A disturbing day on the water…multiple knot failure

[Manifestgtr]

Yesterday was one of the better jig bites of the year…black, blue and purple all day. Dropping a finesse jig, swimming a grass jig, they wanted it all. 
 

I had two completely separate knot failures, brought on by what I believe to have been very large bass. I know the pickerel snap quite well…a jagged, sometimes frayed, toothy cut. These were very obvious knot failures on two different combos, two separate leaders of 12lb big game. They were both HARD pulls and after the first, I decided it was time to use an improved clinch knot over the normal, high speed, clinch knot I’ve been tying for almost 30 years. Another freight train hit, another twisty, undone knot. The only thing I can think of is that my leaders might be a bit long in the tooth? I don’t think that’s the case, though. I make a point to swap them out reasonably often and if that were the case, I feel like this would’ve happened to me before…

[PhishLI]

1 hour ago, Manifestgtr said:

The only thing I can think of is that my leaders might be a bit long in the tooth?

Nah. You didn't lock down the loops as tight as you think you did. Before you cut the tag off, hook a finger in the hook's bend, then pull tightly to lock down the knot. Use a fingernail to push it even tighter when you pull and make sure the loops are stacked tightly. Then cut off the tag and leave at least an 1/8". If you can't unwind the knot by pulling, no bass can either.

[roadwarrior]

42 minutes ago, Manifestgtr said:

The only thing I can think of is that my leaders might be a bit long in the tooth?

 

I change out my leader before every trip.

[Hulkster]

I have found the palomar knot to be way better than the improved clinch knot, at least how I am tying them. 

 

I used to get the odd failure with the clinch knot, once I switched to the palomar knot I can't break Sufix Siege I have to cut it. 

 

Big Game would be the same its very strong. 

 

I would switch to the Palomar knot. its super easy and super strong. 

[Cbump]

Been tying improved clinch on almost every fishing knot I tie for 30 years. From 6lb test to 50lb mono. Braid, FC. Doesn’t matter. Caught sunfish to 100+lb sharks and everything between. I always wet, cinch, and tighten down like Phish described. 
 

[FishTank]

I use to fish Big Game quite a bit and I always have one statement that sums it up for me...... Big Game is great line until it isn't..... which is why I stopped using it.  

 

I always found myself needing to retie and cut a few feet off as the line would start to degrade quickly.  I would get random knots breaking and weak spots when it would get kinks from backlashes, which can happen to any line. I also found that in my main lake that I fish they switch to just eating shad in the late summer and fall, which makes the bass's mouth plate almost have like sharp teeth.  On mono it can cause the line to fray easily.  

 

I have, for the most part, switched to Fluorocarbon in the fall and it has helped a lot. 

[flyfisher]

Twisty line after a failure is the knot coming undone 100% of the time.  Pickerel will make clean cuts through the line.

I use palomar for pretty much everything and rarely have knot issues.

[Captain Phil]

I have been using Big Game since dinosaurs rules the earth (they were nasty) and I have yet to lose a bass due to the line breaking.  Mono has a shelf life.  As I don't know the age of your line or how long it's been sitting around, we don't know if that is the issue.  You may have just found a bad batch of line, although that would be rare.  Maybe the spool was exposed to heat, sunlight or had something else going on? 

 

Everyone has their favorite knots.  I use a Palomar for 25 pound and up and a double clinch knot (Jimmy Houston knot) for all thinner lines.  I wet every knot I tie before I cinch it down.   The only time I ever lost a fish due to a knot slipping was with braid, but that's another story.

[Deleted account]

Twisty undone knot is operator error, switch to a palomar or uni, and cinch them tight, problem solved. 

[Choporoz]

I don't use Big Game, but 12# anything for jigs sounds like perfect ingredient for disappointment.

[MN Fisher]

22 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

I don't use Big Game, but 12# anything for jigs sounds like perfect ingredient for disappointment.

Ya - I go minimum of 15#, and that's for 'clear' water...if I'm dragging through weeds, 17# or 20#

[bulldog1935]

Other than big game mono, no one has mentioned brand, except someone who was polar incorrect. 

 

Knot strength is everything, and varies widely with brand.  Knot strength is also the first priority for Seaguar. 

[GreenPig]

1 hour ago, bulldog1935 said:

Other than big game mono, no one has mentioned brand, except someone who was polar incorrect. 

 

Knot strength is everything, and varies widely with brand.  Knot strength is also the first priority for Seaguar. 

I hung up spoon fishing last Winter with Red Label 15lb and had to pull out my wood dowel to break it off. It was unbelievable. 

[Captain Phil]

On 9/12/2022 at 12:29 PM, GreenPig said:

I hung up spoon fishing last Winter with Red Label 15lb and had to pull out my wood dowel to break it off. It was unbelievable. 

 

Some years ago I became interested in record fishing.  I was an active member of the I.G.F.A. (International Game Fish Association) at the time.  Part of the record process was verifying the breaking strength of the line used.  In order for a line test record to be awarded, the line used had to be tested to make sure it wasn't more than it claimed to be.  We used a device that looked similar to a drill press that had a gauge to show the exact breaking strength of fishing line submitted with their records.  Most fishing line tests much stronger than the label indicates.  I wouldn't be surprised if most 15 pound test line is actually 20 pound or more.  When record fishing I used Ande Tournament line, which is designed and manufactured to conform with all of the I.G.F.A. pound tests and testing regulations, The majority of the bass fishing I do today is done with 20 pound Big Game.   I think you could tie your boat up with that stuff.  It would take one heck of a bass to break that line.  Most line failures are the fault of the angler not the line.  Messed up guides are a close second. 

[Spankey]

Try to buy your line in bulk, keep it in a cool dry place and replace it regularly. But I understand how hard one guy uses a particular setup is not the same as the next guy. When you’re out fishing it’s pretty limited to keeping the sun of your stuff but when not fishing try to keeping stuff out of direct sun and heat. Maybe this doesn’t mean anything. Fishing line is made to be used in the sun and heat. ?‍♂️ 

[Woody B]

I had some knot failures with Big Game.  I normally use Stren or Trilene XL.   My local shop was out of both so I bought a spool of Big Game.   My "normal" line is 12 pound test.   Every time I change line I tie something on and break it.   When I put the big game on my the improved clinch knot slipped/failed, as well as a trilene knot.   A palomar knot holds.   I've been using the big game with a palomar knot and no problems.    

 

With Stren or XL and an improved clinch or trilene knot the line breaks right at the knot but it's really hard to break.   With the spool of big game that I have the(improved clinch, and trilene) knots slipped.   

 

I reluctantly have braid on one reel.   I use a palomar knot with it.  

[Cbump]

Why does improved clinch work perfectly for some and slip for others?

[throttleplate]

4 hours ago, Cbump said:

Why does improved clinch work perfectly for some and slip for others?

 

Maybe they dont have any fingernails.

[JGD]

I have never had a problem with knots until this year. Been tying the improved clinch knot on mono for near 50 years and all’s been good until one day a couple of months ago. Before I even went fishing I cut off about a foot and tied on a lure. Made a few cast and hung into a pretty good one. Broke off right at the bank. I was a little annoyed. Tied back up with same setup and same exact same thing happens again. Another good one and another lost bait. I’m thinking WTH is going on!  Checked the rod guides and anything else I can thing of and came up with nothing. Never had this problem before or since and I can count on one hand the number of fish that have actually broke a line. And I do check it frequently. It was 15# Big Game.

 

 John 

[Woody B]

23 hours ago, Cbump said:

Why does improved clinch work perfectly for some and slip for others?

 

Good question.  Until the current spool of big game I mentioned earlier in this thread I've never had an improved clinch knot slip.   I don't use much braid but I've never had an improved clinch knot slip with it either.  Many people say to use a palomar knot with braid so that's what I've been doing lately.   

 

I know of a bunch of people who have good luck with a "regular" clinch not but I've never tied one that I couldn't pull apart with my hands.    

[zell_pop1]

Improved clinch is normally as strong or stronger than Palomar knot, some slick lines though like Suffix Siege tend to slip use the similar Trilene knot on those. 

On 9/14/2022 at 6:41 PM, Cbump said:

Why does improved clinch work perfectly for some and slip for others?