Shimano Metanium Backlash Central

[Cjmm]

Hey everyone. I’ve always read information on here but never posted or commented. Anyway I cannot figure out this dang metanium 2020. It backlashes constantly. Light lures, heavy lures, brakes on 4 or brakes on 2. Heavy bombing to lobbing. It’s the JDM version. Now I have a Daiwa zillion that casts a mile and rarely ever backlashes and that’s even with bombing it. I saw someone said if the spool isn’t engaged correctly that it can cause backlash but I’m pretty sure mines correct because it tightens when I tighten the spool tension and it’ll loosen when I loosen the knob. Has anyone had this issue with the new metanium? Also I have 40 lb sufix 832 braid to a PLine 12 or 15 lb flouro. Thanks. 

[Tatulatard]

Adjust the brake dial.  

[T-Billy]

Might just be the nature of the beast. My Curados, Scorpions, and SLX XT are all a bit finicky to dial in and require more thumb input than my Lew's or Daiwas, but they're the longest casting reels I own.

[newapti5]

Besides adjusting brake dial on the sideplate, how tight is the spool tension set to? Due to the SVS brake design, modern Shimano reels' brakes won't function well if the spool tension is too loose. Try to set it to just eliminating the side-to-side play on the spool. 

 

Also, just as mentioned above, MGL spools aren't as stable as SV spools if you cast it too hard. With MGL spools, you don't have to whip it hard to get great casting results. 

 

If none of these works, try to change the spool bearings - they might be damaged due to contamination. 

[ska4fun]

1 hour ago, newapti5 said:

Besides adjusting brake dial on the sideplate, how tight is the spool tension set to? Due to the SVS brake design, modern Shimano reels' brakes won't function well if the spool tension is too loose. Try to set it to just eliminating the side-to-side play on the spool. 

 

Also, just as mentioned above, MGL spools aren't as stable as SV spools if you cast it too hard. With MGL spools, you don't have to whip it hard to get great casting results. 

 

If none of these works, try to change the spool bearings - they might be damaged due to contamination. 

 

In no way or form this will work. ''Zero-adjust'' only works on braking were control is delivered during all of the cast, a.k.a mag braking and its linear derivatives.

[newapti5]

32 minutes ago, ska4fun said:

 

In no way or form this will work. ''Zero-adjust'' only works on braking were control is delivered during all of the cast, a.k.a mag braking and its linear derivatives.

 

Well, with some thumbing of course. What I tried to say is, don't set the spool tension too loose, at least with no side-to-side play. That's what I do with all my reels, no matter what brands.

 

Also, Magforce braking isn't linear braking. 

[WRB]

If you have the skills to cast the Zillion effectively and backlash the JDM Metanium it’s the reel.

Suggest contacting Dan Isaac at ReelEx, Dan is a highly skilled Shimano reel tech and well worth your effort.

Tom

[JustJames]

I’m not sure if 2020 Metanium use the same silent tune as older bantam MGL. That spring will keep the spool act as no side to side play even though it is pretty loose. Some Shimano reel I need to set spool tension a little tighter especially with braid. I don’t whip cast as hard when using Shimano compare to Daiwa. It just different system one with very fast spool (Shimano) and another with stronger brake profile all around. I need more thumb to tether the puffing line more with Shimano.

I used to have this problem a lot when switching between Curado 70 and Daiwa alphas SV.

[ghost]

You know there are 4 brake pads on the spool. You'll need to watch a youtube video on how to take off side plate. It's not like other baitcast reels to take off side plate.

 

I have 2 of the inner brakes on and 2 off. I've not had a real bad backlash with the Metanium. 

[EzyEric]

Take spool out and put it back in. Heard with the new spring system it could be out of wack.

[Tatulatard]

What is your brake setting on the external dial? There is an external dial for the centrifugal race and no amount of internal brakes on is going to help if the dial is set to zero.

[LonnieP]

The spool tension has to be a lot tighter on my Shimano’s than on my Daiwa’s. I find the Shimano’s to be more finicky to set up. 

[PhishLI]

4 hours ago, WRB said:

If you have the skills to cast the Zillion effectively and backlash the JDM Metanium it’s the reel.

Not at all, Tom. Set the brakes at 8 on the Zillion SV and anyone can mindlessly cast a true 1/4oz through 1 oz without barely thumbing the spool. Can't do that with a 2020 Met without it being precisely dialed in, and even then you'd better have a sharp thumb. I've fished these reels side by side, both with 15lb fluoro, and while I didn't backlash it, I needed to lean on the Met's spool to keep it in check. It's pretty wild, and just wants to fluff up whereas I could fish with the Zillion SV blindfolded.

 

The OP is simply going to have to figure it out. My buddy had fits with his and was mystified for a while before he finally nailed it down.

[Cjmm]

Awesome, thanks for your replies! I’ll try your suggestions tomorrow.

[WRB]

Not every reel comes out of the box ready to fish, they are mass produced and assembled, then tested by the user.

My advice is have the reel professionally tuned and set up to perform as it should. 

Dan Isaac is a top Shimano reel technition who knows these reel far better then anyone on this site. Simple to eliminate any tuning tuning issues.

Tom

[newapti5]

2 hours ago, WRB said:

Not every reel comes out of the box ready to fish, they are mass produced and assembled, then tested by the user.

My advice is have the reel professionally tuned and set up to perform as it should. 

Dan Isaac is a top Shimano reel technition who knows these reel far better then anyone on this site. Simple to eliminate any tuning tuning issues.

Tom

 

I agree. It won't hurt much. If there's nothing serious, I figure the charge would be very reasonable. If there is, professional help would be the best channel to get it fixed.  It's better than having the frustration with a $230 reel every time. 

 

BTW, I don't currently own a 20 Metanium - I sold mine, but I do have a 22 Bantam with similar Silent Tune design and SVS braking system.  That thing is a casting machine when it comes to 1/4oz jigs, and I seldom get any backlashes.  The Metanium should perform similarly - anything less than that isn't normal.  

[ska4fun]

12 hours ago, newapti5 said:

 

Well, with some thumbing of course. What I tried to say is, don't set the spool tension too loose, at least with no side-to-side play. That's what I do with all my reels, no matter what brands.

 

Also, Magforce braking isn't linear braking. 

 

Actually it is, until the inductor cup enter the space between the magnets, when braking is increased way more than spool spinning do itself.

[Rodney Smith]

I have several Metanium JDM’s as well as USDM ones. I like the JDM versions, but they can be tricky to dial in. I recommend two on, two off on the brakes. I would go up one on the side brake compared to what you normally do (mine is on 2 vs my normal 1). Lastly, I would recommend filling the spool with a little less line than normal. If you do these things and still have issues, something is wrong with the reel.

[newapti5]

3 hours ago, ska4fun said:

 

Actually it is, until the inductor cup enter the space between the magnets, when braking is increased way more than spool spinning do itself.

 

You and I may have a different definition of "linear." Right now there's a quite interesting article on TT forum regarding Magforce calculation. I am not saying it's 100% correct, but at the end, it does show the brake force torque is a quadratic function of spool speed. That's only for regular Magforce Z. For SV spool, I imagine the relation will be more complex.

 

So why do you consider the Magforce linear to spool speed? Are you referring to fixed inductor cup situation like the one on Exceler reel? Please elaborate.

 

[ska4fun]

4 hours ago, newapti5 said:

 

You and I may have a different definition of "linear." Right now there's a quite interesting article on TT forum regarding Magforce calculation. I am not saying it's 100% correct, but at the end, it does show the brake force torque is a quadratic function of spool speed. That's only for regular Magforce Z. For SV spool, I imagine the relation will be more complex.

 

So why do you consider the Magforce linear to spool speed? Are you referring to fixed inductor cup situation like the one on Exceler reel? Please elaborate.

 

 

I think I wasn't clear over what I'm saying. I said magforce Z/V are linear mags until the centrifugal ''force'' make the inductor enter in the magnets space, when it becomes more like a centrifugal brake. The magnetic influence is always present, even with the inductor cup in resting position, out of the magnets.

 

SV Spool requires magforce air. The cup don't move by centrifugal ''force'' alone, the magnets are needed to make the cup move.

[suzuki2903]

It could be you are use to the zillion and it being more forgiving? Could just be your casting style especially if you are trying to bomb cast lures . Worse case scenario is to return it and get a new one 

[Cjmm]

17 hours ago, ska4fun said:

 

I think I wasn't clear over what I'm saying. I said magforce Z/V are linear mags until the centrifugal ''force'' make the inductor enter in the magnets space, when it becomes more like a centrifugal brake. The magnetic influence is always present, even with the inductor cup in resting position, out of the magnets.

 

SV Spool requires magforce air. The cup don't move by centrifugal ''force'' alone, the magnets are needed to make the cup move.

Are you saying with the zillion it’s better to have a higher brake setting / more loose spool rather than lower brake setting and tighter spool tension? 

[Cjmm]

On 9/17/2022 at 11:50 PM, newapti5 said:

 

I agree. It won't hurt much. If there's nothing serious, I figure the charge would be very reasonable. If there is, professional help would be the best channel to get it fixed.  It's better than having the frustration with a $230 reel every time. 

 

BTW, I don't currently own a 20 Metanium - I sold mine, but I do have a 22 Bantam with similar Silent Tune design and SVS braking system.  That thing is a casting machine when it comes to 1/4oz jigs, and I seldom get any backlashes.  The Metanium should perform similarly - anything less than that isn't normal.  

I was looking at the 22 bantam. How do you like it? Is it any shorter or smaller than the metanium? That’s another reason I use my zillion a bit more is due to it just fitting my hand better. Palms great. The metanium might be a tad longer? Idk but I like to put the rod grip in between my pinky and ring finger and palm the reel. With the metanium my index finger doesn’t wrap around the front lip of the reel like it does with the zillion. So how does the 22Bantam palm / feel size wise compared to 20metanium?

[casts_by_fly]

4 hours ago, Cjmm said:

Are you saying with the zillion it’s better to have a higher brake setting / more loose spool rather than lower brake setting and tighter spool tension? 

 

I've only got a couple dozen hours on my zillion so getting used to it coming from shimano MGL and Abu (all of their brake systems).  I still fish minimal spool tension on all of my reels and use the brakes to control things.  A backlash at the beginning of the cast normally needs more brakes, one at the end needs more tension (which I'll sub in thumb tension instead usually).  What I find with the zillion is that the brakes have the ability to control higher initial spool speeds better, i.e. if you really zing one with a pretty quick/responsive rod it will help manage it.  The MGL spool just doesn't need that 'zing' coming off the rod in the first place to get the same distance.  Set up identically (minimal tension, mid-level braking) and cast identically (I've swapped the reels between the same 3 rods a couple times now) they behave pretty similar.  If you're a hard caster and trying to really whip the rod then a bit more braking is called for and I think the Zillion might be just a better reel for that.

[newapti5]

4 hours ago, Cjmm said:

I was looking at the 22 bantam. How do you like it? Is it any shorter or smaller than the metanium? That’s another reason I use my zillion a bit more is due to it just fitting my hand better. Palms great. The metanium might be a tad longer? Idk but I like to put the rod grip in between my pinky and ring finger and palm the reel. With the metanium my index finger doesn’t wrap around the front lip of the reel like it does with the zillion. So how does the 22Bantam palm / feel size wise compared to 20metanium?

 

There are plenty of other reviews here and out there, so I'll try to be brief. It's very smooth, like round reel smooth. Casting wise, since it has a deeper spool, I thought it couldn't handle light lures very well; I was wrong. The spool is deeper yet narrower, so after being filled with braid, it weighs just about 20 gram, which is pretty good for a spool with that line capacity. The only shortcoming is that since the spool is narrower, some people with big thumbs complains about the difficulty to thumb the spool. I have a regular size thumb for a 6' male, and no complains from me. 

 

Size wise, it's very similar to 20 Metanium, length or width, so you get the idea. But it's much heavier (almost 2 oz I think?). The Bantam weighs about 7.9oz after being filled with braid line. I don't mind this weight at all, but it might bother some. 

 

Regarding ergonomics, I grab a BC setup the same way you do, but I don't wrap my index finger on the front of the reel very often. When I do, I feel like not many rods' reel seats can accommodate that well. So far, I only find my GLX with the Bantam would allow me to do that comfortably - I could either easily wrap my index finger on the front, or put it under the rod.