Bite detection with texas rigs

[Shadowx]

I'm new to fishing with frogs and soft plastics. I had trouble landing fish with a frog and bought Dobyns Sierra 735c Rod with a Tatula 100 BC reel and 50lb suffix 832 braid. I also have a two piece  7'6" medium action Star Stellar Surf spinning rod rated for 10-20lb line 1/2-1 1/2 oz lures with a Diawa BG 3000 reel and 20lb powerpro braid. I've been trying to throw 7" Power Worms and 9" Jelly worms either weightless or with a 1/16-1/4 oz weight. 
I've landed two decent (for me) bass on the Star Stellar, and one on the Sierra with t-rigged worms, which I have never been able to do before. The issue I ran into was I hooked up with a good bass on the Star Stellar, he ran into the pads and got stuck. By the time I got to him he had gotten off. So I switched the worm to the Sierra, but even though it's a rod that's twice as expensive, I couldn't really feel the 1/16th  oz weight with the 9" Jelly worm, so I feel like it's much less sensitive.  So I have one fairly sensitive rod that can't pull fish out of the weeds, and a heavy rod that I can't feel bites on.

My question is do I need a more sensitive rod than the mag-heavy action Sierra, or will fishing heavier weight allow me to feel bites from bass? Thank you. 

[Cbump]

I already answered you in your other thread. That Sierra is a fine rod and definitely sensitive enough. But not for weightless or light weight t-rigs. It’s a mag heavy pitching stick for up to 1.5 oz. Bump your weight up and you will feel everything. 

You need more weight or less rod if you’re stuck on weightless/light. 

[Shadowx]

Thanks for your response. Another member chimed in saying he didn't feel they were sensitive rods, so I'm just trying to get a few different opinions. Many people say to use the lightest weight you can for t-rigs, which is why I'm hesitant to use such heavy weight unless trying to get through a mat. I will try it anyway and see if anything bites. 

[dodgeguy]

8 minutes ago, Shadowx said:

Thanks for your response. Another member chimed in saying he didn't feel they were sensitive rods, so I'm just trying to get a few different opinions. Many people say to use the lightest weight you can for t-rigs, which is why I'm hesitant to use such heavy weight unless trying to get through a mat. I will try it anyway and see if anything bites. 

3/8 tungsten weight on flouro or braid should be fine on the Sierra. Those who say they are not sensitive must have dead nerves. I have arthritis in both hands and both pinkies and the fingers next to them are numb. I can feel everything on my sierras.

[scaleface]

10 minutes ago, Shadowx said:

Many people say to use the lightest weight you can for t-rigs,

Dont listen to them . Use whatever the rod handles the best .

[AlabamaSpothunter]

You are correct, use the lightest weight possible, and stop getting hung up on having complete tactile feel over your bait.    A good way to break your dependence on this crutch of needing constant feedback is to go out at night, and just fish a mag lizard or mag worm on nothing but a heavy 5/0 hook.   You'll realize soon enough that you'll detect the actual bites when you need to, you just aren't going to feel every pebble and trig on the bottom.    As for rods, buy once, cry once....nothing tops GLX Gloomis rods imho.    Lastly, your gear sounds way overkill for the size/species you are targeting.  Outside of flipping I can't think of a reason why I'd personally use a 7'6.   A good 6'6 MH rod is perfect for fishing soft plastics and frogs 

[Shadowx]

16 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

You are correct, use the lightest weight possible, and stop getting hung up on having complete tactile feel over your bait.    A good way to break your dependence on this crutch of needing constant feedback is to go out at night, and just fish a mag lizard or mag worm on nothing but a heavy 5/0 hook.   You'll realize soon enough that you'll detect the actual bites when you need to, you just aren't going to feel every pebble and trig on the bottom.    As for rods, buy once, cry once....nothing tops GLX Gloomis rods imho.    Lastly, your gear sounds way overkill for the size/species you are targeting.  Outside of flipping I can't think of a reason why I'd personally use a 7'6.   A good 6'6 MH rod is perfect for fishing soft plastics and frogs 

I wouldn't say I have a crutch of needing feedback, I've used plastic worms a total of 3 times lol. I'm too inexperienced to have even developed bad habits or crutches.

I have a 7'6" because it's my flounder rod and that length is recommended to cast farther in the surf. Before I bought my Sierra it was the only rod I had besides $50 spinning combos. I didn't buy it for t-rigs, but I used what I had.

I agree the Heavy 7'3" rod with 50lb braid sounds overkill for bass, but everyone that frogs a lot seems to recommend this set up. I hooked a 2.5lb bass from shore with water hyacinth between myself and the fish with my Heavy Sierra casting rod with 50lb braid. He got stuck in the pads but I was able to pull him out and get him to shore. I hooked a fish just like that in the exact same place last night, but on my Medium spinning set up. He got caught in the exact same weeds and I couldn't get him out. He unhooked himself while pinned to the water hyacinth.

[Functional]

I said it and ill stand by it, my sierra is way less sensitive to me than others I have. It's fantastic for what I use it for but definitely not bottom contact. The fact that he's way below and at the bottom end of a stiff rod doesn't help. If you enjoy the sierra or dobyns series great, I just find other better at that price and lower.  

 

The rod is only a small part of it though. WRB and a few others will (maybe) chime in here but having a finger on the line while fishing bottom contact baits will give you a good portion of the feedback you want. Palm the reel and run an index finger up by the line guide and just put a little pressure on the line with the tip of your finger. 

 

You can also read into line density and whats better to detect on slack line (floro followed by mono, last is braid). Doesnt mean you cant feel with any of them just some are better at slack line and some are excellent with some line tension (braid). How you fish, what you fish and how dense the cover is you are fishing might dictate which you should be using.  

[Cbump]

Use as little weight as necessary….for the rod you happen to be using. 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

31 minutes ago, Shadowx said:

I wouldn't say I have a crutch of needing feedback, I've used plastic worms a total of 3 times lol. I'm too inexperienced to have even developed bad habits or crutches.

I have a 7'6" because it's my flounder rod and that length is recommended to cast farther in the surf. Before I bought my Sierra it was the only rod I had besides $50 spinning combos. I didn't buy it for t-rigs, but I used what I had.

I agree the Heavy 7'3" rod with 50lb braid sounds overkill for bass, but everyone that frogs a lot seems to recommend this set up. I hooked a 2.5lb bass from shore with water hyacinth between myself and the fish with my Heavy Sierra casting rod with 50lb braid. He got stuck in the pads but I was able to pull him out and get him to shore. I hooked a fish just like that in the exact same place last night, but on my Medium spinning set up. He got caught in the exact same weeds and I couldn't get him out. He unhooked himself while pinned to the water hyacinth.

Didn't mean to offend, and I've been fishing for bass for over 30 years, and only recently did I break my habit of relying of constant feedback.      Ultimately like you said, you're just new to fishing for bass.   Lots to learn, but equally lots of exciting times in doing so.  You can read all you want on bass fishing, but the real learning takes place from being on the water, and just time fishing.   Good luck, you success will improve 

[Shadowx]

17 minutes ago, Cbump said:

Use as little weight as necessary….for the rod you happen to be using. 

Yeah, this makes a lot of sense. I'm sure my questions seem pretty dumb but having never used plastics before I wasn't really sure about the relationship between rod power, rod action, sinker weight, braid diameter and how it affects sensitivity. I tried to look it up and found some long time members here saying rod power and action is independent of sensitivity. 

[Darth-Baiter]

i am not a bass expert by any measure..but i do know that a bass will hit a soft plastic bait a myriad of ways.  you cannot count on them all being the same.  some days, it is unmistakeble.  you feel the heavy electric shock-like surge thru a rod of bass grabbing on HARD!!  then the next bite could be the most ginger bite.  subtle.  you just feel something is not right..a weight.  slammo!!

 

i like a lightest weight presentation if at all possible.  it is just fun for me.  but sometimes you need some heft.  wind current, whatever.  even a fast boat captain moves along too quickly...get a heavy weight just to get it down fast before we move on.  

[Cbump]

47 minutes ago, Shadowx said:

Yeah, this makes a lot of sense. I'm sure my questions seem pretty dumb but having never used plastics before I wasn't really sure about the relationship between rod power, rod action, sinker weight, braid diameter and how it affects sensitivity. I tried to look it up and found some long time members here saying rod power and action is independent of sensitivity. 

 

They are but you still need to match the weight to the rod. 

[Cbump]

2 hours ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

You are correct, use the lightest weight possible, and stop getting hung up on having complete tactile feel over your bait.    A good way to break your dependence on this crutch of needing constant feedback is to go out at night, and just fish a mag lizard or mag worm on nothing but a heavy 5/0 hook.   You'll realize soon enough that you'll detect the actual bites when you need to, you just aren't going to feel every pebble and trig on the bottom.    As for rods, buy once, cry once....nothing tops GLX Gloomis rods imho.    Lastly, your gear sounds way overkill for the size/species you are targeting.  Outside of flipping I can't think of a reason why I'd personally use a 7'6.   A good 6'6 MH rod is perfect for fishing soft plastics and frogs 

 
Let’s go out at night together with his setup. You fish weightless lizard. I’ll fish 1/2oz tungsten and the same lizard. We will see who feels more bites. Good luck. 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

11 minutes ago, Cbump said:

 
Let’s go out at night together with his setup. You fish weightless lizard. I’ll fish 1/2oz tungsten and the same lizard. We will see who feels more bites. Good luck. 

If getting proven wrong means a fishing trip....I'm cool with that 

[T-Billy]

8 hours ago, Shadowx said:

My question is do I need a more sensitive rod than the mag-heavy action Sierra, or will fishing heavier weight allow me to feel bites from bass? Thank you. 

Use a rod and line that will allow you to get the fish out of the cover you're fishing. Use a weight that will cast well and get the bait down into the cover. That Sierra will do a decent job for you, but despite Dobyns description, it ain't a Mag Heavy. Mag MH or H is more like it. Try 1/4oz with that worm, and 3/8 or 1/2 with a creature bait and see how that works for you. 

 

[WRB]

There not 1 component to strike detection and is your line.

Without line movement there isn’t any strike detection, you must see or feel the line move.

The most sensitive thing everyone use is their finger tips. 

Fishing rods can’t feel or attenuate line movement, only dampen it to some degree. The rod blank has a guide train wrapped onto to it. The guides has polished smooth rings to reduce any drag to increase casting performance and improve line movement from the lure. 

Strike detection then is detecting line movements by feeling your line and/or seeing it move.

Braid is yarn similar to a rag and doesn’t move well in water, it floats creating slack unless kept tight. You can’t feel slack braid move but you can see it. Using braid on bottom contact T-rig with sliding bullet weight without controlling the slack line the strike detection is visual, the rod isn’t a factor. If you control the slack line you improve your strike detection. 

Heavier sliding sinker helps to control slack line however snags easier and warms the bass something isn’t right rejecting your lure.

FC line has very low drag resistance in water, doesn’t float creating less bow in slack line improving line movement detection by feel, hard to see it move.

My suggestion is use straight FC line and feel it with your finger tip. You can watch the line where it enters the water creating a V to see line movements.

Tom

[new2BC4bass]

I admit to being slightly biased against Dobyns.  For one reason and one reason only.  When I first joined the forum, if someone posted a remark about Dobyns rods that alluded that there were better options, they immediately got flamed by several people.  They probably were disinclined to offer an opinion for several months afterwards.  That turned me off on Dobyns rods.  It wasn't until a couple years later that a few people were able to post that there were better options at the price of the Savvy if you were looking for sensitivity....without immediately being scorned for having that opinion.

 

As you can see from previous posts, there are people in both camps. Use what you like.  I have one Dobyns, but it isn't a bottom contact rod.  I enjoy it for what it was designed for.  If I could afford $350 for a rod, then maybe I'd be tempted to try a Dobyns for bottom contact.  Since I can't, I would look elsewhere.  Personal preference.

 

EDIT:  AlabamaSpothunter said, " A good 6'6 MH rod is perfect for fishing soft plastics and frogs" .  I say it is personal preference.  When I first got into baitcast reels, I purchased several 6'6" MH rods.  I found I preferred 7' or longer.  However, I do have a 6'6" MHF that would do just fine for frogs.  It is rated for 3/8-2 oz.

[Dan N]

I’ll just go with at times you really don’t feel it. Watch the line. It’s awesome to feel the bump and slam into them , but I feel like watching the line is just as important. If the line is moving, set the hook! 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

30 minutes ago, new2BC4bass said:

I admit to being slightly biased against Dobyns.  For one reason and one reason only.  When I first joined the forum, if someone posted a remark about Dobyns rods that alluded that there were better options, they immediately got flamed by several people.  They probably were disinclined to offer an opinion for several months afterwards.  That turned me off on Dobyns rods.  It wasn't until a couple years later that a few people were able to post that there were better options at the price of the Savvy if you were looking for sensitivity....without immediately being scorned for having that opinion.

 

As you can see from previous posts, there are people in both camps. Use what you like.  I have one Dobyns, but it isn't a bottom contact rod.  I enjoy it for what it was designed for.  If I could afford $350 for a rod, then maybe I'd be tempted to try a Dobyns for bottom contact.  Since I can't, I would look elsewhere.  Personal preference.

 

EDIT:  AlabamaSpothunter said, " A good 6'6 MH rod is perfect for fishing soft plastics and frogs" .  I say it is personal preference.  When I first got into baitcast reels, I purchased several 6'6" MH rods.  I found I preferred 7' or longer.  However, I do have a 6'6" MHF that would do just fine for frogs.  It is rated for 3/8-2 oz.

Yeah it's quite interesting how preferential or unique each fisherman's tastes are.   Went in the shop the other day and the owner was talking about how ridiculous particular his Bass fishing customers were in comparison to his gun, hunting, or archery customers.    Said dudes will come in looking for an exact trailer in a color from a specific manufacturer....won't except any substitute.   

 

Im the opposite, got a few 7 ft rods left, but they are used for very niche things these days, whereas I'll just take a 6'6 GLX mag bass rod and fish everything in the tacklebox with it.  

[BrianMDTX]

4 hours ago, Dan N said:

I’ll just go with at times you really don’t feel it. Watch the line. It’s awesome to feel the bump and slam into them , but I feel like watching the line is just as important. If the line is moving, set the hook! 

It runs the gamut. You can feel and see hard strikes that are unmistakable. You can get the tap-tap that may be a panfish or a nice bass. You can feel nothing but see your line move left/right/towards/away from you. I think this is one of the reasons working a TR is my favorite presentation. I think some anglers find it tedious and boring. I do not. Unlike a lot of other lures, unless a bass sucks it in on the cast, it’s how the angler works the bait that gets strikes. And you have to maintain awareness at all times. 
 

If I, under pain of death, had to pick one bait and presentation that I would fish exclusively above all others, it would be a Texas rig. 

[Shadowx]

20 hours ago, WRB said:

There not 1 component to strike detection and is your line.

Without line movement there isn’t any strike detection, you must see or feel the line move.

The most sensitive thing everyone use is their finger tips. 

Fishing rods can’t feel or attenuate line movement, only dampen it to some degree. The rod blank has a guide train wrapped onto to it. The guides has polished smooth rings to reduce any drag to increase casting performance and improve line movement from the lure. 

Strike detection then is detecting line movements by feeling your line and/or seeing it move.

Braid is yarn similar to a rag and doesn’t move well in water, it floats creating slack unless kept tight. You can’t feel slack braid move but you can see it. Using braid on bottom contact T-rig with sliding bullet weight without controlling the slack line the strike detection is visual, the rod isn’t a factor. If you control the slack line you improve your strike detection. 

Heavier sliding sinker helps to control slack line however snags easier and warms the bass something isn’t right rejecting your lure.

FC line has very low drag resistance in water, doesn’t float creating less bow in slack line improving line movement detection by feel, hard to see it move.

My suggestion is use straight FC line and feel it with your finger tip. You can watch the line where it enters the water creating a V to see line movements.

Tom

Thank you for the time. If this is the case, what is the point of spending money on a sensitive rod? And why does everyone seem to want sensitive rods for bottom contact in particular?

[WRB]

The reason imo is lighter weight bass rods feel more sensitive to the anglers. You need enough rod power to get hook sets using larger size hooks typical with T-rigs for bait casting bass anglers.

Faster upper 1/3rd of the rod transfers rod power to the hook with less effort. Combination is usually called 4 power or MH with F for fast action.

Todays 7’ bass rods can weigh under 4 oz, the lighter the weight higher the price can become.

Tom 

[dodgeguy]

19 minutes ago, Shadowx said:

Thank you for the time. If this is the case, what is the point of spending money on a sensitive rod? And why does everyone seem to want sensitive rods for bottom contact in particular?

Because a moving bait has a tight line you don't need as sensitive a rod. Bottom contact rods deal with slack line. The lighter and better balanced a rod is the less you have to fight the weight of the rod to feel what's going on. The line transmits the fishes action to the rod. The rod transmits it to you. Imbalance and tip heaviness cancel transmission of signals from the line.

[PhishLI]

On 8/8/2022 at 10:27 AM, Shadowx said:

I had trouble landing fish with a frog and bought Dobyns Sierra 735c Rod with a Tatula 100 BC reel and 50lb suffix 832 braid.

 

On 8/8/2022 at 10:27 AM, Shadowx said:

 I've been trying to throw 7" Power Worms and 9" Jelly worms either weightless or with a 1/16-1/4 oz weight. 

You may have heard the term "It's the wizard, not the wand". Just about anyone here with time on the water and a sense of this game can detect a strike throwing a very light bait like a 7" power worm-1/16oz weight on a $50 6'6" MH Berkley Lightning rod. However, on the same setup, and without a semi slack or taught line, soaking wet 50lb braid isn't going to transmit anything if the bass just bites and spits instead of bites and runs.

 

@WRB has said over and over that you are the strike detector, and he's right. The rod does matter, but this is an overblown point, especially if "you" don't yet understand everything that's happening when a fish bites.

 

Save your 5 power Sierra for baits appropriate for its wheel house weight-wise, and pick up any decent MF or a light MHF for your lightly weighted plastics. If you feel that you must fish with slack line, then spool up with a quality fluoro for mainline and follow the advice you've been given.

 

It takes time to develop a feel, especially in different lakes.