Spotted Bass, good or bad?

[Woody B]

What's everyones thoughts on Spotted Bass?   NC Wildlife Resources Commission considers them an invasive species.   

 

So my thoughts.  I'm not "really" a fan, but I'm kinda on the fence.  They're easy to catch and fight like heck for their size.  

 

I stopped fishing for 30 years.  I realize a bunch of stuff has changed, not just the introduction of spots where I fish.   I'm sure there was quite a bit less fishing pressure back then.  30+ years ago you'd hear about someone catching a DD Largemouth every few weeks or so.   I haven't heard of one around here this year.   Is it fishing pressure or the spots out competing Largemouth for forage?   Spots and Largemouth are also spawning and creating hybrids.  I don't know if these hybrids can reproduce or not.   A while back a guy caught what he thought was a new NC state record Spot.   A biologist examined it and determines it's Mom was a Largemouth, and it's Dad was a Spot.    It's in the aquarium at BPS in Concord NC now.   

 

At Lake Norman this year I've caught a BUNCH of spots and a few Largemouth.   The ratio at Lake Wylie is around 50/50.   

 

I'm not dissatisfied with my results this year.  I've caught 7 Largemouth 5 pounds and over this year including one that was 7 pounds 13 ounces.   I also caught a Spot that was 4 pounds 4 ounces.  It fought like a whale.  

 

 

Here's a link to an article on NC Wildlife website about Spots in Lake Norman.  There's several more articles there also.   https://www.ncwildlife.org/Portals/0/Fishing/documents/2021/Lake-Norman-LMB-Stocking-Evaluation-FINAL.pdf?ver=aUD-mcJOZQdvz8SnoQWt5Q%3d%3d

 

 

Last, I think this Bass is a hybrid LM/Spot.    It's mouth is either small for a Largemouth, or big for a Spot.  It didn't have the rough patch on it's tongue, but it's got a Spot dorsal fin.  It was 4 pounds even.  It jumped and walked on it's tail like a Largemouth.   

 

[Drew03cmc]

Alabama Bass are invasive as heck where they do not belong. They do not belong in NC. On the bright side, they can get big.

[bulldog1935]

In Texas, Smallmouth are the invasive species, because they interbreed with our endemic spotted bass. 

Our native bass retreat into the aquifer to survive drought, and spelunkers have fished for them. 

TPWD has a hatchery and stocking program trying to overwhelm feral smallmouth genes with endemic Guadalupe bass fingerlings. 

Pretty sure this girl is all Guadalupe by her blue sheen (she got this size eating baby bats in a bat nursery cave)

Cibolo Creek A-strain endemic Guadalupe bass isolated from smallmouth by aquifer recharge (the creek disappears into the ground to re-emerge in the coastal plain)

There are only two remaining A-strains, they're extinct in the Blanco River except for state stocking.

this copper-sheen kid is a smallie hybrid

When KT Diaries did an episode on our endemic bass, I took him fishing. 

 

@soflabasser spotted bass will interbreed with smallmouth and, of course, other spotted bass species, but do not interbreed with largemouth. 

 

@TnRiver46 I ate a 4-lb feral smallie one day, caught on a 3-wt.  They were stocked by a game ranch on a private creek when the state allowed such, and this was right at the river confluence. 

[TnRiver46]

I love spots, I hope they invade anywhere I go. Our DNR thinks they are going to ruin everything, but they always take that stance no matter the invader. They magically get millions of dollars donated to the “cause” when there’s a “threat”

 

Meanwhile they’ve never eliminated a threat, just cashed checks

 

i will gladly fry any amount of spotted bass for anyone that wants them gone! 
 

[soflabasser]

Alabama spotted bass are a problem in Georgia since these Alabama spotted bass hybridize with several native black bass species.

[schplurg]

I wonder who the bass think the invasive species are?

 

[WRB]

Southern/Alabama Spotted bass grow 2-3X bigger then Northern/Kentucky Spotted bass. We have both transplanted in California, the current world record is 11.4 lb Spotted bass.

All Black Bass species in California’s are non-native species.

Tom

[roadwarrior]

I don't keep ANY other bass, but I keep and give away EVERY spot I catch. Bank fisherman 

appreciate my generosity, but otherwise I would throw them up onto the bank. No mercy.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

I find it laughable for anyone currently to have a strong opinion one way or the other considering just 15-20yrs ago a Spot was a Spot, and there was no Alabama Bass boogieman bass.  

 

I really don't think humans have nearly enough evidence, data, and studies to say whether the Spot hurts a fisheries across the board

 

I also find it quite interesting that GA, TN, VA, and NC's official fish and game dept's have all used the same study, pics, and infographics when deeming it invasive.    They all quote the same 2-3 limited data studies as well.

 

It's a dang shame because you can already see in this thread how fast stigmatization works, somehow the species has gone from being prized to being thrown on the bank to suffer a slow death in just a decade and half.     

 

In one of these threads the other day, somebody was talking about how destructive Alabama Bass have been to Lay Lake.....LMAO.....that's their native waters, how can they be destructive and invasive to their native waters??????    

[Woody B]

I will admit.  This time of year where I fish it's a different pattern for Large Mouth and Spots.  When LM fishing get's slow I can change my approach and catch some spots.   

 

I strongly believe without the spots I would have caught more big Largemouth this year.   

[The Bassman]

I must not be a purist but as far as I'm concerned if it's a black bass and possesses all the attributes we enjoy then I don't see the issue. I realize that it screws up the taxonomy and creates a problem with record keeping but I don't see how it diminishes our sport. That said, It's not a problem where I live and fish. Maybe I'd see it differently if I lived where it's occurring.

[thediscochef]

2 hours ago, Woody B said:

What's everyones thoughts on Spotted Bass?   NC Wildlife Resources Commission considers them an invasive species.   

 

So my thoughts.  I'm not "really" a fan, but I'm kinda on the fence.  They're easy to catch and fight like heck for their size.  

 

I stopped fishing for 30 years.  I realize a bunch of stuff has changed, not just the introduction of spots where I fish.   I'm sure there was quite a bit less fishing pressure back then.  30+ years ago you'd hear about someone catching a DD Largemouth every few weeks or so.   I haven't heard of one around here this year.   Is it fishing pressure or the spots out competing Largemouth for forage?   Spots and Largemouth are also spawning and creating hybrids.  I don't know if these hybrids can reproduce or not.   A while back a guy caught what he thought was a new NC state record Spot.   A biologist examined it and determines it's Mom was a Largemouth, and it's Dad was a Spot.    It's in the aquarium at BPS in Concord NC now.   

 

At Lake Norman this year I've caught a BUNCH of spots and a few Largemouth.   The ratio at Lake Wylie is around 50/50.   

 

I'm not dissatisfied with my results this year.  I've caught 7 Largemouth 5 pounds and over this year including one that was 7 pounds 13 ounces.   I also caught a Spot that was 4 pounds 4 ounces.  It fought like a whale.  

 

 

Here's a link to an article on NC Wildlife website about Spots in Lake Norman.  There's several more articles there also.   

 

 

Last, I think this Bass is a hybrid LM/Spot.    It's mouth is either small for a Largemouth, or big for a Spot.  It didn't have the rough patch on it's tongue, but it's got a Spot dorsal fin.  It was 4 pounds even.  It jumped and walked on it's tail like a Largemouth.   

 

So in Texas we have Kentucky Spots, versus Alabama bass. I don't know that it's hurting the LMB fishing at Ray Roberts where I'm usually at, though I wouldn't be surprised if the competition for forage made for less finicky LMB. I would also add that I catch plenty of fat LMBs in the same place I catch spots. They're not going hungry unless something's wrong. None of the black bass I catch up here are native to this waterway. I do like the size potential of LMB, but I personally think that Spots are a more exciting fight pound-for-pound. I feel zero guilt about eating a Spotted Bass or handing it off, as they are a shorter lifespan fish than LMBs.

I also strongly believe that LMB and Spots will interbreed depending on the reservoir and the general conditions. My biggest fish so far this year (5-14) actually looked like it may be one - a much more broken side stripe, and markings much like a Spotted Bass above the dark stripe. It had the mouth of an LMB but the connected dorsal and stripe of a spot. Fought like an LMB. 

[the reel ess]

I'm sure there was quite a bit less fishing pressure back then.  30+ years ago you'd hear about someone catching a DD Largemouth every few weeks or so.   I haven't heard of one around here this year.   Is it fishing pressure or the spots out competing Largemouth for forage? 

This is a complex question, maybe impossible to answer except on an individual lake basis. But with increased pressure comes an increase in people keeping all bass. A 5 pound bass simply will not become a DD bass if someone eats it or has it mounted. I know this happens. I've had someone ask me for a big bass I caught in front of them. I just said "nah" and let it go.

 

[bulldog1935]

Native northern largemouth and endemic spotted bass live side by side in Texas hill country limestone creeks and Do Not interbreed, nor have they since God put them there. 

They also occupy completely different water, the spotted bass live where trout would in coldwater, and the largemouth in stiller water. 

 

Spotted bass interbreed with smallmouth. 

adding another example - these two came from the same 30 yds, separated by a riffle.  The largemouth from a still deep plunge pool below an impoundment, the spot from the fast run below the riffle (note the watercress laying in the current)

The bluegill in both pool and run were large and skittish. 

[VolFan]

There’s no getting them out of the Catawba chain at this point. They’re fun to catch and make great catfish bait and raptor chow.

[WRB]

Lake Perris in California was stocked with Southern/Alabama Spotted Bass, the 1st lake in California to receive them. Perris became a trophy Spotted Bass lake and 1st in our State set a world record Spot in the 1980’s. 

Red Ear sunfish (shell crackers from Florida*) we’re stocked in the late 80’s. By the mid 1990’s the Spotted bass population was gone.

The Red Ears designated the Spotted bass spawn eating both the eggs and fry as Spots spawn deeper then LMB and colder water where the Red Ears pre spawn. 

If the NC DNR wants to get rid of Spotted bass plant Red Ears.

*Red Ear world record 6.4 lbs came for California Lake Havasu. Florida record is less then 5 lbs. 

** 1st Kentucky Spotted bass in California was planted in 1939 lake Millerton grow to about 2 lbs max.

[TnRiver46]

42 minutes ago, WRB said:

Lake Perris in California was stocked with Southern/Alabama Spotted Bass, the 1st lake in California to receive them. Perris became a trophy Spotted Bass lake and 1st in our State set a world record Spot in the 1980’s. 

Red Ear sunfish (shell crackers from Florida*) we’re stocked in the late 80’s. By the mid 1990’s the Spotted bass population was gone.

The Red Ears designated the Spotted bass spawn eating both the eggs and fry as Spots spawn deeper then LMB and colder water where the Red Ears pre spawn. 

If the NC DNR wants to get rid of Spotted bass plant Red Ears.

*Red Ear world record 6.4 lbs came for California Lake Havasu. Florida record is less then 3 lbs. 

** 1st Kentucky Spotted bass in California was planted in 1939 lake Millerton grow to about 2 lbs max.

I believe redear sunfish is common in NC, definitely is here in TN and I’m very close to the border 

[MN Fisher]

37 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

I believe redear sunfish is common in NC, definitely is here in TN and I’m very close to the border 

Should be - they're in half of the country.

[Drawdown]

Spots may be my favorite catch. I just don’t come across smallmouth regularly enough to enjoy them, though I have always considered them the most crazy fighters of the black bass.

 

Spots to me are a nice mix of regularity (you can find them) and fight—I love targeting them when I fish North Georgia, something magical about one heavier than 2 pounds. There’s also small pockets where I fish in TN that they seem to outdo the LMB.

[NorcalBassin]

Our spots in NorCal can get really big (past 5+ world records IIRC), and I love having them around since they stay fairly active and aggressive year round. Plus they sometimes fight like they're possessed. 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

39 minutes ago, Drawdown said:

Spots may be my favorite catch. I just don’t come across smallmouth regularly enough to enjoy them, though I have always considered them the most crazy fighters of the black bass.

 

Spots to me are a nice mix of regularity (you can find them) and fight—I love targeting them when I fish North Georgia, something magical about one heavier than 2 pounds. There’s also small pockets where I fish in TN that they seem to outdo the LMB.

Any person who thinks a Spot should be killed like it's some kind of Chinese Carp or something should catch a 4-5lb one, let alone one in the 6lb range.   Having taken a 15 yr hiatus from hardcore Bass fishing, I'm fascinated by the radical shift apparently towards Spotted Bass, let alone the fact a whole new sub species has been created.   Former runner up in the Classic back in the day, Dalton Bobo took me fishing for a day in the fall on Lay Lake.   We easily caught 20 Alabama Bass over 4lbs, and close to half of that would have pushed or pasted 5lbs.   Greatest freshwater fishing day I've ever had.   That counts all the vivid memories of the nights when I caught a 7-8lb+ LGM, to include my PB 10.2.   

 

How can you call a member of Black Bass family a trash fish, when they win tourneys on the regular with 20-25lb single day weigh ins.   Go back in history and look at some of the winning weights in BASSMASTER events held on lakes/rivers that are native territory for the Alabama Bass.    They usually are mixed bagged weigh ins with like one or two bigger LGMs, and then the rest are usually trophy sized Alabama Bass.   

 

This wasn't a problem 20 years ago, now seemingly every state's Fish and Game dept. is up in arms over them.    I look at the TVA lakes like Pickwick, Wilson, Wheeler, and you see trophy sized fish of all three major Black Bass species taken, and this has been the case since I got into fishing as a kid.  

 

Think about the reduction in bass hatchlings each year to Channel Cats, Crappie, and Bream.   Then you got various species of aquatic turtles that can be hell for a lake/pond's Bass population.    In my perfect world there'd only be one strain of Bass, perhaps the FLGM.....but that sub species is easily diluted the second you introduce the now more common northern varieties, and the now the rage is to use the F1s to stock lakes with.     

 

I've lived long enough now to see trash fish become peak gamefish like a Bonefish, and vice versa now in the Alabama Bass's case.  

 

Having fished my entire life for Alabama Bass in their narrow specific native range, it's actually sad to hear.   The Coosa River/chain of lakes along with many smaller rivers are where it came from, and that's my backyard generally speaking.      So, I guess my final thoughts on this to answer the OP's premise, is that I'm just fascinated, and very surprised to see this topic at all.   Just 15 years ago, this was an unthinkable topic, and now it seems to be as topical in the community as FFS or livescopes.  

[Ravox]

I would love to have more spotted bass here in South FL

[AlabamaSpothunter]

5 minutes ago, Ravox said:

I would love to have more spotted bass here in South FL

And I would love to have more South FL Bass here.....lol 

 

Bet there are lots of places left down there with pure strain FLGM.    Florida is big Bass country from everything I've heard or known.   My mentor could have paid to fish anywhere, yet he kept going back to guided trips on the Big O, and another lake that was smaller, heavily vegetated where he really loved going to.   Said they fished huge shiners on bobbers amongst dense lily pads on basically salt water tackle.    He'd usually get a 9-10lb fish a trip.   

 

South Florida is mecca for fisherman in general, I mean from Stuart to the Keys is as good of saltwater fishing as is found anywhere in the world.   Stuart is the Sailfish capital of the world.   Then a dude on this forum is fishing the everglades for monster Bass like a madman, and he's being heavily rewarded.  You're blessed as an angler in South Florida for sure

[fin]

 

That Lake Norman chart from the PDF looks like pretty good evidence, but you can see the largemouth population declining before the introduction of spots. I’d like to see more charts from other lakes.

 

This thread is the first time I’ve ever heard of anyone challenging the notion that spots will reduce the largemouth population. Or maybe that’s not what’s being said. Maybe they are just saying spots get almost as big as largemouth, and fight better, so who cares?

[Woody B]

13 minutes ago, fin said:

you can see the largemouth population declining before the introduction of spots.

I noticed that.  I wonder if that was due to overfishing, stocking practices, water conditions or what?   I wonder how the spots got there.   NC never admits stocking them but I wonder if they did.   I'm pretty sure SC, TN and other surrounding states will claim they never stocked them.   If they got to their current population levels without stocking I bet the State secretly likes them.  

 

What is considered a trophy size Spot?  I've never had a fish of any species mounted.  I've only occasionally killed any to eat.  Like the reel ess said people around here are getting 5 pound Largemouth mounted.  I'm sure it varies by region but I don't consider a Largemouth a trophy that's under 10 pounds.   

 

What size Small Mouth is considered a trophy?