Battery Q's & Suggestions

[AlabamaSpothunter]

6 minutes ago, gimruis said:

When they come down to double the cost of a standard battery, then I'll think about it.  As of right now, they're about 4 times the cost so I would expect to be getting four times the lifespan.  That is not the case.

No doubt they are the future, and superior technology....but as we see with all tech, it's very expensive to be the earliest adopters of it.    

 

I can't wait until they are more affordable.

[gim]

Just now, AlabamaSpothunter said:

No doubt they are the future, and superior technology

Right now the weight reduction is the biggest selling point.  Not the price of the life span.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

1 minute ago, gimruis said:

Right now the weight reduction is the biggest selling point.  Not the price of the life span.

Yeah, and that's the case with me.   I remove my main group of 27 lead acid daily.....not a huge deal, but lithium would be significantly lighter.

[TOXIC]

1 hour ago, gimruis said:

Right now the weight reduction is the biggest selling point.  Not the price of the life span.

It’s a selling point until you have to rework your setup (motor height/jackplate/prop, etc.) because the weight difference has messed it up.  I’ve seen some that lost speed when they went all lithium.  Correctable but still a process.  

[Big Hands]

On 10/3/2022 at 12:02 PM, casts_by_fly said:

Other likely small battery options include cordless drills and lawnmowers.  The lithiums for cordless drills are popular because a lot of guys already have them and most fishfinder units can handle voltage inputs up to 20V.  Check your own's specs.  At the higher voltage you need even less amperage and the smaller batteries work.  A 3D printed adapter is enough to get you the connections.

I have several Milwaukee M12 cordless tools and many batteries that go with them. I bought an adapter that has two wires that I soldered to a plug and I get 12v from it. I can use it to power fish finders, or other 12v devices. I figure I could get by for the day with the fish finders with a battery, maybe two. But, I find that although my fish finder (Garmin Striker 5) is hooked up to my trolling motor batteries, I only get a little interference when on the highest trolling motor speed, and even then, not always. I'm not generally trying to sort the fly poop from the pepper on the fish finder when my TM is on the highest speed, so I don't worry about it. 

=================================

Trolling motor battery requirements can vary greatly between users. If you're using it to get around, have to use it to hold your spot against current or high winds, have fish finders that have large screens, or all of those things, you might need substantially more than others. Without knowing how demanding your requirements are and what price you'll pay if they run out, it's difficult to get a good read on what will be satisfactory for you.

 

But, if you're buzzing around with a 9" Garmin abd running your trolling motor more or less all the time on higher speeds, then a single 12v battery, even a true deep cycle, probably is going to be inadequate, especially if you fish long hours and want to maintain a margin of error (because that's a good idea).

 

An Endura 30 is a cost conscious choice that will get you out there and fishing for a relatively price. I have owned a couple of them. But, in order to go a given speed in a given boat, it is my understanding that an Endura 30 at the highest speed setting will consume more power than a 50 lb thrust motor that only needs to run at a lower. setting to achieve the same speed. 

 

Any trolling motor that you run constantly and at higher speed settings is going to get warm inside, so the connections at the battery and inside the trolling motor need to be secure. If your cables get warm, they might be of insufficient size. Plugs are another source of potential trouble. If the cables are warm near the plug, or the plug itself gets hot, that is trouble headed in your direction. 

 

My personal recommendation (figuring that you do use your trolling motor quite a bit, and somewhat hard at least some of the time, along with a 9" FF) is that a single 12v deep cycle, even a group 31, is cutting it close to say the least. You could try it with a single battery, and then go to two if that doesn't work. Or, if you want not to worry about it and yet don't want to spend 'lithium money', I would suggest two Group 27 AGM (which are sealed and don't need to have water added) wired parallel for 12v output and try running your Garmin FF on the same setup before shelling out for a separate power source for that. Minn Kota (and others) sell a battery box they advertise for a Group 24 (but a Group 27 will fit in it) called the Power Center. It has a circuit breaker built into it along with a battery tester. My Endura C2 30 and Edge 55 both had no problems with the built in circuit breaker with a single 12v battery. If you run two batteries, you should run a separate charger on each of them (or a single two bank charger).

 

Run the battery cables to a heavy duty terminal block and tap off of that for your various needs (FF, lights, accessory plug, etc.), using another inline fuse or circuit breaker on anything run from there. I had my Endura hooked up to this terminal block on a 14' Valco until I swapped the Endura out for an Edge (bow mount, foot controlled) that was right next to my battery location at the bow. Never had problems with that.

 

My research suggested that if I wanted to run wet cell flooded deep cycle batteries, and was committed to maintaining them properly by keeping the cells properly topped off with distilled water, I might as well get the cheap walmart deep cycles (made by Clarios/Johnson Controls) and try to get three or maybe four good years out of them for around $100 a pop. If I wanted to get AGM sealed lead acid batteries, the Duracell AGM's from from Sam's Club are made by East Penn/Deka and come with an 18 month warranty instead of the 12 month warranty that O'Reilly's offers for the exact same battery yet charges $50 more. 

 

Most batteries are going to come from either Clarios (formerly Johnson Controls) or East Penn with different labels on them depending on what store you get them from. Even Optima was bought several years ago by Johnson Controls and they then moved production from the USA to south of the border. Some chain stores sell batteries from one manufacturer in one area, and batteries from the other in another area depending on what distribution channels are available nearby.

 

One other option would be to get two 6v golf cart batteries from Trojan (225 AH) and wire them together in series for 12v. The 225 AH units usually last years longer than the 245 AH units. They've got a little smaller footprint than even a Group 24 and those two batteries will run you all day. I had a Ranger with a 200 hp outboard, two fish finders and a trolling motor wired like that (no separate starting battery) and had no issues.

 

JMHO, good luck getting what works best for you.

[gim]

2 hours ago, Big Hands said:

and try to get three or maybe four good years out of them for around $100 a pop

That’s what I get with interstates. Size 27 deep cycles for a 24 volt bow mount got me 5 seasons. I just replaced my original cranking battery from 2015 this past spring, so I got 6 full seasons out of that. I feel like that’s pretty good for a $100 standard wet cell battery.

[Big Hands]

2 hours ago, gimruis said:

That’s what I get with interstates. Size 27 deep cycles for a 24 volt bow mount got me 5 seasons. I just replaced my original cranking battery from 2015 this past spring, so I got 6 full seasons out of that. I feel like that’s pretty good for a $100 standard wet cell battery.

I think you should be satisfied, if not outright pleased with that for sure.

[AJ Hauser]

15 hours ago, gimruis said:

... they're about 4 times the cost so I would expect to be getting four times the lifespan.  That is not the case.

 

I hear ya. I think the only way to justify the cost is to weigh the personal benefit of double time on the water. What is the value of that perk? Definitely not a 1-to-1 swap.

 

This brings to mind a few baitcasters that are 4 times the cost of some of the others in my arsenal. They all reel line, but there are benefits to the pricey ones... just comes to down how much those benefits are worth on a personal level. 

 

I'm headed out here in a bit. Chances are when my battery is getting low, I'd be willing to impulse buy a quadruple priced battery to stay out. (Too bad I'm broke!)

 

?

[AJ Hauser]

15 hours ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

Yeah, and that's the case with me.   I remove my main group of 27 lead acid daily.....not a huge deal...

 

 

Also great post @Big Hands - thanks!

[AlabamaSpothunter]

3 hours ago, AJ Hauser said:

 

 

Also great post @Big Hands - thanks!

HAHA.....made my morning ?

[Bankc]

On 10/5/2022 at 2:39 PM, gimruis said:

When they come down to double the cost of a standard battery, then I'll think about it.  As of right now, they're about 4 times the cost so I would expect to be getting four times the lifespan.  That is not the case.

I got mine for less than double the cost.  A new 100 AH lead acid is about $180.  I paid a little over $200 for a 50AH LiFePo4 lithium battery (Weize brand).  It sounds like half the battery capacity, but remember, you're not supposed to drain a lead acid below 50%, and a lithium battery can pretty much be drained until the BMS stops it.  So you're actually getting 50 amp hours out of each battery.  Also, you get a slightly higher voltage, so you get more power, which means more distance because you're running the same speed at a lower setting.  And, in a light boat like a kayak, you're pushing a lot less weight, which ups your efficiency a good bit.  

 

I sat out of the lithium game for a while too.  But I think now is a good time to get in if you're replacing our battery.  

[Bankc]

21 hours ago, Big Hands said:

An Endura 30 is a cost conscious choice that will get you out there and fishing for a relatively price. I have owned a couple of them. But, in order to go a given speed in a given boat, it is my understanding that an Endura 30 at the highest speed setting will consume more power than a 50 lb thrust motor that only needs to run at a lower. setting to achieve the same speed. 

 

Maybe...  It depends on how heavy the boat is and how hydrodynamic the hull is.  Most trolling motors run at about the same speed.  So you don't actually gain prop speed by going to a higher thrust motor.  Higher thrust motors just don't bog down as easily.  However, if you're using an undersized motor for your boat, then you will have to run it at a higher speed just to maintain the same speed you would with a proper sized motor.  And in that case, you will consume more power because the power curve of a motor is logarithmic.  A 5 speed motor typically doubles the current draw for every speed setting you go up, but sees diminishing actual speeds the higher you go up.  But so long as the motor has enough torque to properly propel the boat, then moving up to a larger trolling motor won't net you any more speed, but will consume more power at the same speed.  

 

It's a balance thing.  Too small and you're having to run the motor higher to achieve the same results.  Too big, and you're burning extra electricity needlessly.  Most manufacturers tend to over-estimate the size of boat that their trolling motors can handle, in my experience.  So when it doubt, it's still usually a good idea to go bigger.  But you don't want to go bigger just because.  

[AJ Hauser]

So two things...

 

1. I caught a few nice bass today. 

 

2. I stayed out too long and my battery got pretty low & slow again...

 

I REGRET NOTHING!! ??

 

Now... I think a battery upgrade is in my near future. Those 12V 100Ah Deep Cycle Lithiums are looking like a good investment... with my draw of 15 amps on average, would that be good for (hypothetically) 6.5 hours?

 

I had to get out the paddle again. Good workout. Said some words. Happy I caught fish though. 

 

 

[MN Fisher]

13 minutes ago, AJ Hauser said:

Those 12V 100Ah Deep Cycle Lithiums are looking like a good investment... with my draw of 15 amps on average, would that be good for (hypothetically) 6.5 hours?

I wouldn't draw it down that close to zero - but 6 hours would be entirely feasible.

[AJ Hauser]

10-4, thanks @MN Fisher!

 

[Big Hands]

19 hours ago, Bankc said:

It's a balance thing.  Too small and you're having to run the motor higher to achieve the same results.  Too big, and you're burning extra electricity needlessly.  Most manufacturers tend to over-estimate the size of boat that their trolling motors can handle, in my experience.  So when it doubt, it's still usually a good idea to go bigger.  But you don't want to go bigger just because.  

Agreed. And dealers will gladly spec an underpowered trolling motor (same deal with the outboard on base models) to be able to have a TM on the boat to attract buyers.

 

And in my experience, an Endura C2 30 is underpowered to some degree on just about anything that doesn't resemble a floating bathtub.

[AJ Hauser]

1 minute ago, Big Hands said:

And in my experience, an Endura C2 30 is underpowered to some degree on just about anything that doesn't resemble a floating bathtub.

 

... I feel like that was a personal attack...

 

Here is my bathtub. 

 

[flyfisher]

On 10/5/2022 at 3:39 PM, gimruis said:

When they come down to double the cost of a standard battery, then I'll think about it.  As of right now, they're about 4 times the cost so I would expect to be getting four times the lifespan.  That is not the case.

It kind of is the case though if not longer.  I know my Li battery has an 11 year warranty.

[GaryH]

1 hour ago, flyfisher said:

It kind of is the case though if not longer.  I know my Li battery has an 11 year warranty.

Agree.   4 top tier agm batteries 3 for TM and 1 starting will run around $1000 and come with a 36 month warranty 

3 Ionic batteries for TM and 1 for starting cost me just under $2000 and come with a 11 year warranty and went from 240 lbs. to 83 lbs. after a year of use I have no regrets. Not to mention a little better gas mileage with the less weight.

 

[A-Jay]

28 minutes ago, GaryH said:

Agree.   4 top tier agm batteries 3 for TM and 1 starting will run around $1000 and come with a 36 month warranty 

3 Ionic batteries for TM and 1 for starting cost me just under $2000 and come with a 11 year warranty and went from 240 lbs. to 83 lbs. after a year of use I have no regrets. Not to mention a little better gas mileage with the less weight.

 

Nice.

If I may ask,

what did you get ?

A-Jay

[Big Hands]

2 hours ago, AJ Hauser said:

 

... I feel like that was a personal attack...

 

Here is my bathtub. 

 

I apologize if you felt attacked. That was certainly not my intention.

 

Good luck with your project.

 

[AJ Hauser]

34 minutes ago, Big Hands said:

Good luck with your project.

 

 

... you mean good luck with my bathtub?!? ??

 

Actually most bathtubs are nicer... 

[GaryH]

1 hour ago, A-Jay said:

Nice.

If I may ask,

what did you get ?

A-Jay

Ionic  125ah for starting, 3 birds w/mega 360, 2 PP’s. 3 50ah for the Ultrex  

 

 

The only thing they won’t out work is you.???

[A-Jay]

1 hour ago, GaryH said:

Ionic  125ah for starting, 3 birds w/mega 360, 2 PP’s. 3 50ah for the Ultrex  

 

 

The only thing they won’t out work is you.???

Thanks  - Did you pick up an on board charger as well ?

A-Jay

[flyfisher]

1 hour ago, GaryH said:

Ionic  125ah for starting, 3 birds w/mega 360, 2 PP’s. 3 50ah for the Ultrex  

 

 

The only thing they won’t out work is you.???

I also run Ionic for my kayak battery---2 30ah wired in series to get me the 24v needed.  Been using them 2 years now and no concerns.  I love their app as well to monitor battery life.