Kayak punching??

[Masaccio]

Very novice bass angler here.  I'm a kayaker (sometimes), and standing isn't an option for mine.  Yesterday I decided to try a local small lake. Some open water but mostly lily pads and heavy underwater vegetation. I was looking forward to this.  I wanted to try a basic 3/16 shaky head with 6" straight-tail worm, Texas rigged.  That wouldn't get stuck, right?  It got stuck alot.  Why?  why would a skinny worm tex-rigged on 3/16 shakey get so stuck?? I finally gave up and switched to another lure for which I hadn't brought the right rod.  Grr.  I'm not discouraged - I want to get back in the weeds ASAP!  But how? 

Okay, drop shot one idea. But I want more.    

I started researching pitching and flipping, not really knowing what either of those were.  Now that I know, it doesn't seem like either of these techniques are suitable for kayaks not designed for standing.

But is there any reason that casting similar heavier rigs aren't effective in heavy vegetation when cast instead of pitched or flipped.    

Thanks a lot helping.  

[LrgmouthShad]

14 minutes ago, Masaccio said:

But is there any reason that casting similar heavier rigs aren't effective in heavy vegetation when cast instead of pitched or flipped.    

Thanks a lot helping.  

No reason at all. If you watch some punching videos, you’ll notice that at times people will literally lob their bait into the air to try and cannonball their bait through the veggies. Sometimes that is necessary if you are using a lighter weight/one too light for the job. Now tell me why fish would care that you overhand, sidearm, roll cast, or whatever your punch into the veggies. Don’t worry about it a bit, just punch. It’s a great technique.

 

Edit: also, if you are fishing around lily pads you had better fish a spinnerbait and frog around that type of deal too. Spinnerbaits and lily pads is my bread and butter. 

[Masaccio]

1 minute ago, LrgmouthShad said:

No reason at all. If you watch some punching videos, you’ll notice that at times people will literally lob their bait into the air to try and cannonball their bait through the veggies. Sometimes that is necessary if you are using a lighter weight/one too light for the job. Now tell me why fish would care that you overhand, sidearm, roll cast, or whatever your punch into the veggies. Don’t worry about it a bit, just punch. It’s a great technique.

That's hilarious. Thanks for the encouragement.   

[Sphynx]

13 minutes ago, LrgmouthShad said:

Edit: also, if you are fishing around lily pads you had better fish a spinnerbait and frog around that type of deal too. Spinnerbaits and lily pads is my bread and butter. 

Shhhhhhh...frogs and Lilly pads are a bass fishing secret that nobody knows...I clicked on a YT video that said so, why are you telling the new guy?!

[Deleted account]

1 hour ago, Masaccio said:

I wanted to try a basic 3/16 shaky head with 6" straight-tail worm, Texas rigged.  That wouldn't get stuck, right?  It got stuck alot.  Why?  why would a skinny worm tex-rigged on 3/16 shakey get so stuck??

- Giving the lure slack after it lands

- Not fishing the right angles and lanes

- Inaccurate casting

- Not keeping rod tip high

- Operator error

[Masaccio]

1 hour ago, LrgmouthShad said:

Now tell me why fish would care that you overhand, sidearm, roll cast, or whatever your punch into the veggies. Don’t worry about it a bit, just punch. It’s a great technique.

 

Edit: also, if you are fishing around lily pads you had better fish a spinnerbait and frog around that type of deal too. Spinnerbaits and lily pads is my bread and butter. 

I have one answer to your question (that may or may not matter).

It seems like one of the big deals about pitching and flipping is the soundlessness that you can achieve when the lure hits the surface of the water.  So when you're casting a big rig from afar, it's going to make a disruptive splash in relatively shallow water (taking the finesse out of finesse fishing?).  But is the rig otherwise the same, the bullet weight, skirt, hook and tex-rigged trailer?   

Thanks also for the lily pad and spinnerbait tips.   

1 hour ago, Sphynx said:

Shhhhhhh...frogs and Lilly pads are a bass fishing secret that nobody knows...I clicked on a YT video that said so, why are you telling the new guy?!

Hey, I'm not new any more.  My status has been upgraded.  I may still be dummy but I'm not a new dummy.  Actually, I've been a dummy for a couple of years now.  So I might even outrank some of you guys.  

[LrgmouthShad]

19 minutes ago, Masaccio said:

I have one answer to your question (that may or may not matter).

It seems like one of the big deals about pitching and flipping is the soundlessness that you can achieve when the lure hits the surface of the water.  So when you're casting a big rig from afar, it's going to make a disruptive splash in relatively shallow water (taking the finesse out of finesse fishing?).  But is the rig otherwise the same, the bullet weight, skirt, hook and tex-rigged trailer?   

Thanks also for the lily pad and spinnerbait tips.   

Hey, I'm not new any more.  My status has been upgraded.  I may still be dummy but I'm not a new dummy.  Actually, I've been a dummy for a couple of years now.  So I might even outrank some of you guys.  

Well, sure there’s some advantages to pitching and flipping in the soundlessness but it doesn’t mean that you should avoid doing something just because you can’t be as super quiet. Now, I roll cast a lot from a kayak and can guarantee that I don’t make much noise on a roll cast. It is just a little louder than a really good pitch. Also, if we’re talking about noise, how about the fact that a kayak can be so so much quieter than a boat if you do it right? I punched just the other day in lily pads with a 3/4oz weight pegged, owner jungle flippin hook, and a gambler burner craw, same thing I would use from a boat. 
 

And yeah, you ain’t that new to bass fishing! I’ve only been fishing for 6 years, still a young guy. A lot of people on here more experienced than me.

[Masaccio]

Whatever else is happening, a heavy rod sounds like a good idea.  You can't even talk frogs and spinner baits without one, right?  1oz. max big enough for my level?  Or 1.5.  Some of the tungsten weights recommended for heavy cover were 1.5.     

10 minutes ago, LrgmouthShad said:

Well, sure there’s some advantages to pitching and flipping in the soundlessness but it doesn’t mean that you should avoid doing something just because you can’t be as super quiet. Now, I roll cast a lot from a kayak and can guarantee that I don’t make much noise on a roll cast. It is just a little louder than a really good pitch. Also, if we’re talking about noise, how about the fact that a kayak can be so so much quieter than a boat if you do it right? I punched just the other day in lily pads with a 3/4oz weight pegged, owner jungle flippin hook, and a gambler burner craw, same thing I would use from a boat. 
 

And yeah, you ain’t that new to bass fishing! I’ve only been fishing for 6 years, still a young guy. A lot of people on here more experienced than me.

This thread is getting ridiculously HELPFUL !

I'm always thinking "the devil is the details."  Sometimes it hard to know which details matter and which one don't, so much.

[LrgmouthShad]

14 minutes ago, Masaccio said:

Whatever else is happening, a heavy rod sounds like a good idea.  You can't even talk frogs and spinner baits without one, right?  1oz. max big enough for my level?  Or 1.5.  Some of the tungsten weights recommended for heavy cover were 1.5

For punching, yeah, you want a heavy rod. I don’t think many would debate that. Maybe @Deleted account, just because. And heavy braid, IMO 50lb+, I use 65. Heavy weight, heavy flipping hook, just pure hand to hand combat with the fish. I also like a heavy rod for frogs and use the same rod for frogs that I do punching, a Lew’s Carbon Fire 7’3” Heavy. For spinnerbaits, the fact that I have a heavy rod for that as well is just brand coincidence. Falcon rods tend to fish lighter than their rating, so it more like a medium heavy. For spinnerbaits you want accuracy around lily pads. To be able to fit your spinnerbait in holes, cracks that run a ways through the pad field, to be able to skirt along the edge of a pad line. Anything like that. Just as close as you can get to the pads. Takes a while to get accurate.

 

Edit: Also, I punch through most lily pads with 3/4oz. 1oz or 1.25oz is plenty. Not all lily pads are the same though. I’ve seen grass mats that I thought I would have to lob a 1.5oz in the air to get through.not lily pads though

[Masaccio]

It's easy to tell popular ones 'cause they're sold out right now.  The few I have in my Wishlist for consideration: 

iROD Air Series Casting Rod 7'7" Bub's Flipping Stick

Shimano Expride A Casting Rod 7'3" Extra Hvy

Lamiglas SI Bass Casting Rod 7'3" Heavy

Dobyns Champion XP Flippin' Rod 7'6" Heavy 766

Im not a big guy so lighter is better. 

[Sphynx]

4 hours ago, Masaccio said:

Hey, I'm not new any more.  My status has been upgraded.  I may still be dummy but I'm not a new dummy.  Actually, I've been a dummy for a couple of years now.  So I might even outrank some of you guys.  

Lol, I tease, and you probably do outrank me, as I'm not aware that I have any rank to speak of.

[Munkin]

Sorry, I misread the title and thought it said something about punching kayakers? I will move along then since my advice is off topic then. 

 

Allen 

[Masaccio]

9 hours ago, Sphynx said:

Lol, I tease, and you probably do outrank me, as I'm not aware that I have any rank to speak of.

Oh, heck.  Me too  I was just trying to be funny and play along. Not always my strong point. 

 

15 hours ago, Deleted account said:

- Giving the lure slack after it lands

- Not fishing the right angles and lanes

- Inaccurate casting

- Not keeping rod tip high

- Operator error

Used a spinning rod. I was giving slack after it landed so it would go to bottom. 
Right angles and lanes?  Are there wrong ones? 
Inaccurate casting.  Definitely needs work. 
Rod tip high.  Who knew? 
Operator error. Oh yeah. 

 

After watching a few punching videos, I see that even though rigs can be weedless, bass certainly are not!  

 

[casts_by_fly]

If you’re trying to get through the solid pad mats we have around here, a 3/16 isn’t enough.  A 3/8 with a skinny plastic and picking your spots will get down just enough but you have to pick your spots and drop it into holes. I normally rig a 3/8 at home and work my way up depending on the cover on the day. Thursday I was fishing 3/4 to get through it.

 

as far as rods, the falcon amistad is a great heavy pitching rod. 7’3” heavy, made for doing what you’re talking. I have the expert series but they offer it from the bucoo up to the cara. Since you’re semi local you could try mine out one day if you’re considering it. 

[Darth-Baiter]

I am a newbie.  I think the time a bass is the loudest  is when they are buried under a mat.  I am sometimes fishing quietly and I hear and see a big blow up in the mats.  I will charge in and drop in a punch rig.  I use 65lb braid, a 7'6" heavy rod, and some handmedown Lew reel.  I hate my rod and it is my only one I kinda want to replace.  the handles is weird and tapered.  in a punch rod, I think a solid grip is kinda key.    punching is not stealthy with me.  I poke the nose of my kayak into the mat to. hold me in place, I stand up and go round the perimeter of my bow.  

[Masaccio]

On 7/31/2022 at 11:40 AM, casts_by_fly said:

If you’re trying to get through the solid pad mats we have around here, a 3/16 isn’t enough.  A 3/8 with a skinny plastic and picking your spots will get down just enough but you have to pick your spots and drop it into holes. I normally rig a 3/8 at home and work my way up depending on the cover on the day. Thursday I was fishing 3/4 to get through it.

 

as far as rods, the falcon amistad is a great heavy pitching rod. 7’3” heavy, made for doing what you’re talking. I have the expert series but they offer it from the bucoo up to the cara. Since you’re semi local you could try mine out one day if you’re considering it. 

This rod is a great recommendation, especially coming from a local fisherman.  I tend to overspend to compensate for cluelessness.   I'm looking forward to experiencing this reasonably priced rod. 

(As for the bait - thank you again.  3/16 isn't even getting down there, is it?) 

I also noticed in YT videos the recommendation of skinny plastics that you also mentioned.  I'm looking forward to putting all of this together.    

[casts_by_fly]

31 minutes ago, Masaccio said:

This rod is a great recommendation, especially coming from a local fisherman.  I tend to overspend to compensate for cluelessness.   I'm looking forward to experiencing this reasonably priced rod. 

(As for the bait - thank you again.  3/16 isn't even getting down there, is it?) 

I also noticed in YT videos the recommendation of skinny plastics that you also mentioned.  I'm looking forward to putting all of this together.    

 

Your profile says sussex county.  Where abouts are you?  I'm on the border of Sussex and Morris practically.  I can be on Musconetcong, Cranberry, Budd, or others in about 20 minutes.  Aeroflex and twin are about 30 for me.

[Masaccio]

Wow.  Thanks for offering a meeting (I'm around Branchville). Does this forum provide for PM?  

[casts_by_fly]

Yes, there are PM’s. I’ll try to shoot you one. I’m not sure if you have enough posts just yet. 

[dgkasper58]

The worst part is avoiding the tungsten flying 1000000 MPH at your head if your sitting in a kayak! I have had some close calls and there nowhere to hide on the yak!

[casts_by_fly]

20 hours ago, Masaccio said:

Wow.  Thanks for offering a meeting (I'm around Branchville). Does this forum provide for PM?  

let me know if you got my pm.  I just sent a new one right now. I’m heading out tomorrow evening, maybe up your way, if you’re interested.