Adding a Kayak Trolling Motor

[flyfisher]

2 hours ago, Motoboss said:

I totally understand that !

Having owned about every type of fishing rig, from Rangers to V-hull’s reading your quest got me to thinking and into deeper research,,,,again.

 I decided to go down the kayak path but wanted power and portability. Something light weight with the ability to carry without a trailer, and the option to paddle skinny water.

You inspired me to make the decision and “bite the bullet” and spend what was necessary upfront and get a total package.

I feel my decision covers my goals at a reasonable all-in price. So I have ordered a new, (heavy sigh)

Old Town Sportsman 106 Powered by Minn Kota in ember color.

 

 

Hopefully this is the right decision and can enjoy it as a “mini bass boat” in many different water possibilities. 

Unfortunately, it won’t be delivered until early next  Spring. Which is fine as now I can gear up with all the accessories.

 

Thanks for sending me down the rabbit hole! 

You won't be getting in skinny water with that boat though.  My dad has the 13' version and it is far from a skinny water machine and paddling it is a chore to say the least.  It was designed to be used with a motor.  It also doesn't handle grass well which may or may not be an issue where you fish

 

[Motoboss]

1 hour ago, flyfisher said:

You won't be getting in skinny water with that boat though.  My dad has the 13' version and it is far from a skinny water machine and paddling it is a chore to say the least.  It was designed to be used with a motor.  It also doesn't handle grass well which may or may not be an issue where you fish

 

Thanks. As I said I evaluated and researched my needs throughly and find this to be an excellent choice.
Everything is a compromise to some extent.

[flyfisher]

16 minutes ago, Motoboss said:

Thanks. As I said I evaluated and researched my needs throughly and find this to be an excellent choice.
Everything is a compromise to some extent.

did you paddle one first?  I mean I am not trying to be that guy but that kayak doesn't meet any of the needs you originally mentioned.  

 

There are lots of options in kayaks out there and I do agree there are always compromises to be made. 

 

[Koz]

8 minutes ago, flyfisher said:

did you paddle one first?  I mean I am not trying to be that guy but that kayak doesn't meet any of the needs you originally mentioned.  

 

Paddling a big fishing kayak is brutal. That's why I think you should still have a pedal drive with a trolling motor if you plan to cover a lot of water. 

 

I keep a paddle strapped to my kayak just in case I have problems with the pedal drive. but I can't imagine having to paddle it 4 or 5 miles. That's why I also keep a tow rope on board.

[Motoboss]

Apparently the thinking is I’m a young tri-athlete with interest in long haul fishing trips. Nope! I’m near 70 with a quadruple bypass behind me and looking for relaxation.

 

My paddling consists of current drift correction in shallow rivers. I have no plans of  serious paddling any rivers or lakes,  just correcting a drift from point a to b. I don’t consider this kayak a big boat at 10’ 6” and 37” wide and 6’ 3” at 215 lbs think the 45 pound thrust trolling motor will take care of the rest.
This is going to be a mini bass boat and have no delusions of 8 or 10 mile fishing trips but do see being on the water for six hours or so at a time slow cruising or drifting.

I absolutely have no desire to paddle or pedal a boat anywhere   I do know there are abundant options but a all around, ready rigged out the door powered  kayak options are severely limited.

 

As I’ve said, I understand my needs and find this to be a great fit for drift fishing rivers, large pond and small lake fishing.

 

Apologies to @Koz for hijacking his thread, although I do appreciate the input.

[Koz]

6 hours ago, Motoboss said:

Apologies to @Koz for hijacking his thread, although I do appreciate the input.

No apology required. We're all here to share and learn.

[Seafury]

On 10/1/2022 at 12:32 PM, Koz said:

 

The point of me using this forum as a sounding board is that it's not that simple of an answer. Boat ownership is great but it does have its own drawbacks and a lot of costs.

 

Outfitting a kayak with a trolling motor seemed like a no brainer until you realize that the actual distance you can travel on that motor is not so great unless you plan on adding a lot of battery power and weight. 

 

I'm passing on the trolling motor for now and will revisit it next year and decide whether to keep the status quo, look at a new kayak and setup, or buy a Bass Tracker instead.

Sorry for the late reply man.

 

If you need to cover water more than a few miles quickly, gas is the logical way to go.

If you want to be able to do skinny water, or not have a trailer, you need a kayak.

 

That being said, a quality trolling motor and 100ah lifepo4 battery can take you far (well over 5 miles) if you keep the speed low.

They are also SUPER light, but they are not cheap.....

If you go with a bow mount, you could go with a 24v system which is more efficient on a 100ah 24v lifepo4 battery so it will go even further.

Or you can stay with a 12v motor, and add a second 100ah lifepo4 battery (more cost) and go even further.

2 of these batteries STILL weighs a lot less than one 100ah AGM or traditional marine battery.

 

The Nucanoe I mentioned really does it all, have you looked into them?

They have a pedal system.

They have a gas engine ready rear transom.

They have a bow mount ready bow.

360 swivel seat, can evewn put 2 people and 2 seats in it.

Huge weight capacity.

You can have a bow mount, rear gas, and still probably carry the pdl drive if you need it, but it requires swapping out the gas motor on the stern, so doing it in open water would be a problem, you need to be able to stand on the ground and do it most likely.

 

I would consider those ideas, then make your choice.

I love having a kayak, but wish it was powered by a motor instead of pedals (soon) and was faster (not possible with my OT 120 PDL).

I plan to move to a Nucanoe for my next kayak for sure, unless someone gives away a hobie PA12/14 lol.

 

[Koz]

Well, I went ahead and pulled the trigger today and went with the "cheap" version. While I wanted the Xi3 with GPS I had doubts about adding all of that weight to the nose of my kayak. I was also going to have to craft a mounting plate. Since I was not sure I would even be happy with a trolling motor I went with a less expensive option:

 

• Newport Vessels Kayak Series 55lb Thrust trolling motor
• Railblaza Kayak Motor Mount
• Newport Vessels Smart Battery Box
• Weize 12V 100AH LidePO4 battery
• Well nuts to attach the Railblaza to my kayak since I have no interior access

In case you're wondering, all told it was just over $800. $345 of that was for the battery.

 

For now the plan is to mount this on the side with the Railblaza, and when I'm moving I will pull up the pedal drive to reduce drag. I'll experiment with pulling up the rudder and steering with the trolling motor as well as locking the motor and steering with the rudder.

 

But one thing that intrigues me is that the prop unit will fit through the pedal drive opening. So I may be able to craft a mount for it, lock it, and then steer using my rudder. That would be cool if I could do that. But knowing me, I'd end up buying a 3D printer to make it happen!

 

This adds 56 pounds to my kayak and because my kayak does not have hatches I'm going to have to reconfigure some things on my deck for the battery box. I've got that big Flambeau Kayak crate on there and it has a ton of stuff in there adding a lot of weight. I think I'll pare down my tackle to Planos that I can fit under the seat plus a small bag for tools and miscellaneous items. I'll lose 4 rod holders, but I'll buy some Railblaza rail mounts and holders that can attach to the trolling motor arm.

 

The stern storage is already full with the crate, my C-Tug that stays with me, dry bag, and the soft cooler that attaches to my seat. Maybe I'll put some Planos and tools in the cooler,

 

Everything is supposed to be here by Thursday, and I'm planning on taking Friday and Saturday off this week. So I'm hoping to get everything installed Friday morning and be on the lake that day.

 

[Koz]

Ah - the best laid plans of mice and men. It's Thursday night and I have Friday and Saturday off this week and everything arrived except the well nuts. Without those I can't install the trolling motor bracket. 

 

They were supposed to be delivered today, but now they are saying maybe tomorrow. What's interesting is that the rod holders and the rail mount that will allow me to put those rod holders on the trolling motor bracket arrived today and they weren't supposed to be here until Monday.

 

Also, when I placed my initial order I forgot to upgrade my battery charger. My little a amp charger is fine for my 7Ah and 10Ah lithium batteries, but not the new 100Ah lithium battery. But my new 10Ah battery arrives tomorrow as well.

 

I guess I'll be on the lake "old style" with just my pedal drive tomorrow, then out again on Saturday with the trolling motor if the well nuts get here tomorrow. C'est la vie!

[flyfisher]

36 minutes ago, Koz said:

Ah - the best laid plans of mice and men. It's Thursday night and I have Friday and Saturday off this week and everything arrived except the well nuts. Without those I can't install the trolling motor bracket. 

What kind of well nuts, like the rubber ones with the threaded inserts?

 

Me personally I don't think I would use those for a motor mount of any type.  There is a lot of force on those mounts.  If you can't access it you can either put in a hatch for access or use a yak attack rigging bullet with their backing plate.  I have used well nuts, rivets, threaded screw inserts and good old fashioned nuts and bolts.  I have virutally all of them break down and fail over time except nuts and bolts and a close second being the threaded screw inserts.  Hopefully your experience is different and the well nuts hold fine but I would be sure to check them for dry rot and loosening pretty often and be sure to use the exact drill bit they recommend and keep the hole perpindicular to the surface or it won't hold as solid as it should.

[Koz]

11 hours ago, flyfisher said:

Me personally I don't think I would use those for a motor mount of any type.  

 

It's the larger rubber well nuts, and I don't have much of a choice because I have zero access to the interior of my kayak unless I want to cut access then patch it up and waterproof it.

 

I'm using the Railblaza Motor mount and the two rail mount feet have 4 bolts each (rather than 2) and that should help distribute the forces. While my trolling motor provides 55lbs of thrust, I don't see running it past 1/3 to maybe 1/2 throttle at any time because it will deplete my 100Ah battery in no time.

 

My plan is to use it as secondary locomotion when I get tired pedaling. The irony hear is that my average pedaling speed (2.9-3.2mph) is twice as fast as what I'll be using the trolling motor for.

 

Since I busted a rudder cable out on the water, pre-launch safety checks are part of my routine.

[Bankc]

12 hours ago, flyfisher said:

What kind of well nuts, like the rubber ones with the threaded inserts?

 

Me personally I don't think I would use those for a motor mount of any type.  There is a lot of force on those mounts.  If you can't access it you can either put in a hatch for access or use a yak attack rigging bullet with their backing plate.  I have used well nuts, rivets, threaded screw inserts and good old fashioned nuts and bolts.  I have virutally all of them break down and fail over time except nuts and bolts and a close second being the threaded screw inserts.  Hopefully your experience is different and the well nuts hold fine but I would be sure to check them for dry rot and loosening pretty often and be sure to use the exact drill bit they recommend and keep the hole perpindicular to the surface or it won't hold as solid as it should.

I agree.  Trolling motors put a LOT of force on the hull.  I'd consider something more substantial.  Originally, my trolling motor was attached to my rod holder bar which was mounted into the recessed rod holders just behind my seat.  The force of the 30# motor flexed the plastic pretty good and started to wear out my kayak, so I relocated it to the rear for a sturdier mount after about a year.  

 

What I did, was make a backing plate out of a sheet of, I think it was 16-gauge stainless steel and cut it to size with some sheet metal shears.  You could install it in place by cutting out an access port and then covering up the port with a waterproof access hatch, allowing you to get back in there if you needed to.  I have an access port in the front of my kayak, and installed the trolling motor mount in the rear, and used braided fishing line to feed the bracket through to avoid cutting an access port.  It's a lot more difficult and time consuming to go that route but gives a more professional look.  

[Koz]

9 minutes ago, Bankc said:

I agree.  Trolling motors put a LOT of force on the hull.  I'd consider something more substantial.  Originally, my trolling motor was attached to my rod holder bar which was mounted into the recessed rod holders just behind my seat.  The force of the 30# motor flexed the plastic pretty good and started to wear out my kayak, so I relocated it to the rear for a sturdier mount after about a year.  

 

What I did, was make a backing plate out of a sheet of, I think it was 16-gauge stainless steel and cut it to size with some sheet metal shears.  You could install it in place by cutting out an access port and then covering up the port with a waterproof access hatch, allowing you to get back in there if you needed to.  I have an access port in the front of my kayak, and installed the trolling motor mount in the rear, and used braided fishing line to feed the bracket through to avoid cutting an access port.  It's a lot more difficult and time consuming to go that route but gives a more professional look.  

I can't set mine off the stern because that is where the rudder is for my pedal drive. I am adding the trolling motor to provide me with more range when I head out on the water through a combination of my pedal drive and the trolling motor.

 

On a typical day I will end up 3-4 miles away from my launch point and I end up covering 7-10 miles on a trip. I'm also pretty tired when I get back and in the warmer months heat stroke is a real issue at times.

 

There are areas 5-7 miles away that I want to fish and I'm hoping the trolling motor makes it easier to get there and back.

[Bankc]

17 minutes ago, Koz said:

I can't set mine off the stern because that is where the rudder is for my pedal drive. I am adding the trolling motor to provide me with more range when I head out on the water through a combination of my pedal drive and the trolling motor.

 

On a typical day I will end up 3-4 miles away from my launch point and I end up covering 7-10 miles on a trip. I'm also pretty tired when I get back and in the warmer months heat stroke is a real issue at times.

 

There are areas 5-7 miles away that I want to fish and I'm hoping the trolling motor makes it easier to get there and back.

Yeah, that's fine.  It's more efficient from the stern, because the trolling motor is pushing straight versus at an angle to correct from being off center.  But it'll still do what you're wanting from the side.  

My concern is with the well nuts pulling through and widening your holes.  Since you're already invested in this route, you might want to go ahead and give them a try.  The alternative is a lot more work and money.  And the good thing about a plastic boat is you can always plug any holes you drill with some melted plastic if things don't work.  

 

Remember, we're talking about an electric motor here.  A 55# thrust trolling motor will still output 55#s of thrust at 1/3rd speed.  Eletric motors tend to output the most torque at their lowest speeds.  It's not like a gas motor that has lower torque at lower speeds.  So keeping the motor at its slower settings won't avoid this problem, even if it will address battery drain.  

[drakesndrum]

Just waiting on my rock guard from Innovative Sportsman and I'll be set.  Expensive setup for sure, but it eliminates paddling upstream or having to have someone ferry me so I can fish rivers.  It'll open up miles and miles of new water.  Fairly easy and straightforward install.

[Koz]

4 hours ago, drakesndrum said:

 It'll open up miles and miles of new water. 

 

 

But probably not as much as you think, especially if you're fighting the current. How many Ah on your trolling motor battery and what's your draw? Separate battery for the fish finder?

 

The biggest realization that I had was how long my 100Ah battery would last at different speeds.  Sure, I can get 12 hours or more running at 1.5MPH. But I can easily pedal 3 mph so now instead of it taking one hour to get to a specific fishing spot it will take 2 hours if I use the trolling motor.

 

As I opened this topic, if you can afford it, adding a trolling motor SEEMS like a no brainer. But there are a ton of tradeoffs for things like speed, weight, rigging options, travel distance, and more. I'm still not sure I made the right decision.

[flyfisher]

3 hours ago, Koz said:

 

But probably not as much as you think, especially if you're fighting the current. How many Ah on your trolling motor battery and what's your draw? Separate battery for the fish finder?

 

The biggest realization that I had was how long my 100Ah battery would last at different speeds.  Sure, I can get 12 hours or more running at 1.5MPH. But I can easily pedal 3 mph so now instead of it taking one hour to get to a specific fishing spot it will take 2 hours if I use the trolling motor.

 

As I opened this topic, if you can afford it, adding a trolling motor SEEMS like a no brainer. But there are a ton of tradeoffs for things like speed, weight, rigging options, travel distance, and more. I'm still not sure I made the right decision.

you will soon learn how much better it really is.  I could paddle my boat at 3.5-4mph with little effort.  I can use my NK180s motor at about 50-70% throttle and get the same speed and not exert any effort.  You also don't realize how much energy is expended and how much more fresh you are at the end of the day.  For me on rivers it allowed me to fish way more water in way less time than when paddling and on a few lakes where I don't even start fishing for a couple miles it allows me to put the motor on and rig up my rods or just sit back and enjoy the cruise out there.   On the way back it is really nice to just put the motor on and cruise back to the ramp.

[drakesndrum]

It varies with throttle position, but at 2mph the battery will last 40 miles.  Check out Jeff Little on YouTube, he's got all the numbers for these motors.  Wide open it will run 6+ mph but not last as long obviously.  Motor comes with its own proprietary battery, and the whole rig weighs approximately 20lbs.  Doing a float trip it will not be needed, but for solo trips I'm stoked to have it.  3 clips and one pin is all there is to remove the motor at the end of the trip for travel.  My SS127 is very stable but it's a heavy boat, so having the motor also helps with paddle fatigue, especially in current.

 

Humminbird runs on a Noqua 10ah battery that is separate.  Haven't killed that little thing in a full day yet either.

[Koz]

2 hours ago, drakesndrum said:

It varies with throttle position, but at 2mph the battery will last 40 miles.  Check out Jeff Little on YouTube, he's got all the numbers for these motors.  Wide open it will run 6+ mph but not last as long obviously.  Motor comes with its own proprietary battery, and the whole rig weighs approximately 20lbs.  Doing a float trip it will not be needed, but for solo trips I'm stoked to have it.  3 clips and one pin is all there is to remove the motor at the end of the trip for travel.  My SS127 is very stable but it's a heavy boat, so having the motor also helps with paddle fatigue, especially in current.

 

Humminbird runs on a Noqua 10ah battery that is separate.  Haven't killed that little thing in a full day yet either.

Torqeedo?

 

I looked at those, but in my opinion that's way too much money for something without GPS and spot lock.

[flyfisher]

2 hours ago, Koz said:

Torqeedo?

 

I looked at those, but in my opinion that's way too much money for something without GPS and spot lock.

it is a torqueedo and it looks to be the 3hp equivalent model as well.  I was with you as far as cost is concerned when I looked at motorizing my kayak but luckily at the same time I was looking the NK180s was released which is basically right between the power of the lower end and higher end torqueedo and that price along with battery flexibility was much more palatable for me.  The weight savings and ease of rigging and removing was well worth it to me over using a standard trolling motor.  I think all in on mine I was under $1500 and could have went cheaper with stadnard batteries but then i'd lose weight savings.

I was not interested in a spot lock type motor on the bow either as I do a lot of river fishing and the last thing i want to do is hit the motor and it not be able to move out of the way.  My motor has some river rash but it moves up when hit.  My dad has the old town with spot lock and it is slow but it is does work well to hold position and much easier than me anchoring.  I am cool with that trade off though.

[drakesndrum]

It does have an internal gps but no spot-lock, which for me isn't a big deal fishing in a river, as I am target fishing most of the time anyway.  If I need stop I have anchors front and rear.  The main reason to motorize my boat was to be able to open up miles of river that aren't accessible unless I plan an all-day, several mile, float trip.  I fish solo 90% of the time so I don't have anybody to ferry me, and my good spots are all over an hour from my home.  If I fished big lakes and was focusing on off-shore structure, spot-lock would've been a must-have. 

[Bankc]

On 11/5/2022 at 8:03 AM, Koz said:

 

But probably not as much as you think, especially if you're fighting the current. How many Ah on your trolling motor battery and what's your draw? Separate battery for the fish finder?

 

The biggest realization that I had was how long my 100Ah battery would last at different speeds.  Sure, I can get 12 hours or more running at 1.5MPH. But I can easily pedal 3 mph so now instead of it taking one hour to get to a specific fishing spot it will take 2 hours if I use the trolling motor.

 

As I opened this topic, if you can afford it, adding a trolling motor SEEMS like a no brainer. But there are a ton of tradeoffs for things like speed, weight, rigging options, travel distance, and more. I'm still not sure I made the right decision.

It'll do better than you think.  With trolling motors, every speed that you go up, you double the amp draw, but you don't double the speed.  The speed goes in an inverse logarithmic line, meaning you get a whole lot more of a speed increase when switching from speed 1 to speed 2, and very little when switching from speed 4 to speed 5. 

 

So on speed 4, you'll get the twice the run time as speed 5 (because you're only using half the amps), but probably only lose 1/2 mph of actual speed.   And on speed 3 you might lose 1.25 mph vs. speed 5 but gain 4x's the run time (1/4 the amp draw).  So you'll likely have more than enough battery to fish all day, as you'll probably spend most of your time actually fishing on speed 1 or 0, which won't tax your battery at all.  But if you're worried, try running on speed 4 to get from place to place to start off with, and see how much battery you have left at the end of the day.  

 

[Deleted account]

50 minutes ago, Bankc said:

It'll do better than you think.  With trolling motors, every speed that you go up, you double the amp draw, but you don't double the speed.  The speed goes in an inverse logarithmic line, meaning you get a whole lot more of a speed increase when switching from speed 1 to speed 2, and very little when switching from speed 4 to speed 5. 

 

So on speed 4, you'll get the twice the run time as speed 5 (because you're only using half the amps), but probably only lose 1/2 mph of actual speed.   And on speed 3 you might lose 1.25 mph vs. speed 5 but gain 4x's the run time (1/4 the amp draw).  So you'll likely have more than enough battery to fish all day, as you'll probably spend most of your time actually fishing on speed 1 or 0, which won't tax your battery at all.  But if you're worried, try running on speed 4 to get from place to place to start off with, and see how much battery you have left at the end of the day.  

 

Sounds like it needs a flux capacitor...

[Darth-Baiter]

1 hour ago, Deleted account said:

Sounds like it needs a flux capacitor...

I would rather have that battery in the middle of Ironman's chest.  

[drakesndrum]

Got to test out my rig the other day(Bonafide SS127-Torqeedo 1103ac), got it to 6.8mph fully loaded going downstream into a headwind, and could get roughly 5mph going upstream in a light-ish current.  Fished for 5 hours and burned about 30% of the battery.  The display showed if I kept the throttle at roughly 2mph, I could run 40 miles!  Powered through a moderate riffle without any issues, although in higher flows I would probably portage it just to be safe.  Still used the paddle to position myself in tight areas, but overall the motor saved me quite a bit of wear and tear.  As soon as the water comes down and cleans up some I'll get back out to my winter holes.