Micro Guides on baitcasting rods.

[Kirtley Howe]

What are your opinions/experiences on using rods with Micro Guides. I have never tried them, but have considered buying a rod with them. I just wonder what the advantages/disadvantages are of these types of guides.  Are they more useful for some techniques than others? Are rods with micro guides more expensive (in general) than the same rod with conventional guides?

[Glenn]

 

[Kirtley Howe]

Well, that only answered a couple of my questions. Anyone else want to chime in on this?

 

[papajoe222]

I've had a couple and, in my experience they (the rods) are no more or less sensitive than rods with standard guides.  They are lighter and if you're chucking a deep crank for hours, that could be a benefit. I do feel, however, that an identical rod with conventional guides will outcast one with micros.  If you use braid to fluoro, you're best off keeping that knot out of the guides.

I said had earlier because I no longer have those two rods.  the proximity of the guide to the rod blank was too inviting for my braid and it would wrap the blank between guides on a regular basis.

 

[WRB]

Good to hear the late Aaron’s voice again, mis him!

Regarding micro guides on a casting rod the advantages are more guides for the line to load the rod blank and keep the line off the rod blank. The result is less line slap during the cast increasing distance.

The down side is the small guide ring diameter when using braid with leaders.

I had 3 custom ALX jig & worm rods built using his micro Kagin  guides and use straight FC line really liked them.

Tom

[Kirtley Howe]

Thank you. Good info.  I think I will stick with conventional guides for my use.

[CrashVector]

I have rods with both, and far prefer the micro guides.

 

They're more accurate, sit lower to the blank, and are lighter.

 

I don't use leaders as a rule.

[T-Billy]

I'm a big fan of the Fuji K Series micros. My Ark rods have them, as does my Tatula. They are larger and more robust than the tiny micros on some rods, but considerably smaller than standard guides. Just right IMO. An Alberto passes through them just fine. The only issue is they freeze up easier than standards, but for all but a handful of days per year, I much prefer them.

[MickD]

First, that pro who spoke on the video is really mixed up, IMHO.  I don't think he has thought this issue through very clearly.

 

One needs to realize that all micros are not the same size, they range from about 2 mm up to about 6 and are still called micros.  The larger sizes are really little or no different in performance than the same sizes in single foot fly guides or any other single foot guide.

 

In the smaller sizes they are obviously lighter than larger guides so they slow the response time/recovery time of the blank less than heavier guides. It can easily be verified by testing the True Natural Frequency of the blank/rod.  This theoretically makes the rod more sensitive and longer casting.  I do  believe that the smaller sizes do cast farther than larger guides.  The reason for this is the aformentioned faster response plus two other factors, I believe (admittedly without objective test data).  The line is controlled earlier in the guide train thus cutting line friction on the guides.  This may be less a factor on BC than spin, but it's still there.  Second, and I have never heard this mentioned before, I believe they cast farther because the line, which is a long cylinder flying through the air, is straigtened out more and therefore has less air resistance.  It is less of a loop flying through the air and more of a tiny straight cyclinder.  I will not be surprised to be told that I'm smoking something illegal.

 

Do they make sense on BC rods?  They do for me.  All my BC builds have either size 4 or 5.5 micros , Fuji KB/KT on them.  And they cast great.

 

Downsides?  As mentioned, smaller sizes require smaller knots if one uses a knot.  They also can ice up more than larger guides if one fishes fresh water in freezing temperatures.  Which I don't.

[Deleted account]

Ridiculously tiny guides are silly...

[Deephaven]

I built most of my rods before they were available but for any technique that I don't use a leader on they will be used in the future.  Mick pointed out the advantages and there are only 2 disadvantages the first being leader knots and the second being they require reading glasses for me to get the line through.

[J Francho]

I've bent them so many times I think they're junk.  I even had one break off on a Pinnacle cranking stick.  I really liked how that rod behaved, and I agree with many of the advantages cited above.  Unfortunately, they're too fragile.  It's not like I'm rough on gear either, they just don't work for me.  The smaller guides on the Okuma TCS series are perfect.  They just a little north of micro and are stronger and pass knots just fine.

[MickD]

KB and KT guides are not in the least fragile, in my opinion.  I wrapped a Point Blank with size 4's around my trolling motor shaft and bent two guides; the blank survived.  The guides were straightened out, and they are still there and working fine two years later.  

 

The KT's have a very small foot, but when wrapped with a locking loop, they will not pull out.  Their small size makes them less likely to get snagged on things.  As with most things, there are some trade-offs at work here.  I like to make that trade-off in favor of micros.  I can handle the knot issue and can still get the line through the guides when setting up.  

[bulldog1935]

They certainly belong on finesse tackle using light braid. 

They weigh less than full-frame guides.  As a rule, you want to keep shock leaders short and outside microguides so they won't impede your cast. 

 

I would generally consider microguides right out for mono. 

 

My most recent Valleyhill MH rods are made for up to PE#1.5 braid, have Ti-frame guides that are intermediate size between microguides and full-size Fuji K-frames, and casting leader knots is not an issue - they zing without you noticing. 

[CrashVector]

5 hours ago, T-Billy said:

I'm a big fan of the Fuji K Series micros. My Ark rods have them, as does my Tatula. They are larger and more robust than the tiny micros on some rods, but considerably smaller than standard guides. Just right IMO. An Alberto passes through them just fine. The only issue is they freeze up easier than standards, but for all but a handful of days per year, I much prefer them.

Agreed.  All the micro guides on the rods I have are Fuji K's

[Boomstick]

If you don't use leaders or are using really thin line, micro guides are a decent way to keep your line tight and off the rod blank when casting. It also removes that "pop" when your line goes tight. I think conventional guides may cast further. I generally prefer either conventional guides or the larger Fuji K guides which sit somewhere between a micro guide and conventional guide. I don't usually use braid to leader, but the small micro guides are just a pain to run line through because they're so small and not worth the hassle.

[casts_by_fly]

3 hours ago, Deleted account said:

Ridiculously tiny guides are silly...

 

Point of diminishing returns really.  Removing weight is good, but removing a fraction of a percent but losing another function is pointless.  I built a steelhead casting rod for float fishing some years ago.  I wanted it as a counterpart for my 13' centerpin rod as a shorter/lighter rod but for higher water.  I ended up using #2s or #3s for the top half.  It did keep the weight down, but I could have gotten away with 4's or 5's just the same.  Of course with the tiny guides I couldn't take it out if the air was below 32 since they'd freeze instantly.

 

Durability wise though, that rod worked really well as a mackerel rod when I was in the north of england.  We'd run to the school of mackerel and catch a couple dozen for bait.  The rod got knocked around a lot, guides occasionally bent, etc and its still going strong.

 

 

[LootyDjibouti]

I personally don't think they're worth the hassle but that's just one man's opinion. I have relatively young eyes and I still can't stand trying to line through micro guides on my kayak. 

It seems like more folks are using braid to leader than ever (maybe that's only perception). If that's true though, I imagine micro-guides will be on the way out or become more of a secondary option rather than a standard feature on a given line of rods. Manufacturers will have all the consumer trend data that's for sure. 

[casts_by_fly]

1 hour ago, LootyDjibouti said:

I personally don't think they're worth the hassle but that's just one man's opinion. I have relatively young eyes and I still can't stand trying to line through micro guides on my kayak. 

It seems like more folks are using braid to leader than ever (maybe that's only perception). If that's true though, I imagine micro-guides will be on the way out or become more of a secondary option rather than a standard feature on a given line of rods. Manufacturers will have all the consumer trend data that's for sure. 

 

Teeny tiny micro guides are already on the way out.  I think manufacturers are settling in around the size 4 or 5 guide as the all around point of balance and are now working with the guide manufacturers to thin down the ceramic rings.  Remember- a guide is measured on the outside of the ceramic ring.  So two guides that are a size 5 could have very different inside diameters.  I think the Alconites were the first to really trim down the ceramic and give a lot bigger hold for a given size of guide.  Also, thinning the ceramic helps bring down weight too which is the ultimate goal.

 

Where in NJ are you?

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

“Micro guide” is a term like many others with no narrow definition. It’s used to describe a range of guide sizes from 5 down with 6 being the traditional running guide size. Guides of all sizes come in various grades of quality and durability. It’s not fair or accurate to lump all “micro guides” together. They’re appropriate in some applications and not do much in others. The goal is to build a rod with the lightest guides that will pass necessary connections and hold up to the application. This allows the blank to retain as much as possible of its original properties especially recovery time which Mick regularly refers to as natural frequency. In theory this maximizes sensitivity. Any improvement in accuracy or casting distance is ancillary and often overstated. Most of my personal rods have 4 or 4.5 size running guides. They’ll pass neat Albright knots joining 50# braid and 14# leader no problem. If you’re just experimenting I’d try a rod on a quality blank intended for bottom contact finesse baits where sensitivity is primary concern. 

[Tackleholic]

3 hours ago, Boomstick said:

If you don't use leaders or are using really thin line, micro guides are a decent way to keep your line tight and off the rod blank when casting. It also removes that "pop" when your line goes tight. I think conventional guides may cast further. I generally prefer either conventional guides or the larger Fuji K guides which sit somewhere between a micro guide and conventional guide. I don't usually use braid to leader, but the small micro guides are just a pain to run line through because they're so small and not worth the hassle.

 

[LootyDjibouti]

50 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

Teeny tiny micro guides are already on the way out.  I think manufacturers are settling in around the size 4 or 5 guide as the all around point of balance and are now working with the guide manufacturers to thin down the ceramic rings.  Remember- a guide is measured on the outside of the ceramic ring.  So two guides that are a size 5 could have very different inside diameters.  I think the Alconites were the first to really trim down the ceramic and give a lot bigger hold for a given size of guide.  Also, thinning the ceramic helps bring down weight too which is the ultimate goal.

 

Where in NJ are you?

Nice I'm in South Jersey. Bout 25 mins outside Philly. Moved here from Atlanta this year. 

[Tackleholic]

Rapid Line Guide, by Rapid Fishing Solutions.com

These make running line through micro guides and regular size guides extremely simple.

[dodgeguy]

13 hours ago, CrashVector said:

I have rods with both, and far prefer the micro guides.

 

They're more accurate, sit lower to the blank, and are lighter.

 

I don't use leaders as a rule.

I agree with this completely. I will never use regular guides again. Micro guides cast further and are lighter.

[FishTank]

To me, as long as the guides work properly with the blank, it's not a big deal. The only time micro guides bother me,  is when they are so small using a leader is impossible.