Adding a Kayak Trolling Motor

[casts_by_fly]

41 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

Not recommending this device, because it's crazy expensive, but it's an exceptional concept, and really well-made

https://texaspowerpaddle.com/products/

 

Their lithium battery is in a sealed pelican box with controller hook-up, the drive options include a swing-plate on your pedal-drive well, or a powered rudder blade. 

 

It is definitely a cool concept.  There are a lot of watersports products out now that use the micro motors you see here.  Its a similar motor to torqueedo and others.  There are hydrofoils, motorized surf boards, kayak propulsion, paddleboard propulsion, etc.  The technology has come a long way and lithium batteries have allowed everything to be downsized.  This is a neat application for it.

 

That said, there are some big limiting factors here.  Weeds would kill it for me.  A rudder mounted version isn't accessible on the water to clean them off.  Neither is the transducer mount version, plus that eliminates your ability to mount a transducer there.  And the price is pretty crazy.  $1800 for the motor and proprietary battery.

 

Its a cool concept and really well done, but I just don't see the market for it. 

[Koz]

1 hour ago, VolFan said:

Buy a pontoon boat, moor it at the hotel dock. Provide occasional lake cruises. Write it off as a business expense. 
 

(also I have a 45 lb minnkota you can have if you’re ever near Charlotte, just to get it out of the garage)

I absolutely hate pontoon boats. If I'm throwing a party on the lake, sure. But for anything else forget it.

[Koz]

2 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

Not recommending this device, because it's crazy expensive, but it's an exceptional concept, and really well-made

https://texaspowerpaddle.com/products/

 

Their lithium battery is in a sealed pelican box with controller hook-up, the drive options include a swing-plate on your pedal-drive well, or a powered rudder blade. 

I saw that or something similar. The big issue right now is that there's not anything out there made specifically for my Seastream (which is actually part of Feel Free).

 

I've been thinking about a boat, but I really don't want the headaches that go along with owning and maintaining a boat. I like the simplicity of a kayak.

 

I'm going to stay with what I have for now.

[Darth-Baiter]

good on you Koz.

 

if I have to go far, I leave early.  I need to buy navigation lights for my kayak, now that the days are shortening.   I "try" to put my head down and kick my pedals hard until I get to my destination.  I rarely succeed because anything that looks bassy, I pull over to cast at.  I'm mostly successful.

 

this Saturday is the real challenge.  I need to go 4 miles before I get there.  there is almost no shot me and my buddy get there without pausing to cast.  really a moot point where we are going because boats can beat us there.  but for big kayak only waters, it is nice to go further any anyone else is willing to go for the peace and quiet.  

[Koz]

1 hour ago, Darth-Baiter said:

good on you Koz.

 

if I have to go far, I leave early.  I need to buy navigation lights for my kayak, now that the days are shortening.   I "try" to put my head down and kick my pedals hard until I get to my destination.  I rarely succeed because anything that looks bassy, I pull over to cast at.  I'm mostly successful.

 

this Saturday is the real challenge.  I need to go 4 miles before I get there.  there is almost no shot me and my buddy get there without pausing to cast.  really a moot point where we are going because boats can beat us there.  but for big kayak only waters, it is nice to go further any anyone else is willing to go for the peace and quiet.  

According to my GPS, I routinely cover 4, 5, or 6 miles when I head out to fish. But the primary grounds where I want to fish are 4 miles away (secondary is about 3 miles away) and not a launch in site. So that's about 3 hours of round trip travel time.

 

Maybe in the fall that's doable, but not in the heat of the summer. Even when I head out at 4 in the morning, but 9 or 10 am it's hot and humid out there.

[Darth-Baiter]

1 minute ago, Koz said:

According to my GPS, I routinely cover 4, 5, or 6 miles when I head out to fish. But the primary grounds where I want to fish are 4 miles away (secondary is about 3 miles away) and not a launch in site. So that's about 3 hours of round trip travel time.

 

Maybe in the fall that's doable, but not in the heat of the summer. Even when I head out at 4 in the morning, but 9 or 10 am it's hot and humid out there.

preaching to the choir my friend.

 

my one trolling motor kayak guy won't even tow me.  what a jerk   I am a fair marathoner out on the water.  

[casts_by_fly]

3 hours ago, Koz said:

According to my GPS, I routinely cover 4, 5, or 6 miles when I head out to fish. But the primary grounds where I want to fish are 4 miles away (secondary is about 3 miles away) and not a launch in site. So that's about 3 hours of round trip travel time.

 

Maybe in the fall that's doable, but not in the heat of the summer. Even when I head out at 4 in the morning, but 9 or 10 am it's hot and humid out there.

if you are starting the day by running 4 miles you need a boat unless you’re running 4 miles and fishing your way back. That’s an hour run in a kayak before you start to fish.  If you’re running 4, fishing, and running 4 back then you’re loosing a ton of time every trip. 

[schplurg]

Only thing I can add right now is that I'd still want the pedals even with a motor. If the motor breaks you're paddling a heavy bathtub of a boat, plus like you said Koz, pedals are good for when you're actually fishing.

 

Lithium batteries are getting very cheap, almost the same cost as AGM (in usable amp hours per dollar), plus 1/5 the weight.

 

I could add a motor to my Sportsman and use the pedals as my spot lock. Spot lock would be nice if you can afford it of course. I think I'd only use the motor for distance travel.

[flyfisher]

That isn't that expensive given what it is but what it is odd is I cannot find any specs on thrust or anything on their website.  If it is there, it isn't that obvious to find.

On 8/16/2022 at 8:31 AM, bulldog1935 said:

Not recommending this device, because it's crazy expensive, but it's an exceptional concept, and really well-made

https://texaspowerpaddle.com/products/

 

Their lithium battery is in a sealed pelican box with controller hook-up, the drive options include a swing-plate on your pedal-drive well, or a powered rudder blade. 

That isn't that expensive given what it is but what it is odd is I cannot find any specs on thrust or anything on their website.  If it is there, it isn't that obvious to find.

[Bankc]

On 8/19/2022 at 8:06 PM, flyfisher said:

That isn't that expensive given what it is but what it is odd is I cannot find any specs on thrust or anything on their website.  If it is there, it isn't that obvious to find.

That isn't that expensive given what it is but what it is odd is I cannot find any specs on thrust or anything on their website.  If it is there, it isn't that obvious to find.

Most 30lbs trolling motors require 30 amps to run at full speed, and this one states 25 amps, so my guess is the thrust will be 20-25lbs at most.  It may not even be that, given the size of the motor.

[VolFan]

On 8/16/2022 at 10:35 AM, Koz said:

I absolutely hate pontoon boats. If I'm throwing a party on the lake, sure. But for anything else forget it.

Soooo… that’s a no? ?

[schplurg]

On 8/22/2022 at 10:20 AM, Bankc said:

Most 30lbs trolling motors require 30 amps to run at full speed, and this one states 25 amps, so my guess is the thrust will be 20-25lbs at most.  It may not even be that, given the size of the motor.

 

The propeller is tiny, I think less than 6 inches. I think the battery is small and the price is insane at around $1800. Interesting idea but I wonder about the thrust. It's 16v.

 

Spec sheet (not much there) photo of the motor looks tiny:

https://texaspowerpaddle.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Texas-Power-Paddle-Spec-Sheet-2021.pdf

[VolFan]

It looks like it’s just supposed to augment your paddling/peddling to me… That’s a tremendous amount of coin for what amounts to a push. 

[Darth-Baiter]

if was a smart inventer type, i would take a play from the mountain biking playbook.

 

i would invent a pedal drive assist.  just like in a elec bike system.  it only activates when you are spinning your feet.  you save energy in yourself and your battery by working together.  battery can be smaller, lighter.  you get less tired.  win/win.  a hybrid of sorts just like on a mountain bike. 

[Koz]

6 hours ago, Darth-Baiter said:

if was a smart inventer type, i would take a play from the mountain biking playbook.

 

i would invent a pedal drive assist.  just like in a elec bike system.  it only activates when you are spinning your feet.  you save energy in yourself and your battery by working together.  battery can be smaller, lighter.  you get less tired.  win/win.  a hybrid of sorts just like on a mountain bike. 

Interesting...

 

I'm not sure if you could generate enough electricity to fully charge a unit to provide 30-50lb thrust, but you could probably generate enough as a recovery system to partially charge it during your trip to supplement the battery power that you started with. Think of it like the KERS system on F1 cars.

 

Let's build upon that further and have solar panels near the bow of the kayak. You'd lose storage, but on a large fishing kayak with a pedal drive in front of you you rarely have a need to access that part of the kayak once you are underway. 

 

There are some videos out there from DIYers that have big panels for solar powered kayaks. Some even create a solar panel canopy, but none of this is feasible for fishing. 

 

The issue at hand is a MinnKota trolling motor will pull 30 amps and you are only going to get about an 8 amp output from a reasonably sized solar panel that you can put on your kayak. So you're not going to be able to run a bigger trolling motor off of solar, but you could use it as a recovery method. Torqeedo has a solar charger.

 

I think these would both be doable as a supplemental recovery system, but not as a primary source of power for the motor.

 

 

[schplurg]

Not sure what you guys are talking about but if you try and generate electricity from pedaling a kayak you will lose energy to charging the battery that would otherwise go to the pedals.

 

On a bike you can coast downhill and generate energy for the battery, at the cost of a little speed. In a kayak, not really.

 

If you can pedal and generate let's say 30 watts, that energy normally all goes to the drive unit.

 

If you want to generate power to the battery though this will come at a cost. Some of your pedaling effort will go to charging the battery rather than propelling the kayak. Just like turning the A/C on in your car.

 

You can gain no additional energy this way. Your 30 watts either goes to the pedals, the battery, or a combination of both.

 

If you want to pedal harder to create the energy I suppose you could do that once your vessel attains hull speed. The excess pedaling power won't make you go faster but it could go to batteries.

 

But you'd be a lot more tired ESPECIALLY at hull speed (all this energy comes from you). You'd probably be better off saving your strength.

 

You can drag a solar panel array behind you, but then you will be using more energy to drag these panels. Energy can only be converted to one form to another, it can't be created from nothing.

 

You probably know that but oh well I'm bored today. Me and my electrician friend went over all this one day. He thought I could generate extra power into a battery. Nope, not without losing it somewhere else. It's called conservation of energy.

[casts_by_fly]

33 minutes ago, schplurg said:

Not sure what you guys are talking about but if you try and generate electricity from pedaling a kayak you will lose energy to charging the battery that would otherwise go to the pedals.

 

On a bike you can coast downhill and generate energy for the battery, at the cost of a little speed. In a kayak, not really.

 

If you can pedal and generate let's say 30 watts, that energy normally all goes to the drive unit.

 

If you want to generate power to the battery though this will come at a cost. Some of your pedaling effort will go to charging the battery rather than propelling the kayak. Just like turning the A/C on in your car.

 

You can gain no additional energy this way. Your 30 watts either goes to the pedals, the battery, or a combination of both.

 

If you want to pedal harder to create the energy I suppose you could do that once your vessel attains hull speed. The excess pedaling power won't make you go faster but it could go to batteries.

 

But you'd be a lot more tired ESPECIALLY at hull speed (all this energy comes from you). You'd probably be better off saving your strength.

 

You can drag a solar panel array behind you, but then you will be using more energy to drag these panels. Energy can only be converted to one form to another, it can't be created from nothing.

 

You probably know that but oh well I'm bored today. Me and my electrician friend went over all this one day. He thought I could generate extra power into a battery. Nope, not without losing it somewhere else. It's called conservation of energy.

Electric bikes (and the equivalent here) is that you are personally able to pedal at x speed. The batter kicks in another y. The battery eventually drains since it isn’t being charged, but it isn’t generating the full x+y and neither are you. 

[Darth-Baiter]

On 8/29/2022 at 3:21 PM, Koz said:

Interesting...

 

I'm not sure if you could generate enough electricity to fully charge a unit to provide 30-50lb thrust, but you could probably generate enough as a recovery system to partially charge it during your trip to supplement the battery power that you started with. Think of it like the KERS system on F1 cars.

 

Let's build upon that further and have solar panels near the bow of the kayak. You'd lose storage, but on a large fishing kayak with a pedal drive in front of you you rarely have a need to access that part of the kayak once you are underway. 

 

There are some videos out there from DIYers that have big panels for solar powered kayaks. Some even create a solar panel canopy, but none of this is feasible for fishing. 

 

The issue at hand is a MinnKota trolling motor will pull 30 amps and you are only going to get about an 8 amp output from a reasonably sized solar panel that you can put on your kayak. So you're not going to be able to run a bigger trolling motor off of solar, but you could use it as a recovery method. Torqeedo has a solar charger.

 

I think these would both be doable as a supplemental recovery system, but not as a primary source of power for the motor.

 

 

you miss understand.  I Electric Mountain bike just assists you.  you have a 30 mile range or so.but if you dial it to 100% assist that goes down.  you spin just to spin, but the motor does all the work.  you eat up your battery.  you can dial it so you have to provide some input.  say you feel like your pedaling on flat ground, but the with the motor you are ripping up steep hills.

 

you dont generate electricity with the pedals.  you just pick how much assist you want.

[schplurg]

I just shook my head when I was on a hiking trail recently and saw two fat kids ride by on electric bikes.

 

I'd buy my overweight kid (if I had one) an electric bike but I'd disconnect all the batteries and make him pedal that super heavy thing around. "It IS working just keep going!"

 

So glad I grew up when I did. A bike was freedom, parents wanted you to play outside, front lawns were actually used, scooters required human power to operate.

 

You didn't need a playdate, omg. You'd walk down the street and knock on the door, "Can John play?" The fat kid in school was "the" fat kid, because there were not many of them. Now?

 

Git off my lawn, ya ya. But seriously, what a difference. Rant over.

[Darth-Baiter]

I’m the opposite.  I think it is at least good the kid is out on a bike. It’s the skinny mofos that pass while I’m wheezing up a hill that annoy me. At least give me a tow!

 

to each their own.  I was that fat kid. 

[Seafury]

I know I am late to the party here but the answer is simple. 

You either need an actual boat with a gas motor.

Or.... 

You need a Nucanoe Unlimited with a bow mounted spot lock trolling motor and rear transom mounted gas engine. This kayak is designed for these items and has the best kayak seat on the market, 360 swivel ftw! 

 

Also it has the highest weight capacity and is super wide and stable. 

 

Goodluck on your decision. 

[Koz]

14 hours ago, Seafury said:

I know I am late to the party here but the answer is simple. 

You either need an actual boat with a gas motor.

Or.... 

You need a Nucanoe Unlimited with a bow mounted spot lock trolling motor and rear transom mounted gas engine. This kayak is designed for these items and has the best kayak seat on the market, 360 swivel ftw! 

 

Also it has the highest weight capacity and is super wide and stable. 

 

Goodluck on your decision. 

 

The point of me using this forum as a sounding board is that it's not that simple of an answer. Boat ownership is great but it does have its own drawbacks and a lot of costs.

 

Outfitting a kayak with a trolling motor seemed like a no brainer until you realize that the actual distance you can travel on that motor is not so great unless you plan on adding a lot of battery power and weight. 

 

I'm passing on the trolling motor for now and will revisit it next year and decide whether to keep the status quo, look at a new kayak and setup, or buy a Bass Tracker instead.

[Motoboss]

8 hours ago, Koz said:

 

The point of me using this forum as a sounding board is that it's not that simple of an answer. Boat ownership is great but it does have its own drawbacks and a lot of costs.

 

Outfitting a kayak with a trolling motor seemed like a no brainer until you realize that the actual distance you can travel on that motor is not so great unless you plan on adding a lot of battery power and weight. 

 

I'm passing on the trolling motor for now and will revisit it next year and decide whether to keep the status quo, look at a new kayak and setup, or buy a Bass Tracker instead.

I totally understand that !

Having owned about every type of fishing rig, from Rangers to V-hull’s reading your quest got me to thinking and into deeper research,,,,again.

 I decided to go down the kayak path but wanted power and portability. Something light weight with the ability to carry without a trailer, and the option to paddle skinny water.

You inspired me to make the decision and “bite the bullet” and spend what was necessary upfront and get a total package.

I feel my decision covers my goals at a reasonable all-in price. So I have ordered a new, (heavy sigh)

Old Town Sportsman 106 Powered by Minn Kota in ember color.

 

 

Hopefully this is the right decision and can enjoy it as a “mini bass boat” in many different water possibilities. 

Unfortunately, it won’t be delivered until early next  Spring. Which is fine as now I can gear up with all the accessories.

 

Thanks for sending me down the rabbit hole! 

[Koz]

1 hour ago, Motoboss said:

Thanks for sending me down the rabbit hole! 

 

If it turns out well for you, you're welcome.

 

If it doesn't, you've never heard of me ?

[slonezp]

On 8/10/2022 at 8:50 AM, casts_by_fly said:

this is an old town PDL and not mine, but the theory is the same. 
 

 

I know zero about kayaks. I was shore fishing in Kenosha Harbor this morning. There was a guy trolling around the harbor in a kayak with something similar to this. I'd be all in if I had a kayak.