Motor trim/tilt problem

[billmac]

So I'm finally breaking out my boat (busy summer) and I need install a lower unit.  Unfortunately I stored the boat trimmed down.  I didn't know I wasn't supposed to do this.  It won't come up.  I get a solenoid click in both directions, but that's all.  Battery and terminals are fine.  I tried to loosen the manual release valve, but it wouldn't budge, until half the screw snapped off.  Is it possible to carefully release the pressure by loosening the fill cap until I'm able to tilt it up manually?

[detroit1]

my 96 50 hp trim/tilt quit late last year, would just click. 2 solenoids $17 each, and it works fine. had to add fluid too. 

[Log Catcher]

Sounds like you need to replace those solenoids. I had an old 40HP Force motor that would do that. I replaced solenoids two or three times before I blew a cylinder in the motor.

[billmac]

I don't think it's the solenoids.  I bypassed the solenoids and jumpered 12V on the far side of each.  No difference.

[BayouSlide]

I had a similar problem crop up. I solved it by dissassembling the unit: the commutator on the motor armature was caked in carbon from the brushes.

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, billmac said:

I don't think it's the solenoids.  I bypassed the solenoids and jumpered 12V on the far side of each.  No difference.

does it make any noise when you try the trim switch? 
 

My relays are funny, sometimes mine trims itself all the way up on its own and won’t stop. I remove the cowl and usually just touch a relay, and it stops. I replaced one of them, I think I need to do all 3 

 

is the relay the same as a solenoid? 
 

 

[billmac]

Unfortunately I can't get at the trim motor, since the outboard is tilted down.  If I could release the motor from the trim system I could tilt it by hand, but I can't quite figure out how to do that.

[TnRiver46]

4 minutes ago, billmac said:

Unfortunately I can't get at the trim motor, since the outboard is tilted down.  If I could release the motor from the trim system I could tilt it by hand, but I can't quite figure out how to do that.

Was the screw you broke plastic ? 

[Jig Man]

You don’t have to get to the trim motor to replace the relays.

[billmac]

1 hour ago, TnRiver46 said:

Was the screw you broke plastic ? 

No, I think it is aluminum. 

1 hour ago, Jig Man said:

You don’t have to get to the trim motor to replace the relays.

True, but I have bypassed the relays and it didn't help.

[TnRiver46]

6 hours ago, billmac said:

No, I think it is aluminum. 

True, but I have bypassed the relays and it didn't help.

Gotcha. Maybe if you get an extractor bit or something you could replace that screw. Or find a traveling mechanic 

[billmac]

I tried an extractor bit. Wouldn't budge.  I was afraid to force it too much, because if it falls apart, I'll have to replace the whole unit.

[WRB]

 Without knowing the engine it’s impossible to give you any detail advice.

This isn’t a screw, it’s a assembly designed to be turned 2 to 3 turns to open the bleed port. There is a C-clip to prevent the assembly from backing out.

It sounds like you tried to back the assembly completely out and broke the screw slot.

At this point the MBV assembly needs to be replaced and that requires removing the pump assembly and that requires a Merc mechanic.

Tom

 

[billmac]

Hi Tom,

The screw didn't back out at all.  No movement whatsoever.

[WRB]

That happens with high hydronic pressure being applied from the engine weight. You need to block up the engine lower until to neutralize the weight before trying to loosen the bleed screw.

Block up the lower unit. Try a bladed screw screw drive and a mallet. Hit the screw driver while trying to turn it, even if it’s broken. You just need to turn a 1/8 turn to get it started.

Tom

[billmac]

Thanks.  I have managed to use a jack to raise the motor a little.  I will keep trying to raise it, but it's coming up very hard and I'm afraid of breaking something.

 

[gim]

1 hour ago, billmac said:

but it's coming up very hard and I'm afraid of breaking something.

At this point I would say not to force it anymore because you might make it worse than it is.  An appt at a repair shop or with a mechanic is going to be needed now.  Just my suggestion.

[GaryH]

☝️☝️☝️
sound advice. Time for a certified mechanic 

[billmac]

So I managed to painstakingly raise the motor all the way and put the blocking lever (or whatever it is called) in place.  I had naively supposed I would be able to remove the trim motor without removing the entire assembly, but that doesn't appear to be the case.  One screw is accessible but the other is not.  I tried tapping and turning the manual release screw but the screwdriver just dug into the screw.

 

[cbat]

Is it possible that the bypass screw was already in the open position?

On my Merc 115 it turns very easy.

[billmac]

2 hours ago, cbat said:

Is it possible that the bypass screw was already in the open position?

I think it's as Tom said, since it was trimmed down, it's under a lot of pressure.

[billmac]

On 7/31/2022 at 11:57 PM, WRB said:

Block up the lower unit. Try a bladed screw screw drive and a mallet. Hit the screw driver while trying to turn it, even if it’s broken. You just need to turn a 1/8 turn to get it started.

Hi Tom,

I sent you a PM (DM?).

Thanks,

Bill

 

[Way2slow]

My first thought is you are probably trying to turn it the wrong direction.   My second thought would have been why not use an impact driver to loosen it instead of just brute force on the head.   An impact driver applied will loosen over tightened screws a whole lot better than just brute force.  They also work much better than just a screwdriver but if trying a screwdriver and the blade is so sharp, it's cutting the screw, why not just grind in flatter so it doesn't cut into it.   

Since there has never been a mention of what motor you are dealing with, makes it kind of hard to give any constructive assistance.  

 Sound like one of those deals if I fix it, it cost $20.  If I fix it after you tried, it cost $200.  

[billmac]

Keith,

It's a 1988 Mercury I6, 115HP.  I tried an impact driver and that's what broke the screw initially.  I've tried an easy-out.  I've tried rapping it.  No dice so far.  If I thought it was only being held in by pressure, I would just drill through it, release the pressure, and put in a new one.  But I'm a little afraid it is seized up in there.  I thought removing the trim motor would release the pressure but the screw still won't turn.  My two piston rods are still fully retracted, so something is still under pressure.

 

I haven't found anyone in my area willing to work on the motor.  Too old.