For me, the comfort in holding a rod and reel combo is paramount.  You're always holding it so if its not comfortable to hold then it isn't right.  

 

What ended up happening with the victory was with the rod loaded I couldn't control the fish and they would often wrap me around a reed. The MHM Victory has a supported lure weight of 3/8-7/8 and the Premier MHM has a supported lure weight of 3/8-1, but the premier is a much stiffer rod and has a ton more backbone. My MHF Avid X is rated 3/8-1 and that does allow me to control the fish to keep them from wrapping. The Kaden is HF is rated 1/4-1and that also allows me to control the fish to keep them from wrapping.

 

I think the problem is I expected the backbone of the victory to be like the premier, I knew the tip was slower from handling it in the shop which I do like. Maybe it is the difference in max lure weight in the St. Croix lineup and that extra 1/8 means a lot. This is also a unique situation tossing light baits in cover that a flipping stick might be better suited. The reed density varies from centimeters apart to feet apart.

 

Maybe I just start tossing the lighter baits on the Kaden since it does that well and tossing the heavier baits on the Avid X. I just wish I knew what it is about the Kaden that I am not 100% locked in on even though I can fish it 3 plus hours straight with no issues or discomfort.

[Deleted account]

13 minutes ago, Cgolf said:

 

What ended up happening with the victory was with the rod loaded I couldn't control the fish and they would often wrap me around a reed. The MHM Victory has a supported lure weight of 3/8-7/8 and the Premier MHM has a supported lure weight of 3/8-1, but the premier is a much stiffer rod and has a ton more backbone. My MHF Avid X is rated 3/8-1 and that does allow me to control the fish to keep them from wrapping. The Kaden is HF is rated 1/4-1and that also allows me to control the fish to keep them from wrapping.

 

I think the problem is I expected the backbone of the victory to be like the premier, I knew the tip was slower from handling it in the shop which I do like. Maybe it is the difference in max lure weight in the St. Croix lineup and that extra 1/8 means a lot. This is also a unique situation tossing light baits in cover that a flipping stick might be better suited. The reed density varies from centimeters apart to feet apart.

 

Maybe I just start tossing the lighter baits on the Kaden since it does that well and tossing the heavier baits on the Avid X. I just wish I knew what it is about the Kaden that I am not 100% locked in on even though I can fish it 3 plus hours straight with no issues or discomfort.

Ahora si comprendo. User error due to inexperience.

[NorthernBasser]

ALX ZOLO Deputy. Great spinnerbait rod. 

[Cgolf]

9 minutes ago, Deleted account said:

Ahora si comprendo. User error due to inexperience.

 

The lack of industry standards with regards to action and power make it difficult to make a purchase. Wish that will never happen is that all stores had a test pond so you could actually cast before you buy. That is really the only good way to know for sure. I got to try my Kayak on the water before I bought it and that saved me from buying a yak that wouldn't turn well.

[PhishLI]

31 minutes ago, Cgolf said:

I just wish I knew what it is about the Kaden that I am not 100% locked in on

In my opinion this isn't something you should have to think about. It's either comfortable or it isn't, even if I can't nail down precisely why. For me, I know when "I'm home" instantly with a rod. The rest can be worked out with line choice and drag settings.

[T-Billy]

1 hour ago, NavyToad said:

The 744 is only 3” longer but is (to me) a completely different rod. I use it for swim jigs and I think it would be good for spinnerbaits.

My favorite of my Dobyns. Awesome rod for spinnerbaits and swim jigs.

[casts_by_fly]

5 minutes ago, PhishLI said:

In my opinion this isn't something you should have to think about. It's either comfortable or it isn't, even if I can't nail down precisely why. For me, I know when "I'm home" instantly with a rod. The rest can be worked out with line choice and drag settings.

 

This is the same for me.  Its why I don't like round reels (they just aren't comfortable in my hand after palming non round reels and low profile reels for 30 years).  If it isn't comfortable it doesn't get fished.

 

36 minutes ago, Cgolf said:

 

What ended up happening with the victory was with the rod loaded I couldn't control the fish and they would often wrap me around a reed. The MHM Victory has a supported lure weight of 3/8-7/8 and the Premier MHM has a supported lure weight of 3/8-1, but the premier is a much stiffer rod and has a ton more backbone. My MHF Avid X is rated 3/8-1 and that does allow me to control the fish to keep them from wrapping. The Kaden is HF is rated 1/4-1and that also allows me to control the fish to keep them from wrapping.

 

I think the problem is I expected the backbone of the victory to be like the premier, I knew the tip was slower from handling it in the shop which I do like. Maybe it is the difference in max lure weight in the St. Croix lineup and that extra 1/8 means a lot. This is also a unique situation tossing light baits in cover that a flipping stick might be better suited. The reed density varies from centimeters apart to feet apart.

 

Maybe I just start tossing the lighter baits on the Kaden since it does that well and tossing the heavier baits on the Avid X. I just wish I knew what it is about the Kaden that I am not 100% locked in on even though I can fish it 3 plus hours straight with no issues or discomfort.

 

what you're describing is what I am talking about above with the action.  Your rod has plenty of power to turn a fish, you just have to know how to use it and really put a bend into the rod.  A moderate action rod will bend down to the grip when you're fighting a fish so put the power behind it and he'll turn.

 

If you don't prefer a more moderate actioned rod (see all of the discussion about the perfect chatterbait rod for discussions of glass rods, moderate actioned rods, and extra fast rods all having supporters), then you don't need a rod with more power, you need a faster action.  If the St Croix victory lineup feels good in your hands, you could go to the 7'1" MHF or the 7'3" MHF.  Both have the same handle as yours, are of similar length, and have faster actions for the same power range. 

 

 

 

[Cgolf]

3 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

This is the same for me.  Its why I don't like round reels (they just aren't comfortable in my hand after palming non round reels and low profile reels for 30 years).  If it isn't comfortable it doesn't get fished.

 

 

what you're describing is what I am talking about above with the action.  Your rod has plenty of power to turn a fish, you just have to know how to use it and really put a bend into the rod.  A moderate action rod will bend down to the grip when you're fighting a fish so put the power behind it and he'll turn.

 

If you don't prefer a more moderate actioned rod (see all of the discussion about the perfect chatterbait rod for discussions of glass rods, moderate actioned rods, and extra fast rods all having supporters), then you don't need a rod with more power, you need a faster action.  If the St Croix victory lineup feels good in your hands, you could go to the 7'1" MHF or the 7'3" MHF.  Both have the same handle as yours, are of similar length, and have faster actions for the same power range. 

 

 

 

 

The victory truly fishes like a MM rod. I can put full bend in it and not be able to control the fish. The Premier, also a moderate loads up well and I can control a fish with that rod. This kind of fishing in the reeds you almost need to surf them back to the boat. The Avid, Kaden, and Premier (with baits other than spinnerbaits) I can control their head motions to the point they can shake but not move laterally.

 

The victory doesn't do this and I why I think it is overrated on the power side. In all other scenarios I fish the victory it is an incredible rod and keeps the fish buttoned. Just when I need to power them back it is a little weak. It is like using a panfish rod to control a bass it isn't happening. Not sure I am explaining myself right.

[T-Billy]

2 hours ago, Cgolf said:

I just wish I knew what it is about the Kaden that I am not 100% locked in on even though I can fish it 3 plus hours straight with no issues or discomfort.

The reel? That Fuji seat isn't the slimmest on the market. I like a small frame reel on my dobyns rods. The Lew's SLP frame, and my SLX XT150 are very comfortable on them for me. My SLX XT found it's forever home on my Kaden 744. 

[MickD]

5 hours ago, Deleted account said:

You understood that?...

I understood what?  I don't understand this comment.

[Big Hands]

The Victory MHM weighs 3.4 ounces? And is a medium heavy with a moderate action.

 

The Kaden rod weight isn't listed but since it is a Heavy/Fast rod, I would hazard a guess that it's closer to 4 ounces, or possibly more, and some of that weight is likely to be further out from the foregrip. 

 

Is there a reason why you wouldn't want to open your search up again to include some other choices?

[MN Fisher]

I just recently got a Victory 73H/MF. I can say that while it comes in at a little over 4oz, it's well balanced and feels good. I even put my Patriarch 7.9 on it for home-testing as that's the reel it'll get next spring. Still well balanced and doesn't feel heavy at all.

 

Yes, this will be my spinner/chatter rig.

[Cgolf]

22 minutes ago, Big Hands said:

The Victory MHM weighs 3.4 ounces? And is a medium heavy with a moderate action.

 

The Kaden rod weight isn't listed but since it is a Heavy/Fast rod, I would hazard a guess that it's closer to 4 ounces, or possibly more, and some of that weight is likely to be further out from the foregrip. 

 

Is there a reason why you wouldn't want to open your search up again to include some other choices?

Honestly I am attempting to stick to two brands to get to know their lines better. I also have my rod selection for other techniques dialed in and don’t  see any rods getting bumped out. Only one on the fence is the MH Lews crush, and besides being orange it is a super versatile rod for cranks, jerks, and swim jigs. I would feel really bad about dropping that one. So I really can’t afford to miss. Gonna measure the handle diameters soon and see if it is the difference I am feeling.
 

it is funny for spinning rods I like the larger diameter like an ugly and the smaller diameter spinning rod handles are hard on my wrist. Will be hilarious if I am the opposite with casting rods. 

[Cgolf]

Alright so measured the Kaden, Premier, and the Victory. 
 

Kaden - 28 mm 

Premier - 27 mm

Victory - 24 - 23 mm

 

interestingly the Kaden has a little grippier cork than the premier and the premier has a slightly better feel. The victory being significantly thinner does feel better than both, see picture below, the victory is the lines and the caliper is the Kaden . I measured a couple of other rods and it seems the Victory is an outlier. Really interesting findings. 

[GetFishorDieTryin]

8 hours ago, Cgolf said:

 

The victory truly fishes like a MM rod. I can put full bend in it and not be able to control the fish. The Premier, also a moderate loads up well and I can control a fish with that rod. This kind of fishing in the reeds you almost need to surf them back to the boat. The Avid, Kaden, and Premier (with baits other than spinnerbaits) I can control their head motions to the point they can shake but not move laterally.

 

The victory doesn't do this and I why I think it is overrated on the power side. In all other scenarios I fish the victory it is an incredible rod and keeps the fish buttoned. Just when I need to power them back it is a little weak. It is like using a panfish rod to control a bass it isn't happening. Not sure I am explaining myself right.

I know what you mean.  The Victorys are very different power and even action wise to the older and SW SC lines.  The lengths and power are closer to what you would see with the older loomis e6x, with the M and MHs being a half a power or more light.  The H MF sounds rght but you would have to get your hands on it before you know for sure.