Rod for BFS reel

[T-Billy]

1 hour ago, ska4fun said:

I'm seeing the finesse thing is lacking here, since a ML/MM rod is in no way or form, a finesse one.

 

BFS means more than lure weight, it involves several strategies over fishing with light presentations, either in a power fishing or pure finesse manner.

 

Seems like several people  want to claim do baitfinesse, without the cons of fishing with really UL gear.

 

 

[ska4fun]

16 minutes ago, Tatulatard said:

Whatever meaning it had in Japan has been completely lost and roughly translates these days to "baitcasting ackle for light weights for any species".  We have Ajing, 7+ foot long salt rods and trout rods being thrown around as "BFS" just because it's an easy acronym to throw around.

ML does fall it into the BFS camp.  Shimano BFS lines of their bass rods top out with ML.  

 

Because Shimano grossly underrates it's rods power. Shimano ''BFS'' rods are a joke, MM rods trying to pry on BFS hype.

[bulldog1935]

On another thread, it was strenuously argued by those who want to be in charge that a stream trout rod couldn't be a BFS rod, yet the term Bait Finesse System was coined in print by a stream trout fisherman 20+ years ago, who described it for that exact use...

 

BFS is a reel.  Any rod that works well with it is a BFS rod.  I hope this thing is on. 

[roarlionsxc]

3 hours ago, new2BC4bass said:

Apparently I didn't do a very good job reading your post the first time.  I have an older BPS Crankin' Stick...a 7' MLF rated 1/16-1/2 oz.  Paired with on older gold colored Carbonlite, it was one of 3 combos I learned to cast 3/16 oz. #5 Shad Raps on so I know it will do a good job with that weight.

That’s the exact rod I have. Thank you! 

[FishTank]

2 hours ago, ska4fun said:

 

Because Shimano grossly underrates it's rods power. Shimano ''BFS'' rods are a joke, MM rods trying to pry on BFS hype.

 

I played with a Shimano Zodias BFS rod this weekend (might have been a 7'2'' ML Mod Fast). In any case, I didn't care for it but it can handle what I would term "Bass BFS" and it's not even close to a "Trout BFS" rod (or as bulldog sort of put... a rod capable using a BFS reel).  I was casting a 1/4oz Shad Rap. One of the harder baits to cast in my opinion and it did fine.  I didn't like how the rod felt in hand though. It was sort of stiff and not in a good way. Casting with one hand seemed difficult.  I ended up ordering a Megabass P5 Criffhanger instead. 

[ska4fun]

8 hours ago, FishTank said:

 

I played with a Shimano Zodias BFS rod this weekend (might have been a 7'2'' ML Mod Fast). In any case, I didn't care for it but it can handle what I would term "Bass BFS" and it's not even close to a "Trout BFS" rod (or as bulldog sort of put... a rod capable using a BFS reel).  I was casting a 1/4oz Shad Rap. One of the harder baits to cast in my opinion and it did fine.  I didn't like how the rod felt in hand though. It was sort of stiff and not in a good way. Casting with one hand seemed difficult.  I ended up ordering a Megabass P5 Criffhanger instead. 

 

Shimano mid-high end rods lack refinement. Bass BFS rods theoretically should be fast action UL. Most rods can deal with a BFS reel, the extreme low spool inertia makes the reel take some of the rod's job in casting. That's not a good criterion.

 

I have a Shimano Compre rod rated as a 15lb rod. And I use it to fish Tarpons with live bait, because the rod is grossly underrated. It's at least a 20lb rod.

 

What Shimano gain in underrating their rods? Less problems over breaking. Less warranty issues. Cheaper IM6-IM7/24-30ton blanks priced as IM8/36ton ones.

[Eric 26]

On 7/24/2022 at 8:28 PM, roarlionsxc said:

That’s the exact rod I have. Thank you! 

I’m curious if you tried it out yet? I for one would enjoy hearing your thoughts on the rod/setup.

[Tatulatard]

On 7/24/2022 at 6:20 PM, bulldog1935 said:

On another thread, it was strenuously argued by those who want to be in charge that a stream trout rod couldn't be a BFS rod, yet the term Bait Finesse System was coined in print by a stream trout fisherman 20+ years ago, who described it for that exact use...

 

BFS is a reel.  Any rod that works well with it is a BFS rod.  I hope this thing is on. 

Is the text you posed and the image provided unrelated?  That length, power and description are that of the classic BFS rod. That is no stream or area trout rod.

[Tatulatard]

On 7/24/2022 at 9:10 PM, FishTank said:

 

I played with a Shimano Zodias BFS rod this weekend (might have been a 7'2'' ML Mod Fast). In any case, I didn't care for it but it can handle what I would term "Bass BFS" and it's not even close to a "Trout BFS" rod (or as bulldog sort of put... a rod capable using a BFS reel).  I was casting a 1/4oz Shad Rap. One of the harder baits to cast in my opinion and it did fine.  I didn't like how the rod felt in hand though. It was sort of stiff and not in a good way. Casting with one hand seemed difficult.  I ended up ordering a Megabass P5 Criffhanger instead. 

Because a BFS rod (bass rod) is very different from a trout rod.  Plenty of brand offer both and what we see time and time again is the bass rods get the BFS treatment and the trout rods are broken down into stream or area and are not referred to as BFS rods.  Perhaps this is just a way of designating certain models within a bass rod lineup as the lighter powered, finesse orientated rods by adding BFS onto the end but the fact is that if it has BFS on it then there are a near 100% chance it's a bass stick and you will be hard pressed to find a trout rod from Japan with BFS written on it.  If it's from Japan and has BFS written right on it then its a BFS stick.  If that means they are all too stiff to cast trout mangents, well, get a trout rod.  

[fishwizzard]

On 7/24/2022 at 7:20 PM, bulldog1935 said:

On another thread, it was strenuously argued by those who want to be in charge that a stream trout rod couldn't be a BFS rod, yet the term Bait Finesse System was coined in print by a stream trout fisherman 20+ years ago, who described it for that exact use...

 

BFS is a reel.  Any rod that works well with it is a BFS rod.  I hope this thing is on. 

I completely disagree with that, if you look at the Japanese rods that actually have BFS or Biat Finesse in the name/code, they’re all generally of a similar type, a light tip progressing to a fairly substantial backbone.  I’ve never seen a L/UL saltwater rod or trout rod with that verbage anywhere in the description or name.

 

[bulldog1935]

You disagree with the JDM bass all-range BFS rod being called a BFS rod by the manufacturer,

 

or the JDM inshore salt BFS rod being called a finesse rod by the manufacturer? 

 

Finesse rods are progressive taper by definition. The Japanese have been shore fishing rods like this for hundreds of years - they called it Cara.  In the '30s the Brits called them Threadline, which was revived in the 80s by people making XUL bass rods from fly rod blanks. 

My JDM salt finesse rods go back 14 years. 

 

If BFS is marked on the rod, it's marketing hype. 

[WC53]

??‍♂️?
 

seems like bfs is just fishing light finesse baits. The new low inertia bfs reels and spools enable this to occur (with the bait caster)

 

Now choose the rod based on the targeted species.  d**n BFS gets complicated around here.

[FishTank]

30 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

You disagree with the JDM bass all-range BFS rod being called a BFS rod by the manufacturer,

 

or the JDM inshore salt BFS rod being called a finesse rod by the manufacturer? 

 

Finesse rods are progressive taper by definition. 

My JDM salt finesse rods go back 14 years. 

 

If BFS is marked on the rod, it's marketing hype. 

 

Ya, I have yet to see a rod marked on the blank as BFS. Finnese,  yes. My question on what you said.... How does a "progressive taper" differ from the normal labeling of Fast, X'fast, Moderate,  etc. and how does that relate to BFS fishing?  

 

As it looks, there are three different relms of BFS fishing with no real definitive guidelines (despite our best efforts to define them)..... Saltwater,  Stream/Trout, and Bass. The reels to are designed to work between the three but rods are a different story.  

 

[bulldog1935]

Actually, it couldn't be simpler.  It's when people try to apply their personal limits to others' definitions that it becomes complicated. 

The term BFS = bait finesse system, talking about a reel, and was coined in print by a Japanese stream trout fishermen in 2000, who then wrote books on shore bass fishing. 

Bait reels like this also existed in the 30s. 

 

@FishTank

A good dry fly rod has what fly fishermen would call a super-progressive taper, short soft tip, long fast mid, powerful butt. 

(the opposite taper in a fly rod would be semi-para wet-fly or short para close-space rod - these rods have faster tips, slower mids and flex into the butt).

The same super-progressive blank makes a perfect finesse rod for spinning or bait, and if you took the finesse rod blank, it would make a good dry fly rod. 

The paras load more of the total rod length when casting more weight, and have a narrow weight range.  With progressive, the rod loads in a band moving progressively down the blank.  This gives accuracy and forgiving feel, protects the lightest line, and casts the widest lure weight range.  The butt is there for turning big fish. 

[Tatulatard]

1 hour ago, FishTank said:

 

Ya, I have yet to see a rod marked on the blank as BFS. Finnese,  yes. My question on what you said.... How does a "progressive taper" differ from the normal labeling of Fast, X'fast, Moderate,  etc. and how does that relate to BFS fishing?  

 

As it looks, there are three different relms of BFS fishing with no real definitive guidelines (despite our best efforts to define them)..... Saltwater,  Stream/Trout, and Bass. The reels to are designed to work between the three but rods are a different story.  

 

Plenty of BFS rods will have have BFS written right on them.  That's how "BFS" came into use in US bass fishing circles.  If I remember correctly one of the 1st to really catch on were the majorcraft BFS rods which have BFS on the rod.  People were ecstatic about them and remembered reading the 1st hand accounts of the rods.  They were unlike any "light" or "ultra light" powered rods they had encountered before and were much more powerful and with soft tips but could still handle a bass in cover.  Perhaps that is the progressive taper.  One thing was clear: these were fundamentally different from normal light or ultra light powered rods and while they had no idea what BFS meant it was important enough to put on the outside of the rod. After this, then you spoke of a BFS rod it was these rods and that taper is what was associated with the term.

 

 

Contrast this with something like a trout rod which is a completely different rod from a BFS rod in build and it is important to make the destinction.  You read all these reviews about how a BFS rod has all this power and is built like a medium or medium light casting rod with a soft taper to cast down to 1/16 oz jigs and then go buy a trout rod because someone told you it was a "BFS" rod only to find that it folds in half at the real seat as soon as you hook a 2lb bass.  You would be disappointed.  People have done this and been disappointed.  I did this and was disappointed.  I had to do a lot of lurking and reading of old threads across two forums to learn the truth of what had happened. 

 

Its not complicated.  There exist special finesse casting rods within Japanese bass rods lines that have this taper that allows them to cast light weight baits but still be a powerful rod able to control a big bass in cover.  These bass rods are built completely different from a panfish or trout rod.  Seabass rods can be very similar but are usually very long.  So when someone, on a bass fishing forum, wants a BFS rod then that means they want to catch bass with it.  They want to throw bass baits.  They want the rod that was designed for bass baits.  They dont want a 5' trout rod.  They don't want a 8'2" sea bass rod.  

 

This is why it is not helpful to call everything a BFS rod.  For example, If someone wants a crankbait rod for squarebills then appropriate recommendations would NOT include flipping sticks, tuna rods or history lessons about how in the 1930s everyone called reels winders and aksually all rods are winder rods or some other tangent. Maybe its like "flipping" which has lost all meaning.  I guess a flipping rod is a medium spinning rod because making a short accurate cast is "flipping the bait out there".  BFS was even more loosely defined than flipping so it has devolved to "casting light weights but with a baitcaster".  That soon will devolve into "casting light weights".

 

Things change over time but what really struck me in this thread is the understanding of what a BFS rod is has devolved to the point where an actual BFS rod, from Japan, with BFS in the name of the rod is said not to be a BFS rod because it doesn't cast as light a weight as a trout rod.

 

 

[Tatulatard]

This a good read on some of the 1st BFS rods to make their way into the US bass fishing scene and memeber reactions to them.  I remember reading this lurking the forum and then buying a trout rod like a dummy before I figured out my mistake.

 

[fishwizzard]

9 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

You disagree with the JDM bass all-range BFS rod being called a BFS rod by the manufacturer,

 

or the JDM inshore salt BFS rod being called a finesse rod by the manufacturer? 

 

Finesse rods are progressive taper by definition. The Japanese have been shore fishing rods like this for hundreds of years - they called it Cana.  In the '30s the Brits called them threadline, which was revived in the 80s by people making XUL bass rods from fly rod blanks. 

My JDM salt finesse rods go back 14 years. 

 

If BFS is marked on the rod, it's marketing hype. 

It’s not hype, it’s an accurate description of a rod’s general characteristics to distinguish it with from other rods in its power range.   Nothing you’ve posted has refuted my argument, the term “BFS” refers to a fairly specific class of rods, very distinct from other casting rods in the general ultralight/light power range.

[fishwizzard]

7 hours ago, Tatulatard said:

Plenty of BFS rods will have have BFS written right on them.  That's how "BFS" came into use in US bass fishing circles.  If I remember correctly one of the 1st to really catch on were the majorcraft BFS rods which have BFS on the rod.  People were ecstatic about them and remembered reading the 1st hand accounts of the rods.  They were unlike any "light" or "ultra light" powered rods they had encountered before and were much more powerful and with soft tips but could still handle a bass in cover.  Perhaps that is the progressive taper.  One thing was clear: these were fundamentally different from normal light or ultra light powered rods and while they had no idea what BFS meant it was important enough to put on the outside of the rod. After this, then you spoke of a BFS rod it was these rods and that taper is what was associated with the term.

 

 

Contrast this with something like a trout rod which is a completely different rod from a BFS rod in build and it is important to make the destinction.  You read all these reviews about how a BFS rod has all this power and is built like a medium or medium light casting rod with a soft taper to cast down to 1/16 oz jigs and then go buy a trout rod because someone told you it was a "BFS" rod only to find that it folds in half at the real seat as soon as you hook a 2lb bass.  You would be disappointed.  People have done this and been disappointed.  I did this and was disappointed.  I had to do a lot of lurking and reading of old threads across two forums to learn the truth of what had happened. 

 

Its not complicated.  There exist special finesse casting rods within Japanese bass rods lines that have this taper that allows them to cast light weight baits but still be a powerful rod able to control a big bass in cover.  These bass rods are built completely different from a panfish or trout rod.  Seabass rods can be very similar but are usually very long.  So when someone, on a bass fishing forum, wants a BFS rod then that means they want to catch bass with it.  They want to throw bass baits.  They want the rod that was designed for bass baits.  They dont want a 5' trout rod.  They don't want a 8'2" sea bass rod.  

 

This is why it is not helpful to call everything a BFS rod.  For example, If someone wants a crankbait rod for squarebills then appropriate recommendations would NOT include flipping sticks, tuna rods or history lessons about how in the 1930s everyone called reels winders and aksually all rods are winder rods or some other tangent. Maybe its like "flipping" which has lost all meaning.  I guess a flipping rod is a medium spinning rod because making a short accurate cast is "flipping the bait out there".  BFS was even more loosely defined than flipping so it has devolved to "casting light weights but with a baitcaster".  That soon will devolve into "casting light weights".

 

Things change over time but what really struck me in this thread is the understanding of what a BFS rod is has devolved to the point where an actual BFS rod, from Japan, with BFS in the name of the rod is said not to be a BFS rod because it doesn't cast as light a weight as a trout rod.

 

 

Hello my soulmate, I cannot understand how this become such a complicated issue for people. There is a vast spectrum of ultralight/light casting rods out there and Bait Finesse System rods are a niche inside the greater niche. 

[roarlionsxc]

On 7/26/2022 at 2:48 PM, Eric 26 said:

I’m curious if you tried it out yet? I for one would enjoy hearing your thoughts on the rod/setup.

i'm buying a bfs reel soon and i'll let you know how it works out!

[roadwarrior]