Spinnerbait Blade Thickness/Cupping

[LrgmouthShad]

Hey y’all,

 

Curious about your thoughts on the merits of thin blades versus thick blades and shallow cup versus deep cup. Not a simple “which one is better?” but your thoughts on when one might work better be that fishing depth, season, interactions with the rest of the spinnerbait, whatever. 
 

I recently built spinnerbaits but forgot to consider this. Just used mostly Hildebrandts cuz I like em. 
 

Spinnerbait lovers…. Enjoy. Whatcha got?

Edited September 18, 2022 by LrgmouthShad

[rboat]

Best spinnerbait I ever had (lost it to a snag), had paper thin blades that had hammered dimples and very little cupping. Those blades would move in the water at all times and made a ton of flash. I am not sure what made it special, but it worked very well steady retrieve just under the surface. The brand was discontinued many years ago and have not found anything that could replace it. ? I agree Hildbrandts work pretty good.

[FrnkNsteen]

I'm definitely not a spinnerbait expert, but in my experience, and what just seems to be more logical is that a thinner lighter blade will turn easier so should work better than a heavier blade at slower speeds.

 

Deeper cupping seems to put off more vibration and may better in water with kower clarity, or deeper darker water.

[Captain Phil]

4 hours ago, LrgmouthShad said:

Just used mostly Hildebrandts cuz I like em. 

 

That's all you need to know.  ☺️

[Catt]

Stanley Spinnerbaits

Vibra-Shaft is a precision ground tapered shaft, ground from .041 to .018, for maximum vibration.

 

The Wedge Blade is one of the most popular blade design for spinnerbaits ever made.  What makes it special is the special variable thickness of the blade. The front of the blade has a thickness of .015 and increases in diameter to .030 to the back of the blade.

 

Stanley Jigs® Vibra-Wedge combines 2 innovative designs into one for a spinnerbait with maximum thump and vibration. This incredible lure uses 2 patents—the Vibrashaft and Wedge blades—to produce more water displacement than any other spinnerbait on the market.

[Jar11591]

5 hours ago, FrnkNsteen said:

I'm definitely not a spinnerbait expert, but in my experience, and what just seems to be more logical is that a thinner lighter blade will turn easier so should work better than a heavier blade at slower speeds.

 

Deeper cupping seems to put off more vibration and may better in water with kower clarity, or deeper darker water.

This has been my experience as well. 

[LrgmouthShad]

52 minutes ago, Catt said:

Stanley Spinnerbaits

Vibra-Shaft is a precision ground tapered shaft, ground from .041 to .018, for maximum vibration.

 

The Wedge Blade is one of the most popular blade design for spinnerbaits ever made.  What makes it special is the special variable thickness of the blade. The front of the blade has a thickness of .015 and increases in diameter to .030 to the back of the blade.

 

Stanley Jigs® Vibra-Wedge combines 2 innovative designs into one for a spinnerbait with maximum thump and vibration. This incredible lure uses 2 patents—the Vibrashaft and Wedge blades—to produce more water displacement than any other spinnerbait on the market.

One of the exceptions to the Hildebrandts I bought was that I did buy some Wedge blades. I’m going back and forth on whether I want a bait like this to have the Hildebrandt or the Wedge and think I ought to try the wedge. One thing I noticed when throwing a wedge spinnerbait a while back is that they really run with considerably more water resistance and can make a spinnerbait more apt to rolling if the same size blade is used. But this is a 5/8oz head, heavy enough to carry this blade combo I think.

[scaleface]

Deep cupped blades are not worth a hoot as the secondary blade . I accidentally added one to a spinnerbait this year and it barely turned on the clevis . I   flattened it out and got it to work to my liking . 

[Captain Phil]

I live and fish where the fishing pressure is relentless.  Our boat ramp parking lots overflow every weekend.  On the weekdays, it's nearly as bad.  There are at least three club tournaments every weekend plus the National Tournaments.  This makes our bass extremely picky. They see so many spinnerbaits, they can probably tell you which Walmart they were purchased at.  To combat this, you need to fish differently than the hoards. Changing blades is one way to make this happen.  I have seen days when the slightest change can make a difference.  Flash and vibration are the two things a spinnerbait brings to the table.   If you hold a Hildebrandt blade in your hand next to a No Name blade you can see the quality.  Other than the visual differences, there are design differences as well.  I don't work for Hildebrandt, nor do I sell them.  I am stating this strictly from experience. 

 

Downsizing and upsizing the blades can also make a significant difference.  The biggest difference in spinnerbait success comes from where you throw it.  Where I fish, you can't normally chuck a spinnerbait all over the lake and catch a bunch of bass.  You have to be selective.  The retrieve speed is in second place.  Spinnerbaits work best when retrieved slow and as close to cover as possible with repeated casts to the same target.   Close can be inches.  Sometimes I use a 3/0 Reel to slow my baits down. Will cheap spinnerbaits catch fish?  Absolutely.  The difference is in the quality of the result. 

[Jigfishn10]

Very loose rules of thumb. You still need to match the blade to head weight, blade arm length and wire length from lead head to blade arm.

 

The flatter the blade the more drag = more thump

More cup = less drag and less thump

Bigger blade = more thump, slow retrieve

Smaller blade = less thump, fast retrieve

Thicker blade = more thump, harder to start-up, fast retrieve

Thinner blade = less thump (than thicker blades), easier to start up, slower retrieve

[scaleface]

  The Blakemore C.C. Spinner had a deeply cupped Colorado blade . I caught a lot of nice bass on that lure but never saw the advantage of that cupped blade . I make my own now and have pretty much abandoned deep cupped and  Colorados    . Even in chocolate milk colored water  . I have some large old style  Strike King copper willows with the flared sides   that produce  great in mud . The rest of the year I just scale back and usually opt for gold willows from different manufacturers  . If it feels right to me I fish it , if it doesnt feel right then it doesnt get used .

 

Heres the Strike King blade that I like for mud .

[ChrisD46]

17 hours ago, Captain Phil said:

 

That's all you need to know.  ☺️

If I replace spinnerbait blades - I use Hildebrandts as they are the best (especially their Colorado blades - they really thump !)

[LrgmouthShad]

3 hours ago, Jigfishn10 said:

Very loose rules of thumb. You still need to match the blade to head weight, blade arm length and wire length from lead head to blade arm.

 

The flatter the blade the more drag = more thump

More cup = less drag and less thump

Bigger blade = more thump, slow retrieve

Smaller blade = less thump, fast retrieve

Thicker blade = more thump, harder to start-up, fast retrieve

Thinner blade = less thump (than thicker blades), easier to start up, slower retrieve

Thank you! I am only trying to figure out why a thinner blade has a slower retrieve if it also has less thump. The rest makes sense to me. Is there another way you can explain it to my mind? 

[LrgmouthShad]

2 hours ago, ChrisD46 said:

especially their Colorado blades - they really thump !)

The #6 Hildebrandt colorado is ridongculous. Maybe because it is super flat.  Think some of the 3/4oz booyah coverts single colorado come with it. That’s when you really want a slow reel, lol. 

[Jigfishn10]

24 minutes ago, LrgmouthShad said:

Thank you! I am only trying to figure out why a thinner blade has a slower retrieve if it also has less thump. The rest makes sense to me. Is there another way you can explain it to my mind? 

My apologies, I should have explained better.

Thinner blades are easier to start up and keep spinning at a slower retrieve. It doesn't mean you can't fish them fast, b/c you can. Picture yourself in a cold water situation? If you want to slow roll in clear water, what would you like in a spinnerbait? For me, I would start out with an easier starting blade, fished as slow as possible making the least noise, yet putting out vibration IF it were a bright day, sun overhead. If slow doesn't work, then speed up. The thin blade allows you to do that. Heavier blades are harder to start up and would need to be retrieved faster to keep moving. Please bear in mind, I'm talking about "like" blades with the exception of the metal thickness.

 

Now, that is a very small part of the rabbit hole to go down in. You know as well as I that a more stream lined blade like a willow will fish faster than a Colorado & Indiana. So all things being equal, a #4 willow will fish faster than a #4 Colorado. What if you took a #5 willow? More mass, slower retrieve and you get the same attributes as a #4 Colorado.

 

If I were to spinnerbait fish as much as I used to, I would concentrate on using a willow blade and worry about cup or crease and how deep cup or crease is. I would also use just smooth blades and use nickel, gold (although brass was my number one) and white. Hammered blades do have a place, I guess.  

[LrgmouthShad]

7 minutes ago, Jigfishn10 said:

My apologies, I should have explained better.

Thinner blades are easier to start up and keep spinning at a slower retrieve. It doesn't mean you can't fish them fast, b/c you can. Picture yourself in a cold water situation? If you want to slow roll in clear water, what would you like in a spinnerbait? For me, I would start out with an easier starting blade, fished as slow as possible making the least noise, yet putting out vibration IF it were a bright day, sun overhead. If slow doesn't work, then speed up. The thin blade allows you to do that. Heavier blades are harder to start up and would need to be retrieved faster to keep moving. Please bear in mind, I'm talking about "like" blades with the exception of the metal thickness.

 

Now, that is a very small part of the rabbit hole to go down in. You know as well as I that a more stream lined blade like a willow will fish faster than a Colorado & Indiana. So all things being equal, a #4 willow will fish faster than a #4 Colorado. What if you took a #5 willow? More mass, slower retrieve and you get the same attributes as a #4 Colorado.

 

If I were to spinnerbait fish as much as I used to, I would concentrate on using a willow blade and worry about cup or crease and how deep cup or crease is. I would also use just smooth blades and use nickel, gold (although brass was my number one) and white. Hammered blades do have a place, I guess.  

That’s all very interesting, thanks. What do you think happens with a blade like the Stanley Wedge, with it being variable thickness? 

[Jigfishn10]

11 minutes ago, LrgmouthShad said:

That’s all very interesting, thanks. What do you think happens with a blade like the Stanley Wedge, with it being variable thickness? Is it easier to start because of thinness around connection to swivel? Or should it be looked at in its entirety? 

I can't really comment on the wedge, I've never fished or seen one, so I really can't tell you what makes them "tick", so to speak. 

 

Head weight and blade size all needs to be balanced for the bait to work, my guess is that Stanley has those 2 components dialed in.

[king fisher]

     I used to make hundreds of inline spinners with a French style blade I used for silver salmon.  Silvers were easy to catch on spinners, making it easy to determine which spinners were working best.  I would catch 2 in ten casts with one spinner than catch 10 in 10 casts with another.  That kind of comparison can be difficult to do with fish that don't bite as well as salmon.

        I could buy cheaper blades that were thin, or more more expensive thicker blades.  The companies that made thicker blades were quick to point out the better quality trying to justify the higher price.   All factors, such as size and color being equal, the thicker blades out preformed the thinner blades by a large margin.  I have no idea why, and I don't know if the results would be the same with another species of fish. I also am not even able to make an educated guess if thicker blades would help or hurt a spinnerbait.  

     All I can say for certain is thicker #4 and #5 French blades worked far better for Silver Salmon than thinner blades.

     I prefer Stanley wedge, for willow leaf, blades, and Hildebrandt for Colorado, and Indiana blades on my spinnerbaits for bass.  I don't know if spending the extra money helps, but I'm quite sure it doesn't hurt.

[Jigfishn10]

14 minutes ago, LrgmouthShad said:

That’s all very interesting, thanks. What do you think happens with a blade like the Stanley Wedge, with it being variable thickness? 

Does the blade gradually get thicker from swivel to the rear of the blade?

[LrgmouthShad]

2 minutes ago, Jigfishn10 said:

Head weight and blade size all needs to be balanced for the bait to work

Where it is heavy enough to prevent bait from rolling but not so heavy that the bait will not run flat? I was talking with @Deleted account about this.

 

Do you also like your spinnerbaits to run as flat as possible? Seems like if the goal is to make sure there is enough lift for the bait without rolling, then a bait that is more apt to run true is valuable because you can get away with more torque and speed without rolling? 
 

If get a few more people in here, I hope this thread to go crazy. I love talking SBs.

5 minutes ago, Jigfishn10 said:

Does the blade gradually get thicker from swivel to the rear of the blade?

Yes. Quick search says around 0.015 to 0.030

 

I notice that compared to a hildebrandt, the front of a Stanley is a bit thinner but the back of the blade is crazy thick.

[Jigfishn10]

8 minutes ago, LrgmouthShad said:

Where it is heavy enough to prevent bait from rolling but not so heavy that the bait will not run flat? I was talking with @Deleted account about this.

 

Do you also like your spinnerbaits to run as flat as possible? Seems like if the goal is to make sure there is enough lift for the bait without rolling, then a bait that is more apt to run true is valuable because you can get away with more torque and speed without rolling? 
 

If get a few more people in here, I hope this thread to go crazy. I love talking SBs.

I don't think I understand your terminology? Lift to me is the ability for the bait to be fished near the surface at the slowest speed. Bigger and rounder blades provide more "lift". 

 

I'm in a region where slow rolling down the bottom at the slowest speed produces more. Smaller more stream lined blades allow for slow rolling the bottom.

 

Spinnerbaits that roll over to me, are baits where the blade size is on the extreme end of the head's weight. Should be fished slow and rolls over when fished fast. 

 

What does "run as flat as possible" mean?

[LrgmouthShad]

2 minutes ago, Jigfishn10 said:

I don't think I understand your terminology? Lift to me is the ability for the bait to be fished near the surface at the slowest speed. Bigger and rounder blades provide more "lift". 

 

I'm in a region where slow rolling down the bottom at the slowest speed produces more. Smaller more stream lined blades allow for slow rolling the bottom.

 

Spinnerbaits that roll over to me, are baits where the blade size is on the extreme end of the head's weight. Should be fished slow and rolls over when fished fast. 

 

What does "run as flat as possible" mean?

I’ll get back to you. Busy for next hour or so

[Captain Phil]

Here are three premium spinnerbait blades all approximately the same size.  The top blade is a Stanley Wedge, the middle blade is a Hildebrandt and the bottom blade is a Terminator.  As you can see the top and bottom blades are creased while the middle blade is plain.  The plating on all three blades is excellent.  In the water, the Hildebrandt blade gives off more flash. It also has a somewhat deeper cup.  The most significant difference is in the shape. The Hildebrandt blade is more like a parabolic mirror. The two other blades have less reflective surface.  I am not sure why the Hildebrandt blades catch more fish for me.  Confidence is a big part of it, but they do.   Hildebrandt has been making blades for over 100 years and even with all the modern computer innovations, they are still in demand.  Got to be a reason?

 

[LrgmouthShad]

2 hours ago, Jigfishn10 said:

What does "run as flat as possible" mean

Disclaimer: these are beliefs

 

Spinnerbaits run at a certain angle from horizontal. The bait itself. Not talking about rising/falling. I learned this from…. and I’m ashamed to say this… a Tactical Bassin video. There was some underwater footage. So I started to reason the different factors as to what would affect running angle and I came up with the ratio of the two wire lengths that you mentioned earlier and the ratio of blade size creating lift and drag versus the weight of the head trying to pull the spinnerbait down. By lift I mean the same thing you do. Larger blades causing a spinnerbait to rise more, but the drag is also pulling the angle of the spinnerbait upward I believe. If someone smarter than me would care to correct my assumptions, I will be overjoyed. And speed also factors into the equation. So that a heavy headed spinnerbait with small blades might be able to run close to horizontal… I think
 

@Deleted account come on I need ya help here. And others!

[Jigfishn10]

Ahhh...I'm smellin what you're steppin in. All good.

 

From my observations, the blade arm will be parallel with the surface because of the drag the blades present. The head arm - wire from lead head to line tie - of the bait is bent up to get the body to ride more horizontal. 

 

You have a good understanding here. Keep digging, there is a ton of information out there to design your goldilocks spinnerbait.