Super User slonezp Posted October 5, 2022 Super User Posted October 5, 2022 Sounds like a lot more R&D is needed to compete with good old petrol. 2 1 1
VolFan Posted October 5, 2022 Posted October 5, 2022 Not a shocker that the range would be significantly reduced by towing, especially with the base battery. It seemed like every other part of the experience was extremely positive. It’s come a long way since the original Prius and will continue.
Captain Phil Posted October 5, 2022 Posted October 5, 2022 In order for EVs to become mainstream, we need cheaper better batteries. This will happen, but it will take some time. Elon Musk is working hard on this right now. If anyone can, he can. Today's batteries are made using exotic expensive materials that are in short supply. If you Google rubber tires before WWII and after, you will see how this played out. Synthetic rubber changed an entire industry and the fortunes many countries. 2
Super User WRB Posted October 5, 2022 Super User Posted October 5, 2022 There is a undiscovered power source and Ion Lithium batteries are not the answer that has have been around for decades. The reason the Lithium battery is popular today is the high price has been accepted by the public. The political push is way ahead of the technology to support regulations forcing EV. We have magnetic energy to explore that always constant a energy around our planet. Hydrogen (H2O) in water is another source but like batteries currently too heavy. Todays deadline is set at 2035 for the end of fossil fuel power....insane! Traveling around the world at the moment it’s amazing how nearly all counties have bought into doing away with fossil fuels and backing electric energy. Tom 4
Super User gim Posted October 5, 2022 Super User Posted October 5, 2022 29 minutes ago, WRB said: Todays deadline is set at 2035 for the end of fossil fuel power That's not a deadline here. I think you meant to say its only for the current state you reside in. I do agree with @VolFan though, we're slowly getting there.
Global Moderator TnRiver46 Posted October 5, 2022 Global Moderator Posted October 5, 2022 10 years ago it was ethanol that would save the planet, now its lithium batteries, 10 years from now it’ll be some other silly idea. Yet we will all still be driving gas cars haha. No matter what happens, somebody will get rich off it 2
Super User WRB Posted October 5, 2022 Super User Posted October 5, 2022 21 minutes ago, gimruis said: That's not a deadline here. I think you meant to say its only for the current state you reside in. I do agree with @VolFan though, we're slowly getting there. 15 USA States, all of the EU, UK and several other countries, not just California. It’s coming like it or not. Tom
Super User MickD Posted October 5, 2022 Super User Posted October 5, 2022 Another insanity of this push is that so much of the battery material comes from outside the US , mostly from Communist countries. This is a national security issue. Much mined by child labor. All the supporting articles I see fail to even mention how much it will positively affect global warming. The amount is insignificant, especially with all the fossil fuel plants being built in China and India taking the numbers the wrong way. I see articles saying "The village of my ancestors is now under water," but no mention is made of how much the oceans have risen in recent history. I think it's a couple inches. This whole global warming/eliminate fossile fuels movement is full of dishonesty/hypocrisy/failure to address the major issues. 5 1
SWVABass Posted October 5, 2022 Posted October 5, 2022 I’m looking into ev’s for multiple reasons. Waiting to see what dodges new option is like here in the near future. @Mick D while I’ll agree that there is dishonesty in some of the claims made, one needs to look no further than lake mead and Powell to see the change. I grew up out west and have moved to the east, and do to water concerns have no interest in relocating back to the west in the foreseeable future. 1
Super User Bankc Posted October 5, 2022 Super User Posted October 5, 2022 With any new technology, there will be stumbling blocks. EV's are still in their infancy. But they will come around. The first ICE vehicles were much worse than a horse in virtually all aspects imaginable. But with time, they came around. It took people who could see past the limitations and problems and instead envision the possibilities to bring us to where we are now. Love it or hate it, EV's are the future. There's no way around it. And it's not just because of environmental issues, which are severe, but also geo-political and economic ones. The law of nature is adapt or die. If you don't change with the world around you, you go extinct. That's the way it's always been, and the way it always will be. 2
Super User J Francho Posted October 5, 2022 Super User Posted October 5, 2022 I follow the hoopty guy and saw this a day or so ago. Not surprising, but disappointing nonetheless. 1
Super User MickD Posted October 5, 2022 Super User Posted October 5, 2022 25 minutes ago, SWVABass said: while I’ll agree that there is dishonesty in some of the claims made, one needs to look no further than lake mead and Powell to see the change. I grew up out west and have moved to the east, and do to water concerns have no interest in relocating back to the west in the foreseeable future. Show me a scientific paper that links the western drought with CO2. 1
Super User Tennessee Boy Posted October 5, 2022 Super User Posted October 5, 2022 25 minutes ago, MickD said: Show me a scientific paper that links the western drought with CO2. Here’s one. If you want more search scholar.google.com for scientific papers on any subject include bass fishing.
Super User MickD Posted October 5, 2022 Super User Posted October 5, 2022 ". . .Standardized Precipitation Indices and the Palmer Drought Severity Index to the full suite of 22 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change General Circulation Models for three IPCC-SRES emissions scenarios (B1, A1B, and A2 from the Special Report on Emissions Scenarios (SRES) listed in order of their emissions through 2100 from high to low). . . " These IPC models are not universally accepted. They cannot even be applied to our climate history and then give a result consistent with what happened. If they cannot resurrect the history then how can they predict the future? I don't believe anything based on the IPC models. No need to debate global warming on this forum. Better that we stick to fishing in the climate we have. I'll just make one final comment, I think this country is in for a rude awakening. 1
Super User J Francho Posted October 5, 2022 Super User Posted October 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, MickD said: I'll just make one final comment, I think this country is in for a rude awakening. Let that be your final comment in the political realm. We do not permit political and religious discussion here - this is not the place. 5
Super User MN Fisher Posted October 5, 2022 Super User Posted October 5, 2022 My question is - where is all the power to charge these batteries going to come from? Right now we're at capacity. Wind and Solar - only usable in certain locations and take LOTS of 'real estate' Hydroelectric - pretty much anyplace that can have a dam has it, and with rivers dropping for the big ones, they're going to have reduced production. Nuclear - so many people afraid of accidents, but nuclear plants, especially the latest generation, have the highest safety rating of anything. Oil/Gas/Coal - they're trying to phase these out, but currently generate most of the country's power (2500 billion KWH vs 1600 billion KWH for everything else combined) https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3 Also the current grid is at capacity - you start trying to transmit all the energy needed for all these EVs and your going to experience more rolling blackouts/brownouts. EV isn't going to be feasible until the twin problems of generation and transmission of electrical power can be worked through. 8
Super User Tennessee Boy Posted October 5, 2022 Super User Posted October 5, 2022 We had a vacation booked from Saturday week to this past Saturday on Sanibel Island. We decided to cancel on the Friday before our departure because scientists said that a small tropical storm in the Caribbean that was headed straight for Nicaragua was going to make a right turn and hit Sanibel as a Cat II hurricane. We looked at the spaghetti models which showed many different paths for the storm. For a while it looked like it would go north then the projected path moved south again. In the end the models were all wrong. The consensus path when we cancelled was almost dead on to we’re it actually hit. The timing was a little off and the actual hurricane was MUCH stronger than they predicted on the Friday before. I can look at this and say the scientists are not very good at predicting hurricanes. I’m also amazed that they knew the small storm would turn and strengthen the way it did. No one ever said that Sanibel Island was doomed. When we canceled they said there was a 20% chance that there would be hurricane force winds where we were going. That was enough to convince me to cancel the trip. Turns out it was much worse than predicted and I can thank the scientists that I was not there to see it in person. Long range climate models are similar to short term weather models. There are many of them and they don’t all agree. There is enormous uncertainty in the models. There is even uncertainty about the inputs that go into the models. I certainly don’t understand the science but I respect the people who have devoted their lives to the science. Anyone that says they know what going to happen is either fooling themselves or trying to fool you. If you listen to the actual scientists they all acknowledge the uncertainty. It could be less serious than some are predicting but it could also be worse. No one thinks nothing is happening or that it’s going to get colder. Still a large volcano could come along and give us 10 years of winter at any time. Most of what I’ve read says there is a low probability of a catastrophic outcome due to climate change. That should concern all of us. It’s a very complicated problem. The solutions are not clear. All I can say is keep an open mind. When very smart people say there’s a chance that a hurricane is going to hit a vulnerable island, only a fool would ignore them. 1
Chris Catignani Posted October 5, 2022 Posted October 5, 2022 14 minutes ago, MN Fisher said: My question is - where is all the power to charge these batteries going to come from?... In my part of the woods it comes from coal. The Cumberland Fossil Plant has output of 2,500 megawatts...thats 16 billion kilowatt-hours a year. Cumberland Fossil Plant (tva.com)
Super User gim Posted October 5, 2022 Super User Posted October 5, 2022 9 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said: Most of what I’ve read says there is a low probability of a catastrophic outcome due to climate change. All one has to do is look at the current Drought Monitor and see what's happening, not only out west, but across vast portions of the country right now. People post about the lack of rain and moisture in their area, and low water levels regularly. Drought isn't something that happens in one big event like a hurricane. It occurs over a long period of time. And it takes time to recover. One big rain event isn't going to fix this. It might help lake or river levels, but it won't help the drought. My point is, that we not only need a safe supply of freshwater for daily life, but we need it to bass fish! You mentioned Lake Mead earlier in this thread. That is a great example. Tough to catch bass (or any fish) when there's a lack of water for them to reside in. Places like Arizona have golf courses every other block and all that grass needs water. Is this how we REALLY want to use our dwindling water supply? To play golf in the desert? 3
Super User MickD Posted October 5, 2022 Super User Posted October 5, 2022 1 hour ago, J Francho said: Let that be your final comment in the political realm. We do not permit political and religious discussion here - this is not the place. I said it would be and it is. Yet there are now four more comments after yours. 2
Super User slonezp Posted October 5, 2022 Author Super User Posted October 5, 2022 50 minutes ago, Chris Catignani said: In my part of the woods it comes from coal. The Cumberland Fossil Plant has output of 2,500 megawatts...thats 16 billion kilowatt-hours a year. Cumberland Fossil Plant (tva.com) And ot has too, or from hydroelectric. . Imagine how long it would take to rebuild the power infrastructure in FL if they relied on solar and wind farms for power, after Ian tore thru the state There is no "one size fits all" solution 1
SWVABass Posted October 5, 2022 Posted October 5, 2022 @MN Fisher I have a couple of plans to try to make the EV work. Planning on putting solar on my house, along with small wind generators as well. Will I save any money by doing this? Highly unlikely but I feel like I am trying to make a change albeit a small one. I have my reasons, mainly from the extreme changes I am facing in my work environment which continue to make it more hazardous for the public and the folks I supervise when sent on assignment. lots of valid questions and points to what you said, hopefully folks smarter than myself can figure that out so our kids/grandkids can enjoy the same opportunities we have.
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