Puzzled by braid issue on frog rod

[Fritch]

Hi all - I'm running into constant backlash on my frog rod and had to cut all the braid out tonight.  I'm throwing frogs on a Shimano Curado 150XG reel paired with a Dobyn's Champion XP DC 736 CFH.   Line is straight braid, 50lb and 12lb diameter Power Pro 100% Spectra Fiber. 

 

It happened the other day and I thought I just needed to mess with the brakes a bit and loosen up the braid on the reel.  Tonight it happened again to the point where I had  to cut a bunch of braid out. I shortened the line to about 50 yards, made a few casts without issue, and then tied on another 100 yards.  First cast out it did the same thing.  I'm not a pro on these topics and would definitely appreciate any help.

[new2BC4bass]

1 hour ago, Fritch said:

Hi all - I'm running into constant backlash on my frog rod and had to cut all the braid out tonight.  I'm throwing frogs on a Shimano Curado 150XG reel paired with a Dobyn's Champion XP DC 736 CFH.

Right there is your problem.  You should be using a Zillion on an iRod Magic Stick.    Sorry.  Couldn't help myself.  It is possible you got a bad reel.  The only advice I can give is not to loosen the braid.  Keep it snug on the reel.  I do have a question.  When you say straight braid, do you have anything on the spool to keep the braid from slipping?  I am not familiar with that reel so I don't know if it has any holes to tie the braid to.  Not something I would personally do, but some people feel otherwise.

[a1712]

Spool your line up tightly, put ALL 6 brakes on, adjust your cast control to remove side to side in your spool, turn your dial to max and go out and let her rip. If you can backlash like that, send the reel back, it don't work. If it doesn't backlash, turn your dial down a number at a time till it does. If it doesn't the entire way to minimum start disengaging some brake blocks and do it again with your dial. Rinse and repeat. Brian.

[Cbump]

7 minutes ago, new2BC4bass said:

Right there is your problem.  You should be using a Zillion 

For real though. 

[papajoe222]

Loose line prior to the cast will cause backlashes like that.  The line will dig in to the spool during the casting motion and catch momentarily causing the line behind it to roll up on itself.  Add some tension to the line the final few reel turns of a cast and see if that doesn't cure the issue.

[Fritch]

48 minutes ago, a1712 said:

Spool your line up tightly, put ALL 6 brakes on, adjust your cast control to remove side to side in your spool, turn your dial to max and go out and let her rip. If you can backlash like that, send the reel back, it don't work. If it doesn't backlash, turn your dial down a number at a time till it does. If it doesn't the entire way to minimum start disengaging some brake blocks and do it again with your dial. Rinse and repeat. Brian.

Definitely will try this out thanks!

[clh121787]

Man It’s probably not the reel. Practice practice. I’m not a proponent of high tech braking systems to control the cast. I believe your thumb is the best cast control. I have the exact same set up for frogs btw. Down to the line. Don’t over fill the spool. Stop before the bevel 

[Hammer 4]

Sure sounds like the reel is Over filled, as said above Stop at the bevels, make sure the line is wound tightly on the spool.

[MidwestBassAttack]

Smooth casting motion is key. I’ve noticed this typically happens more with a jerky cast which can happen when you go for the extra distance.

 

Casting is a lot like the golf swing. Smooth and controlled will get you what you need (and more) without the result you describe. As soon as you try to bomb it out there; everything stiffens up and too abrupt starts and stops occur which can lead to those over-runs and digs.

[Captain Phil]

23 minutes ago, MidwestBassAttack said:

Smooth casting motion is key. I’ve noticed this typically happens more with a jerky cast which can happen when you go for the extra distance.

 

Casting is a lot like the golf swing. Smooth and controlled will get you what you need (and more) without the result you describe. As soon as you try to bomb it out there; everything stiffens up and too abrupt starts and stops occur which can lead to those over-runs and digs.

 

Welcome to the world of braid and frog fishing!  This happens to everyone.  Frogs are light and tend to catch the wind on the cast.  Couple that with the feeling that every cast has to be 300 yards and this is what happens.   Make sure your line is tight on the spool.  Tightening your spool friction and making smoother less violent casts will help a bunch.  

[Deleted account]

Brakes and tension too loose for angler skill level and newish braid. I like PP for frogs precisely because after it breaks in, it flattens out, and digs less on big casts, I like it when it barely fluffs during the cast, and evens out towards the end. When I'm trying to play pad stalk lumberjack, I use a noisier rounded blade, I mean line...

[Cbump]

I’ve never considered frogs to be light. 

[MickD]

I have experienced a problem with braid in which I can cast in the yard very well, but when on the water I cannot even get close to an aggressive cast without getting a very sharp stop in the cast and a backlash.  I THINK the problem is associated with the braid getting soaked with water, becoming heavier, and this causes it to spin off the reel and contacting the support bars of the reel.  I have switched to Suffix Premium Mono with much better casting.  

 

BUT, is there a better braid that will not act this way?  I have a premium 8 carrier braid that a friend uses successfully on order and will try again.  

 

I think this is the explanation because I used to use braid successfully on much less sophisticated reels than I am now using.  I'll try to remember to post how the new braid performs.  

[Fritch]

2 hours ago, Cbump said:

I’ve never considered frogs to be light. 

One detail I left out is that the frog I'm using actually is pretty light in comparison to my others - not smaller, just lighter.  The issue wasn't as prevalent with the last frog I tried 

 

 

[Chris at Tech]

Respool the line with tension as mentioned above.

 

Then take some casts with the frog in the backyard.  Make a long cast, then pull off another ~15 yards of braid.  Once that's done, put electrical tape on that spot in the spool.  That will still allow you to make your longest cast, but also minimize the damage from a backlash.

[new2BC4bass]

10 hours ago, Cbump said:

I’ve never considered frogs to be light. 

I've weighed very few lures.  Two were frogs.  A 1/2 oz. Jackall Kaera weighed .411 oz.  A 5/8 oz. Live Target Koppers weighed .462 oz.  This is the opposite of how most lures weigh in.  However, water in the lure after a cast or two, and I'm sure they will weigh more than listed.

[Captain Phil]

Plastic frogs have more wind resistance than most other bass lures.  I can chunk a 1/2 oz. Rattle Trap clear across most golf course ponds.  When I attempt to do the same thing with a plastic frog, it gets a lot trickier.  Add some wind and you are in for some fun times.  Take it easy.   Accuracy is more important that distance.  Reminds me of the 500 pound gorilla on the golf course joke...   ☺️ 

[Deephaven]

I think a longer rod would help you more than anything.  I don't even need to thumb 50 on a frog if there is no wind.  Everytime I throw one on a short rod it is a different story.  8' or so is the sweet spot for casting frogs IMO.

[12poundbass]

Tie on a Booyah Pad Crasher and launch that thing into orbit.

 

Problem solved, you’re welcome! 

[bulldog1935]

It's almost embarrassing to talk about my frog reel, which I targeted those half-ounce-rated frogs, and can keep loading this to a full ounce. (6' rod)

Will have to add my vote to the Daiwa brake guys. 

I built it to function like a Daiwa brake, and ended up with a reel that will cast 3 g to 30 g without backlash or even an adjustment - nothing to adjust, except internal at initial set-up.  Skip-casts.  It will cast the half-oz frog beyond 100', probably 3 times what I need where I use it from a kayak. 

Centrifugal brakes work best against start-up backlash (duplicated in Daiwa brake by Magforce/SV moving rotor), and linear mag does its best solving mid-cast wind backlash. 

[CrashVector]

Sounds to ME like you are "over casting".

 

I'm gonna guess your backlashes are during the first 1/3 of the cast?

 

Basically, you're swinging for the fences when you cast.

 

With braid, it works better if you cast with a smooth "whip", and not a "snap" of the rod tip.

 

I can go into more detail if this sounds confusing lol

 

Basically you are over-rotating the spool in relation to how fast your lure is travelling, most likely bc you are trying to throw too hard.

 

 

 

[FishTank]

On 9/3/2022 at 8:36 PM, Fritch said:

 

 

Just a guess but the next time you cast watch the spool and not the frog. See if the line is hitting the face up hook keeper on that rod and creating loops at the end of the cast.  If so, the next cast will end up looking like the one in picture. 

 

I never thought it was thing until I had a rep from Megabass go into great detail about the spiral wrapped guides on the Valkyrie I have. He said that when you cast, the line (especially braid) tends to loop to one side as soon as it comes out and supposedly spiral wrapped guides help. All I know is I can almost empty a spool of 15lb mono when I cast a frog with this rod.  After watching, many times, the line peel of different reels, I could see where that hook keeper would get hit. 

[Derek1]

1 hour ago, FishTank said:

 

Just a guess but the next time you cast watch the spool and not the frog. See if the line is hitting the face up hook keeper on that rod and creating loops at the end of the cast.  If so, the next cast will end up looking like the one in picture. 

 

I never thought it was thing until I had a rep from Megabass go into great detail about the spiral wrapped guides on the Valkyrie I have. He said that when you cast, the line (especially braid) tends to loop to one side as soon as it comes out and supposedly spiral wrapped guides help. All I know is I can almost empty a spool of 15lb mono when I cast a frog with this rod.  After watching, many times, the line peel of different reels, I could see where that hook keeper would get hit. 

That interesting, that never would have crossed my mind. 

[WRB]

GLoose line on the reel after few casts is caused by not keeping the retrieved line snug going on the reel as you work the frog. 

When you try to cast a lighter weight lure with a 6 power rod the rod doesn’t load enough to launch the frog so you end up trying to whip the cast faster....backlash is the result. Slow down your casting motion.

Your thumb is your friend and far better The relying on brakes to solve backlashing.

You have excellent rod, reel and line for frogging.

Try looking at Dean Rojas video’s on casting frogs. 

Tom

PS, try pulling off about 50 yards of braid and tape over the remaking spool line with Teflon plumbers tape, 2 wraps.

No more backlashes!

 

[ATA]

Just spool your reel very tight, If you check, you shouldn't be able to use your nail to get in your braid. Also use a tape on 75 or 50 yards that you think you going to cast up to there. Also get curado DC if it is an option, it will help a lot, Specially in windy condition.(thats what I am using with 65lb maxquatro which is the same diameter with your 50lb spectra).  also make some easy cast and when frog get some water in it it will be heavier and with your line getting wet you will eventually get less backlash. Also try to fix your backlash, watch some video for techniques to do that and you'll avoiding cutting your line in most of the times.

5 minutes ago, WRB said:

PS, try pulling off about 50 yards of braid and tape over the remaking spool line with Teflon plumbers tape, 2 wraps.

No more backlashes!

Fact  I was typing the same thing the same time.