7' vs 7'3 vs 7'6

[Boomstick]

45 minutes ago, MickD said:

Extra fast refers to where the rod initially bends.  Yes , it is not the stiffness.  In fact Xfast rods of the same power as other actions will have the softest, less stiff, tips.  I don't even know what a "longer tip" is.  Where does the tip start and end?  

By longer tip I mean the rod is maybe 30% tip instead of 20%.

[Spankey]

2 hours ago, Boomstick said:

Typically, extra fast typically refers to the length of the tip, not the stiffness. It is common that extra fast tips have softer tips than the fast from the same line. Of course as we know all manufacturers are different, and some are not consistent in this regard in the same line.

 

A perfect example is the St Croix Victory line. The 7'3" H/XF "Full Contact Finesse" rod has a very short but soft tip, and then it's solid backbone after that, but it makes a very good jig rod. The 7'3" MH/F "The Marshall" has a longer tip, but it's much stiffer.

I have to agree with you 100%. I was given a VTS73MXF as a retirement present from two work buddies. That is the feel of this rod also. I hated this rod when I first started fishing it but has grown on me to where it is one of my favorite. I had a heck of a time with the longer fore end. Couldn’t get the tip of my index finger to touch rod blank when gripping real seat. 

[MickD]

54 minutes ago, Boomstick said:

By longer tip I mean the rod is maybe 30% tip instead of 20%.

But how do you define where the tip begins?  It is not a definite thing, like a mark on the blank.  It is where you want it to be.  Purely subjective.  Instead, define the action by CCS.  

[WRB]

1 hour ago, Spankey said:

I have to agree with you 100%. I was given a VTS73MXF as a retirement present from two work buddies. That is the feel of this rod also. I hated this rod when I first started fishing it but has grown on me to where it is one of my favorite. I had a heck of a time with the longer fore end. Couldn’t get the tip of my index finger to touch rod blank when gripping real seat. 

Put your finger tip on the line. The handle on Victory spinning rods are Aaron Martens Megabass Spinning rod design and I like it!

Tom

[1984isNOW]

Not for nothing, but I bumped into another example of a professional fisherman saying action can impact sensitivity.

 

But like I think was missed when I said it - that is merely a factor, and like when I acknowledged material has a part as well, he also agrees with that.

 

But I'd be curious what you hard core mother xf'ers think about what he says- because he advises against it haha

[Catt]

8 hours ago, PUTitinYOURmouthFISH said:

But I'd be curious what you hard core mother xf'ers think about what he says- because he advises against it haha

 

You can not compare a swimjig bite to a chatterbait bite to a jig-n-craw bite.

 

When your Jig-n-Craw or Texas Rig is setting on the bottom & a bass picks it up there is no rod bending taking place.

 

With moving baits you're pulling one direction while the bass is pulling the opposite direction. Now you have what he's talking about. 

 

It's kinda like this notion I will miss bites because I'm throwing mono & mono stretches when the bass inhales my lure.

 

No it doesn't 

 

If you're letting the bass pull hard enough to put bend in your rod or stretch in your line, that's on you not the rod or line.

[MickD]

A 7-6 extra fast rod is a 6-6 moderate action rod on a stick.  

 

The point is that long extra fast rods are more forgiving than short extra fast rods.  

[Spankey]

9 hours ago, WRB said:

Put your finger tip on the line. The handle on Victory spinning rods are Aaron Martens Megabass Spinning rod design and I like it!

Tom

Yep, finger the line. Unfortunately I have not gotten my mega river smallie for the season yet but I’m liking the longer fore end when it comes to controlling than boating the fish. My hand moves forward away from the reel seat and I get a good grip on the fore end. Was a bit of a learning curve or just getting use to something different. And getting it as a gift I did want to use it. Way too nice of a rod to only have set around unused. 

[1984isNOW]

1 hour ago, Catt said:

 

You can not compare a swimjig bite to a chatterbait bite to a jig-n-craw bite.

 

When your Jig-n-Craw or Texas Rig is setting on the bottom & a bass picks it up there is no rod bending taking place.

 

With moving baits you're pulling one direction while the bass is pulling the opposite direction. Now you have what he's talking about. 

 

It's kinda like this notion I will miss bites because I'm throwing mono & mono stretches when the bass inhales my lure.

 

No it doesn't 

 

If you're letting the bass pull hard enough to put bend in your rod or stretch in your line, that's on you not the rod or line.

I was thinking the same thing - his friends should know better if their HIS friends, unless he's been that stingy with fishing tips in the past haha. 

47 minutes ago, MickD said:

A 7-6 extra fast rod is a 6-6 moderate action rod on a stick.  

 

The point is that long extra fast rods are more forgiving than short extra fast rods.  

Very interesting you say that, I would've thought that but I've heard people say that they've experienced the reverse on the same line of rods with same powers - only difference being length and they experienced a stiffer longer rod. But what you said is exactly what I would've deduced without any actual hands on time.

[Boomstick]

12 hours ago, MickD said:

But how do you define where the tip begins?  It is not a definite thing, like a mark on the blank.  It is where you want it to be.  Purely subjective.  Instead, define the action by CCS.  

If you put line on it and tug on the line or simply set your drag, it's pretty easy to narrow it down to a spot on the XF rod with the softer tip, since it goes from a quick bend to solid backbone quickly. It's a little more challenging to do the same on the rods with a stiffer tip.

[MickD]

1 hour ago, PUTitinYOURmouthFISH said:

I've heard people say that they've experienced the reverse on the same line of rods with same powers

The problem is that the subjective descripters power and action are often inconsistent.  What is called "fast" may not be "fast."  One line of blanks, highly regarded, has about 6 light and ultra light blanks that they call "X-fast," but the action angles (that's CCS number for action, usually people would consider a rod with an AA of 55 a "slow" action, an AA of 80 a "X-fast.")  vary from 55 to 80.  Clearly, not all X-fast.   Same variation with power.  However, CCS is about solid numbers.  All rods with the same numbers will have close to the same power and action but not necessarily the same dynamic characteristics like recovery speed.

[1984isNOW]

@MickD  Is that data available anywhere for mass produced rods? Can a layman determine these numbers or are expensive tools needed?

 

This is the other side of fishing that also intrigues me. 

 

If I didn't have a family and need a job to make money to pay bills and buy food and keep them safe and we didn't have a societal structure that requires 66% of my life to be working and sleeping/preparing for tomorrow's work I'd have more time to explore these things. 

 

I'd love to build a rod or experiment with some rods, but there's just no time in life to enjoy it haha

[MickD]

I have no idea whether the rod manufacturers have CCS data or not, but I know that the blank makers do have it.  They have been reluctant to publish the numbers, but that is slowly changing.  One reason for their reluctance is that as soon as they publish something definitive, some of us will challenge their data when we don't get the same number.  I know they have the numbers because I have asked for them and they have provided them.  I take my own numbers so have asked only a few times to check correlation.  You don't need expensive equipment or a lot of space.  The link to CCS shows a big sheet of pegboard being used, and yes, this is the best way to do it.  But you can do the numbers without it.  You need to be able to hold the butt of the blank/rod so that it can be leveled (with 10 % of the blank length between the supports of the butt), then you load it to bend it 1/3 of its length, then measure the weight it took to bend it.  (grams).  This number is the Intrinsic Power of the blank/rod.  Then measure the angle the tip makes with horizontal (while loaded) and you have the action angle (AA).  The process in no way harms the rod, so one could buy a rod and return it if the numbers are not what he wanted.  https://www.common-cents.info/  

 

Message me with your email address if you want me to send you a file that shows my setup.  It really doesn't take anything expensive and anyone sort of handy can cobble a setup that will work.

[WRB]

XF Extra Fast rods have a more flexible tip down to about 12” then a F Fast action rod. Both load up under load nearly equal regarding power.

The more flexible tip allows more controlled slack line movements important working lures in place like a drop shot rig. 
Tom

[RB 77]

On 10/16/2022 at 3:43 PM, PUTitinYOURmouthFISH said:

@Catt@RB 77  @T-Billy @FishTank @otherpeoplewhouseanXFrod

 

When you're bringing a fish in don't you find it necessary to keep more pressure and bring'em in quick so they don't find slack and get off? Any problems with ripped mouths?

 

Are you using braid with your XF?

 
Yup. Hammer down a hookset and keep em' pinned with steady pressure until they are in the boat. No problem with ripped mouths. Braid, mono, flouro, etc. it's all good.