Aftermarket spool question

[PressuredFishing]

I own an alphas air tw, it's nice and has been serving me well but wanted a really nice aftermarket spool because I just have more cash to spend and want to switch between 2 different line systems. Roro, avail, chameleon, or another brand of decent quality. Even if one may be able to cast a 1 gram lure comfortably, my preference leans more towards a spool that breaks well that can get slightly more distance. 

[bulldog1935]

Roro is the lightest spool with fixed brake rotor, titanium spindle, and has light-lure distance edge over everything else.

For my salt BFS niche, I'm moving my Roro spool over to my new Silver Wolf, and keeping the stock Silver Wolf spool in a can as my 34 mm Daiwa backup. 

Ray's SV honeycomb spool has moving rotor with the widest weight range, making it the most versatile, and I fish this full time in both salt ML and with my Steez on my bass BFS-all-range rod (to 5/8 oz). 

 

That's essentially what you need to decide - minimum light weight with fixed rotor, or maximum versatile with moving SV

 

Adding a note here - any time you swap spools, begin by opening the zero adjust knob wide.  Spool spindle lengths vary enough you can damage the palm plate latch trying to close it.  After you swap, set the zero adjust knob to incipient side play. 

[redmeansdistortion]

While they are expensive compared to the non-Daiwa branded spools, the spools from the Gekkabijin and Silver Creek Air TW are direct swaps and work with 1g.  The Silver Creek spool is a fixed inductor and the Gekkabijin spool is similar to the Alphas Air TW spool but with a much less aggressive braking profile.  The Silver Creek spool uses a heavier braking profile as it was designed for close range stream fishing.  With the Gekkabijin, it's tailored more towards distance for fishing rockfish.  Those Daiwa made spools can run over $100 depending on where you get them, which makes them a bit more than the Roro and nearly double the price of a Ray's SV.

[FishTank]

2 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

Roro is the lightest spool with fixed brake rotor, titanium spindle, and has light-lure distance edge over everything else.

For my salt BFS niche, I'm moving my Roro spool over to my new Silver Wolf, and keeping the stock Silver Wolf spool in a can as my 34 mm Daiwa backup. 

Ray's SV honeycomb spool has moving rotor with the widest weight range, making it the most versatile, and I fish this full time in both salt ML and with my Steez on my bass BFS-all-range rod (to 5/8 oz). 

 

That's essentially what you need to decide - minimum light weight with fixed rotor, or maximum versatile with moving SV

 

Adding a note here - any time you swap spools, begin by opening the zero adjust knob wide.  Spool spindle lengths vary enough you can damage the palm plate latch trying to close it.  After you swap, set the zero adjust knob to incipient side play. 

Since I have the Silver Wolf,  what are the advantages of going to an aftermarket spool and what should you look for in one?

[Fishingmickey]

2 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

Roro is the lightest spool with fixed brake rotor, titanium spindle, and has light-lure distance edge over everything else.

For my salt BFS niche, I'm moving my Roro spool over to my new Silver Wolf, and keeping the stock Silver Wolf spool in a can as my 34 mm Daiwa backup. 

Ray's SV honeycomb spool has moving rotor with the widest weight range, making it the most versatile, and I fish this full time in both salt ML and with my Steez on my bass BFS-all-range rod (to 5/8 oz). 

 

That's essentially what you need to decide - minimum light weight with fixed rotor, or maximum versatile with moving SV

 

Adding a note here - any time you swap spools, begin by opening the zero adjust knob wide.  Spool spindle lengths vary enough you can damage the palm plate latch trying to close it.  After you swap, set the zero adjust knob to incipient side play. 

Hi Bulldog,

     I've been thinking of adding the Silverwolf to my arsenal. One of the things holding me back is the lack of line caoacity. Do you know of a good compatible spool that would hold 80-100yards of say 10-12lb Tatsu?

Fishingmickey

[bulldog1935]

@Fishingmickey I noticed filling my Silver Wolf spool, that it's deeper and greater capacity than they report.  I used Pattaya line calculator to back it with 20-lb 832 (35 yds), then top with 100+ yds PE#0.8 I wanted to move there, and it's not close to full (close enough to fish). 

I think you could get a working charge of 8-lb Tatsu on it. 

 

However, Ray's makes a deeper SV spool that weighs 9 g and lists 120 m PE#1.2, which converts to 70 yds 10-lb Tatsu.  Fill it up, and you'd be fishing. 

aor_411 (Delta Fishing) seems to be the Thailand distributor for Ray's. 

 

Other choice is check Japan for a Zillion SV 1012 or spool, which is 100 yds 12-lb mono. Pretty sure JapanTackle sells the spool. 

 

You could have a braid spool and a mono spool, otherwise, just look for a JDM '21 Zillion SV TW 1012. 

______________________________

 

@FishTank My Roro-X spool is for throwing 2.8-g plugs to 130' in salt finesse with distance a priority (across the tide pass, edge of the dock light, or the next dock light).  It was about having a specific target and putting the tackle together to get there.  I worked it out with the Steez, and bought the Silver Wolf to get my magnesium Steez out of the salt and into full-time freshwater bass. 

B/C does everything better with these light plugs - they never foul, where they foul 3/4 when cast with spinning tackle.  Though the long rod is rated to 20 g, I never need to cast above 7 g (1/4 oz) because my salt ML picks up at 1/8 oz, gives plenty of distance, and fishes from a kayak. (Wouldn't consider fishing the salt BFS rod on a kayak, where a slot fish might run the long tip under the boat.) 

ps - I haven't done a back-acre casting trial with the stock Silver Wolf spool yet - I will very soon.  I already know Roro-X will cast loaded 2-g jighead past 130', and Ray's SV honeycomb spool will cast the same lure past 110' 

Haven't quite finished rigging the SW spool - the leader I want to use with it arrives with my PE#0.6 next week. 

[PressuredFishing]

4 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

Roro is the lightest spool with fixed brake rotor, titanium spindle, and has light-lure distance edge over everything else.

For my salt BFS niche, I'm moving my Roro spool over to my new Silver Wolf, and keeping the stock Silver Wolf spool in a can as my 34 mm Daiwa backup. 

Ray's SV honeycomb spool has moving rotor with the widest weight range, making it the most versatile, and I fish this full time in both salt ML and with my Steez on my bass BFS-all-range rod (to 5/8 oz). 

 

That's essentially what you need to decide - minimum light weight with fixed rotor, or maximum versatile with moving SV

 

Adding a note here - any time you swap spools, begin by opening the zero adjust knob wide.  Spool spindle lengths vary enough you can damage the palm plate latch trying to close it.  After you swap, set the zero adjust knob to incipient side play. 

Excellent info! Thanks, I'll look at both for sure, thanks!

[WC53]

The Roro with the higher rating (2-15), 29? Is a heck of an all around light lure spool in the Zillion. Very surprised by it.  I haven’t tried the lighter 1-5gram model.  I use 8lb on the Roro vs 20lb on the standard spool.  Save the 30 for the curado

[ska4fun]

On 7/28/2022 at 5:30 PM, PressuredFishing said:

I own an alphas air tw, it's nice and has been serving me well but wanted a really nice aftermarket spool because I just have more cash to spend and want to switch between 2 different line systems. Roro, avail, chameleon, or another brand of decent quality. Even if one may be able to cast a 1 gram lure comfortably, my preference leans more towards a spool that breaks well that can get slightly more distance. 

 

There is no noticeable difference in quality between aftermarket spools, just branding and aesthetics. I use several ones from Billings and Ray's Studio.

Edited July 30, 2022 by ska4fun
Typing error

[bulldog1935]

Ray's Studio SV spools are made in Thailand.  (If you buy them from the Express site, tracking shows they're first imported into China before being loaded into a shipping container)

Billings spools are made in China.  Both have moving SV rotor. 

 

Momo (AMO) spool is also made in China with fixed rotor. Momo is a supplier for Daiwa. 

Roro spools (titanium spindle) are made in Hong Kong, and Jun Sonada recommends them for casting the lightest weights (he's done the casting trials).  RoroLure has their own website with inexpensive post from Hong Kong to US. 

[redmeansdistortion]

1 hour ago, bulldog1935 said:

Momo is a supplier for Daiwa. 

What does Momo supply to Daiwa?  I know KTF supplies the Air spools for the Alphas platforms with the exception being the original Alphas Air.  Air TW, Gekkabijin, Silver Creek ASC, T3 Air, and SS Air are all KTF.

[bulldog1935]

@redmeansdistortion

I have no idea what parts they make for Daiwa, but found listed as a supplier on the website where I also snagged this map, which I flagged Doyo, also a supplier for Daiwa.  Every dot is a supplier for Daiwa, and the list was Much longer than the number of dots. 

Momo is one of the suppliers on the China coast on the map SSW from Seoul. 

(it would take a long time to find the link I posted with the map before)

[bulldog1935]

@FishTank

I'm back with first cast trials on the stock Silver Wolf spool and stock Daiwa shielded microbearings. 

Casting the same 2 g jighead with plastic body I show in my post above. 

I was consistently casting 80 feet with incipient backlash at a mag setting of 7, so 8 was as low as I could safely set the mag.   (Same lure with Roro in Steez casts much farther and incipient backlash is at mag setting 4)

Don't get me wrong, the SW spool and bearings are smooth, and 80' is plenty for most fishing. 

Just not for my tide passes, and not in the league with Roro and Ray's spools.  The line that was on my Roro spool is now on the SW spool, and I won't have the new braid on the Roro spool at least until tomorrow afternoon. 

 

First thing I did removing the SW spool was swap palm plate bearings for KTF/IXA, which are unshielded, and salt-resistant.  After some more time, I'll try the SW spool again with a bearing swap. 

This shows the stock Daiwa microbearings, Roro microbearings, and KTF/IXA dual microbearings. 

The IXA bearings include a smaller inner race, larger outer race, and are only 3 mm thick, so they include an o-ring spacer for the other mm.  The o-ring goes first into the palm plate or the spool bearing sleeve, and places the thinner bearings in the same spots as the stock 4-mm-thick bearings.   They're also rated to cast higher weights than most microbearings (excepting Daiwa). 

 

It's been argued before that the Daiwa bearings aren't microbearings, but that's what Daiwa calls them, and KTF website gives credit to Daiwa for patenting the first microbearing, which are these. 

[FishTank]

32 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

@FishTank

I'm back with first cast trials on the stock Silver Wolf spool and stock Daiwa shielded microbearings. 

Casting the same 2 g jighead with plastic body I show in my post above. 

I was consistently casting 80 feet with incipient backlash at a mag setting of 7, so 8 was as low as I could safely set the mag.   (Same lure with Roro in Steez casts much farther and incipient backlash is at mag setting 4)

Don't get me wrong, the SW spool and bearings are smooth, and 80' is plenty for most fishing. 

Just not for my tide passes, and not in the league with Roro and Ray's spools.  The line that was on my Roro spool is now on the SW spool, and I won't have the new braid on the Roro spool at least until tomorrow afternoon. 

 

First thing I did removing the SW spool was swap palm plate bearings for KTF/IXA, which are unshielded, and salt-resistant.  After some more time, I'll try the SW spool again with a bearing swap. 

This shows the stock Daiwa microbearings, Roro microbearings, and KTF/IXA dual microbearings. 

The IXA bearings include a smaller inner race, larger outer race, and are only 3 mm thick, so they include an o-ring spacer for the other mm.  The o-ring goes first into the palm plate or the spool bearing sleeve, and places the thinner bearings in the same spots as the stock 4-mm-thick bearings.   They're also rated to cast higher weights than most microbearings. 

 

It's been argued before that the Daiwa bearings aren't microbearings, but that's what Daiwa calls them, and KTF website gives credit to Daiwa for patenting the first microbearing, which are these. 

 

Thanks for getting back.... All good stuff. I usually do most of my tweaking during the winter. This may be a good project for that time. I will have to decide if it's worth the investment. I usually cast about 75 to 100 feet with the stock spool depending on lure weight and the rod I use. Same setting as you. Line so far hasn't really made any difference as long as it's tiny.  That distance is fine for the bass fishing I am doing... Especially when I am out on my buddy's boat. He likes to beat the bank from a short distance. 

 

I did notice the bearings from Daiwa don't really look like micro bearings. They remind me of the bearings used in the Shimano Core 50. Do you know the size of the bearings in the SW?  I also checked out the Roro spool. It looks solid. Did you get the Standard or Senior Player? 

 

What do you think of the drag on the SW?  It has a slow start to me and then it evens out. Its sort of surprisingly strong for a what it is. 

[bulldog1935]

@FishTank

Daiwa and Shimano spool bearings are both 1034, 10 mm x 3 mm hole, x 4 mm thick. 

You can replace the spool bearing sleeve with an 1134 bearing, but I think that bearing can go deeper into the frame (farther away from the spool), while the shouldered sleeve positions the 1034 spool bearing just right. 

 

 

The Daiwa bearings are more like "intermediate" bearings - they're not full diameter steel, but have aluminum sleeves at both diameter extremes.  Since it's tough to get a good google from KTF website, here's what they wrote about them - they're talking about their single-race microbearings, and giving credit to Daiwa (also looks like they pay for Daiwa patent license) :  

　IXA MBS (Micro Bearing System) is a patented technology owned by DAIWA, and maximizes the characteristic of "low inertia" that is excellent in starting rotation even with small force (lightweight lure), which is the greatest advantage of small diameter bearings. It's a bearing system that makes the most of it.
　By adopting and combining IXA ceramic ball bearings that rotate smoothly at high speed with low resistance in this system, the synergistic effect realizes further low inertia and low resistance spool rise. Already in the KTF reel, the system was introduced in advance from Alpha Finess Version 1, but now we have increased the size variations and can be installed on your own reel! The housing is made of stainless steel with high precision and high durability design. Therefore, when the bearing wears out, it is a modular design that allows you to replace only the cerabear. It is a system that even heavy users can use for a long time.

 

I have the KTF/IXA microbearings in all my salt reels, and this is the first time I'm trying the IXA dual bearings.  Logically, the lower-inertia inner race moves first with the spool and may be the only part of the bearing moving with light lures.  Heavier centrifugal loads cause the larger balls in the outer race to spin. 

ps - to order from KTF, I use my Japan broker, noppin.com - I've been using Masamichi as a broker for 20 years - since before you could buy direct from Japan. Because of direct competition, brokers like Noppin and Zen Market have low fees now, about 5%. 

[newapti5]

On 7/29/2022 at 10:38 AM, bulldog1935 said:

However, Ray's makes a deeper SV spool that weighs 9 g and lists 120 m PE#1.2, which converts to 70 yds 10-lb Tatsu.  Fill it up, and you'd be fishing. 

 

Just a side note, I believe this Ray's spool is a fixed-inductor type spool as well, not the SV type as the honey comb version. The inductor does have 4 fixed positions to choose from, though. 

[bulldog1935]

@newapti5

no, you can actually see the ramp for the moving rotor in this photo - why I took it. 

I fish these on two reels, Zillion and Steez, both in wide lure range niches. 

I didn't name it, but Ray's named it SV Honeycomb, because of the moving rotor, and my two definitely have springs to retract the rotor back down the ramp. 

 

 

Pushing a year-and-a-half in ML niche, this reel has never backlashed. 

 

ok, I see - I've never had one of those deeper Ray's spools, which are actually about the same depth as the stock SW spool. 

 

@KP Duty on another thread reported about Very Nice Japan-made ZPI spools still available for Tatula. 

[Tatulatard]

54 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

@newapti5

no, you can actually see the ramp for the moving rotor in this photo - why I took it. 

I fish these on two reels, Zillion and Steez, both in wide lure range niches. 

I didn't name it, but Ray's named it SV Honeycomb, because of the moving rotor, and my two definitely have springs to retract the rotor back down the ramp. 

 

 

Pushing a year-and-a-half in ML niche, this reel has never backlashed. 

The higher capacity rays spool you linked earlier does not however.  That one has a fixed rotor with 4 positions.  The new ark reels also make use of this spool from what I am seeing.  I want to try one.

[WC53]

The movable rotor were always out of stock when I was looking. Given how well the fixed rotor Roro casts, I wonder how much difference there is.

[bulldog1935]

@WC53 Roro is electric fast, and makes all the difference when you get below 4 g. 

I just got my spool reloaded w/ 120 yds PE#0.6 - won't cast it until the heat eases off, but the free-fall difference between Roro and the stock Daiwa SW spool  with 2-g jighead is pretty shocking. 

Roro doesn't tolerate any jerk in your cast. 

Most are going to find the Ray's SV spool safer, more forgiving with light braid, won't cost anything they'll notice for the insurance, and it's a better choice to push weights out to 3/8 oz and more. 

[newapti5]

I have a fixed-inductor deeper AMO spool, which has a bit smaller line capacity than the original Zillion SV Boost spool. It's not for BFS, but cast 1/4~1/2oz lures pretty well.  Its inductor is totally fixed, no positions to adjust. 

 

 

 

 

[ska4fun]

Billings, Ray's studio and Momo Studio/AMO have very good spools too.

[bulldog1935]

@WC53 @FishTank

I have been through a whole gang of trials with spools and bearings. 

3 spools, 3 reels, 3 bearings - didn't test every combination, but mixed it up enough to identify the trends, and pick my applications. 

The constant was this lure, which is a 2-g jighead.  Also walking back and forth across my casting range, I measured slightly downwind casts, and used the slightly upwind casts to set mag brake. 

 

 

The Silver Wolf spool turned out to be more competitive than my initial casting trial.  Stock Silver Wolf spool with stock Daiwa bearings cast consistently to 90'.  Swapping to unshielded microbearings increased that distance to 100', so 10% difference in the bearings. 

The Roro-X spool on Silver Wolf also would not cast beyond 100'.  You pay for the fast-pitch line lay with 10-15% cast distance.  However, for just about any big fish and small braid application, it's worth it to not suffer line dig with finesse braid. 

The Ray's spool cast 110' on Steez and Zillion. 

The Roro-X spool on Steez cast 130'.  Roro bearings seem to have a slight light-lure edge over the IXA bearings, but the double ball bearings are a boon for wide weight range. 

 

Made me reconsider my applications.  Steez and Roro with PE#0.8 is going to stay in my salt BFS niche.  I'll just be extra careful with exposure and cleaning (It has the same magseal drive as SW). 

Silver Wolf  with the stock spool is going on my bass BFS rod.  Casts all the distance I need there, and totally forgiving. 

The wide-range IXA bearings are going on my salt ML and bass BFS, where they're casting the widest weight ranges.  My extra Ray's spool is going to back up all my 34 mm Daiwa. 

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

4 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

@WC53 @FishTankthe Roro-X spool on Silver Wolf also would not cast beyond 100'.  You pay for the fast-pitch line lay with 10-15% cast distance.  However, for just about any big fish and small braid application, it's worth it to not suffer line dig with finesse braid. 

 

Thats what I'm finding this Roro x spool does very well. Ive been pushing the weight limit of the spool a bit throwing Fat ikas with 8# line. No digging at all no mid cast stoppage fish after fish and the distance is great.

Also on the lighter end where digging might show more easily, none so far.