Tourneys banning FFS / Forward Facing Sonar / Livescope

[ryanerb]

Well... I know it's always been talked about... and now one tourney trail is actually banning live forward facing sonar. But it's Musky tourneys. I just wonder if bass tourneys will be next....Bass tourneys have banned other things like A-Rigs so I don't know why they couldn't ban whatever else they want...

 

See link about news here:

https://www.facebook.com/professionalmuskytournamenttrail/posts/8068677893172843

[gim]

I posted about this in another thread.

 

The pro muskie tour doesn’t have the big sponsors or pocket books or publicity that the major bass tours do. They need to keep their participants happy or they will lose them. As opposed to bass fishing, if someone leaves there is a line of anglers waiting to take that spot.

 

I think it’s a bit of a knee jerk reaction mid season. They should have just left it and dealt with it during the off-season. Interesting enough, one of the guys that was on the team who had 8 livescope units is the same guy who caught the new Minnesota state record pure strain muskie last November on Mille Lacs.

[MN Fisher]

This is another reason I don't do even local tourneys. When guys are out there with FFS, Livescope and Spotlock - and my finances restrict me to downscan with no maps on the sonar and bottom rung bow TM...it's not worth the time or money.

[ryanerb]

17 minutes ago, gimruis said:

I posted about this in another thread.

 

The pro muskie tour doesn’t have the big sponsors or pocket books or publicity that the major bass tours do. They need to keep their participants happy or they will lose them. As opposed to bass fishing, if someone leaves there is a line of anglers waiting to take that spot.

 

I think it’s a bit of a knee jerk reaction mid season. They should have just left it and dealt with it during the off-season. Interesting enough, one of the guys that was on the team who had 8 livescope units is the same guy who caught the new Minnesota state record pure strain muskie last November on Mille Lacs.

I apologize, I did a little search and must have missed your post.

 

Wow, 8 livescope units?!! SHEESH! I haven't seen the MLF guys go that far yet!

 

Yeah, weird they did it mid season. I agree off season could have been better. 

 

I guess if you don't have rules, people will go the extra mile and put 8 livescopes on one boat.

 

I mean, if you're after a world record, what better way to find that fish. I guess you still gotta entice 'em to bite somehow!

 

Whether or not livescope gets banned in tourneys, it's here to stay, and every rec guy and guide, etc will be using it as an amazing tool!! I mean I think it's like every fishermans dream come true haha xray vision to see the fish!!

[TnRiver46]

38 minutes ago, ryanerb said:

 

 

 I mean I think it's like every fishermans dream come true haha xray vision to see the fish!!

Not mine haha, little too complicated for me .  I have a livescope capable head unit but don’t even have the transducer. Much less 8 !

[Tennessee Boy]

That’s the last straw,  I’m giving up Muskie fishing.  ?

[NavyToad]

Well, it’s nice to hear about something that didn’t have to go to an appeals court.

I can’t afford it, not interested in it, and I don’t fish tournaments.

[gim]

3 hours ago, ryanerb said:

Wow, 8 livescope units?!! SHEESH! I haven't seen the MLF guys go that far yet!

 

Yeah, weird they did it mid season. I agree off season could have been better. 

 

I guess if you don't have rules, people will go the extra mile and put 8 livescopes on one boat.

Apparently all they did was drive around until they found a muskie and then threw every lure they had at it until it bit. Since muskies are much larger fish, I’m sure they would also be easier to spot.

 

They shouldn’t have just banned it out right. A lot of other teams use it too. It’s just that this team mounted 8 of them which is clearly excessive. I think a better solution would have just been to limit it to one or like I said before, find a solution in the off season.

 

Something else to consider is that this team had 8 units mounted on their boat in the previous events too…but they didn’t mop up like they did at Eagle River.  So it may have just been isolated success at that particular event.

[813basstard]

Ever been to a professional sporting event?

NHRA wants the fastest cars…period. People in those stands want to see the fastest cars. 
NFL, MLB, NHL all of them want the absolute best no matter the cost. That whole ‘’Jimmy works really hard” thing just isn’t applicable in professional sports. It just ain’t. 
 

Brice Hornsby had it right…that’s just the way it is

[ryanerb]

1 hour ago, 813basstard said:

Ever been to a professional sporting event?

NHRA wants the fastest cars…period. People in those stands want to see the fastest cars. 
NFL, MLB, NHL all of them want the absolute best no matter the cost. That whole ‘’Jimmy works really hard” thing just isn’t applicable in professional sports. It just ain’t. 
 

Brice Hornsby had it right…that’s just the way it is

Haha at least the fastest car makes things a little more exciting... but watching guys stare at screens all day is pretty boring... slightly different. 

 

I get it though, pro sports are unlimited. But let's just take pro baseball for example here.... everyone LOVES home runs right? But wait... they banned aluminum bats!! Now all the pros have to 'struggle' (those poor things) and hope to hit a home run.... 

 

In motorcross, the 125cc class is literally limited to 125cc, even though we know that there are faster bikes out there...

 

In bass fishing, most tourneys limit boat HP to 250HP. We know guys could get places faster and catch more fish with 300HP, but they 'handicap' em and ban anything over 250HP...

 

I mean... i guess this could backfire, if they ban FFS for MLF, then maybe we will get bored because no one is catching any fish and we just have to stare at guys casting 10 million times hoping for a bite... but given their past track record, I think they will still catch em.... 

 

Overall, I guess the wooden vs metal baseball bat is maybe my best parallel here...

[gim]

8 hours ago, ryanerb said:

Overall, I guess the wooden vs metal baseball bat is maybe my best parallel here...

 

I say let 'em go back to using roids again.  Like the McGuire, Sosa, Rodriguez, and Bonds era.  Made for more exciting ball lol

[Cbump]

On 8/11/2022 at 4:23 PM, MN Fisher said:

This is another reason I don't do even local tourneys. When guys are out there with FFS, Livescope and Spotlock - and my finances restrict me to downscan with no maps on the sonar and bottom rung bow TM...it's not worth the time or money.

All the equipment in the world can’t make someone catch fish. This is loser talk. Your lack of confidence in your ability to catch fish has nothing to do with the equipment someone else has. At the end of the day you’re competing against the fish. Not someone else. 

[MN Fisher]

16 minutes ago, Cbump said:

All the equipment in the world can’t make someone catch fish. This is loser talk. Your lack of confidence in your ability to catch fish has nothing to do with the equipment someone else has. At the end of the day you’re competing against the fish. Not someone else. 

Ya - well when their boats and equipment let them FIND the fish while I'm tooting around TRYING to find the fish....I can cast all day, but if the fish aren't when I am...

 

14' Modified Alumacraft, 25hp electric-start Evinrude, 45# Edge, Striker Plus 7cv, and an anchor.

 

That's what I'd be using against guys who spent more on their sonars alone than I did on my whole boat.

 

There's confidence, then there's being so far outclassed by the other rigs that it's not even a contest.

[Cbump]

The Kayak guys go out and catch fish. You don’t need equipment to know patterns bass follow. I’d bet 99% of the people I fish against have all that equipment and zero knowledge on how to use It. Those guys go out and beat the same banks as anyone else. 
Honestly you could have an advantage. While go fast boats are running around  changing spots frequently, you could slow down and really work an area to find fish. 

[MN Fisher]

Well, the latest Tournament on my lake (which I've been fishing for 30+ years) had the top seven teams getting 20#+ bags (winner had 24#7oz) and my best day in the last 5 years was 12#....

[rangerjockey]

6 hours ago, Cbump said:

The Kayak guys go out and catch fish. You don’t need equipment to know patterns bass follow. I’d bet 99% of the people I fish against have all that equipment and zero knowledge on how to use It. Those guys go out and beat the same banks as anyone else. 
Honestly you could have an advantage. While go fast boats are running around  changing spots frequently, you could slow down and really work an area to find fish. 

 Beating the bank I don't think FFS has as much to offer as the off shore structure deal. 

Out there it's a big advantage. 

The northern Smallmouth derby's were usually boring anyway but FFS has made them unwatchable for me.

[TnRiver46]

On 8/26/2022 at 12:00 AM, MN Fisher said:

Well, the latest Tournament on my lake (which I've been fishing for 30+ years) had the top seven teams getting 20#+ bags (winner had 24#7oz) and my best day in the last 5 years was 12#....

I’m with ya, I don’t fish many tourneys because 11-12 lbs is a banner day for me. 
 

BUT!

 

it has absolutely nothing to do with their boats being better than mine and setup to find fish. I know where the fish are, so does everyone. The pros are better than me at catching them. If you gave them all jon boats and paddles with no live scope, they would still kick our butts by just as much 

 

 

[scaleface]

  I use to identify with the pro anglers . I had similar equipment .Except for a few ,   I dont anymore . There are so many large screens on the  boats now days . Maybe  limit those devices to two . One on front , one on back .Dont ban anything , just limit them . The Mississippi river tourney going on now is more interesting and fun for me  to watch than the previous events where  top touring pros are staring at their screens waiting for a fish to pop up . Just my point of view .

[flatcreek]

1 hour ago, scaleface said:

  I use to identify with the pro anglers . I had similar equipment .Except for a few ,   I dont anymore . There are so many large screens on the  boats now days . Maybe  limit those devices to two . One on front , one on back .Dont ban anything , just limit them . The Mississippi river tourney going on now is more interesting and fun for me  to watch than the previous events where  top touring pros are staring at their screens waiting for a fish to pop up . Just my point of view .

With all the screens on their boats nowadays i’m convinced at least one of the screens is just a TV to watch “I Love Lucy” when the fish ain’t biten..

[TOXIC]

All this crazy talk about banning the latest and greatest in electronics.  Do you really think any organization is going to go against all of the electronics manufacturers to just even the playing field? Just look at the cost of these units and who gets the $$.  I’ve been around long enough to remember when the dropshot was illegal on St Clair.  I personally think it’s silly to ban the A-Rig.  Sure, limit it to the legal number of hooks vs just teasers but hard baits have 3 trebles, spinnerbaits have trailer hooks and some swimbaits have multiple hook setups……but I digress.?

[TnRiver46]

I saw a live camera  yesterday zoom in on a live sonar screen and the angler was pointing out bass between each grass stem in 2-3 feet of water. Granted he didn’t catch any of them

[TOXIC]

17 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

I saw a live camera  yesterday zoom in on a live sonar screen and the angler was pointing out bass between each grass stem in 2-3 feet of water. Granted he didn’t catch any of them

I watched one where his graphs showed a school of bass dive down on a school of baitfish, then get under them and drive them to the surface and then he showed the water out to the side of his boat boiling as they fed on top.  

[Deleted account]

On 8/25/2022 at 11:46 PM, Cbump said:

The Kayak guys go out and catch fish. You don’t need equipment to know patterns bass follow. I’d bet 99% of the people I fish against have all that equipment and zero knowledge on how to use It. Those guys go out and beat the same banks as anyone else. 
Honestly you could have an advantage. While go fast boats are running around  changing spots frequently, you could slow down and really work an area to find fish. 

That's not how it works in the real world. In most competitions, the difference comes down to very small differences, and anything that gives you an advantage is going to have an impact, sure in bass fishing, there are times that the conditions will diminish or eliminate the advantage of real time SONAR, but the majority of the time it will make an advantage difficult to overcome. In the salt, we made a habit of taking "purists" competitors' $.

[Cbump]

5 hours ago, Deleted account said:

That's not how it works in the real world. In most competitions, the difference comes down to very small differences, and anything that gives you an advantage is going to have an impact, sure in bass fishing, there are times that the conditions will diminish or eliminate the advantage of real time SONAR, but the majority of the time it will make an advantage difficult to overcome. In the salt, we made a habit of taking "purists" competitors' $.

Do you think I don’t also live in the real world? I fished a ~25 man club tournament today. I do not have Livescope. I bet 25% do. 
I won 1st place big bass and 1st place big stringer. 
No one is saying this guy should go join the opens or some major trail. But I’m telling you, a whole lot of regular club guys have equipment on their boat that they have no idea how to use. 
 

There’s all level of tournaments for people of all levels. If you don’t want to fish tournaments that’s fine. But don’t blame It on your lack of equipment. 
 

Btw I’m not a purist. I’ll have Livescope within a year. 

[Deleted account]

58 minutes ago, Cbump said:

Do you think I don’t also live in the real world? I fished a ~25 man club tournament today. I do not have Livescope. I bet 25% do. 
I won 1st place big bass and 1st place big stringer. 
No one is saying this guy should go join the opens or some major trail. But I’m telling you, a whole lot of regular club guys have equipment on their boat that they have no idea how to use. 
 

There’s all level of tournaments for people of all levels. If you don’t want to fish tournaments that’s fine. But don’t blame It on your lack of equipment. 
 

Btw I’m not a purist. I’ll have Livescope within a year. 

LOL, Good on you, but yeah, competing against vastly different skill/ability levels skews the numbers, all the technology and equipment in the world won't help there.