External sleeve rod repair

[MickD]

I've seen posts on many forums that express the opinion that any repaired fishing rod (repair of a complete break) will never fish well again.  I use the process detailed here:  https://www.rodbuilding.org/library/repair-oquinn.html

 

I've done a good number of them, and all of the rods fished well after repair.  I just completed one that I had built a couple years ago.  It was broken cleanly about 10 inches below the tip.  At initial build I had documented the CCS numbers on the rod, and after repair, I rechecked them.  They were almost identical for both power and action.  Within expected test error.  The sleeve, reinforcing wraps and epoxy totaled only .018 ounce.  The rod "feels" the same.  The owner is happy as  a clam that his favorite rod has been salvaged.  

 

I recommend that one give it a try before scrapping a broken rod.  If the rod cannot be repaired one is wise to keep the pieces so they might be used to repair a rod in the future. 

[casts_by_fly]

Mick,

 

Where do you get your sleeves from?  I've saved up various pieces of broken rods, ones others have thrown away, etc.  I used to have access to a bunch of older fiberglass junk rods.  I've done that fix a few times and agree that if you pick the right sleeve there is no problem at all.  I just don't have a repository of materials.

 

thanks

rick

[Jigfishn10]

That's great that you were able to repair rods that fished well and were brought back to specs, @MickD. I tried it on 1 rod that I really liked and did notice a difference in action. I still use the rod, but, to me, it's not the same.

 

I have a broken rod that I was contemplating on trying a repair to. Maybe after reading your post, I'll try again.

 

Thank you for posting the article as well. I have read that in the past, but have forgotten it. 

 

Guten tag.

[Chris Catignani]

I've done this on about six different rods...most of the rods were medium heavy. The slow/fast rods are a little trickier. I dropped a 2x4 out of a rafter that fell on these two rods. One was my grass rake and the other was my flippin stick.

[Deleted account]

You can repair pretty much any break, but it will not fish the same, particularly if it is higher up on the blank. Sure some or most folks probably won't notice a difference, but I can tell the difference between my identical rods that measure the same on the bench. I number them on the cork handle, and I certainly have a favorite of the 2 to 4 of each I own.

[MickD]

1 hour ago, Deleted account said:

but it will not fish the same, particularly if it is higher up on the blank.

I respectfully disagree.  The biggest issue is the visual of having the sleeve on the rod.  Yes, the 18/1000 of an ounce theoretically will slow the response of the rod, but for most rods, it is not noticed.  The action on two of the rods I've fixed was checked (CCS ERN & AA) before and after the break and both the power and action numbers were unchanged.   One is an ultra light power that one would expect would be affected more than more powerful rods, but I cannot measure the difference.  I don't have true natural frequency numbers from before the break.

 

I liken it to having the mongrel down the road impregnate one's prize bird dog.  It will still hunt well, but in the back of the mind. . . 

 

It is certainly worth a try.  If it doesn't seem right it can be used for another purpose, like a kid's starter rod.  I have an 8 weight fly rod that "exploded" and I fixed it.  It casts fine, but I use it for a spare.

2 hours ago, Chris Catignani said:

The slow/fast rods are a little trickier.

What is a "slow/fast" rod?

[Chris Catignani]

6 minutes ago, MickD said:

What is a "slow/fast" rod?

These are actions of a rod. There's fast, moderate and slow.

The slash (/) is there to indicate "or".

 

[MickD]

So slow or fast rods are trickier?  Than what, moderate action?  Just trying to understand.

 

I've not noticed that action makes any difference.  Of course the higher the power and the closer to the butt the less one would expect a rod to show a difference with repair.  

[Chris Catignani]

1 hour ago, MickD said:

So slow or fast rods are trickier?  Than what, moderate action?  Just trying to understand.

 

I've not noticed that action makes any difference.  Of course the higher the power and the closer to the butt the less one would expect a rod to show a difference with repair.  

I may have not worded it correctly...

How about....areas of the rod that have a lot of bend are trickier. ie the bend in a fast tip.

You would need a more pliable inside and outside stint....typically glass. And you would need to use the feathering techniques mentioned in Ralph's article.

 

[spoonplugger1]

If you do the repair as per Ralph O'Quinn and Mick stated you will have good results, if you do it like Chris suggests, you will have problems, the first visual is Chris used a carbon sleeve, do not do that, it is quaranteed to produce a giant flat spot that will have more power than anything around it, there is a real chance of a stress failure at the ends again. Use glass, the lower modulus will insure the blank bends similar to both of the blank's ends. The larger diameter gives it the strength and durability to span the break reliably.

Many times now days people really don't read and understand what is important to do, this is not a time to not read and understand Ralph's article if you really love this rod and want to continue enjoying it.

Who is Ralph O'Quinn? The owner of U 40 rod building products and an aerospace engineer who developed the system used to hold the ceramic heat shield tiles on the space shuttle.

[MickD]

I have used an inside stent only once on a fly rod that had so many loose pieces that I needed it to stabilize the blank until the epoxy cured.  I use only external sleeves.  Using both inside and outside risks getting it too stiff, in my opinion.  

 

I prefer glass, but I have used cheapie low mod graphite when I haven't had the right size glass, and it seemed to work OK.  I didn't detect a flat spot.  

[Chris Catignani]

16 minutes ago, spoonplugger1 said:

If you do the repair as per Ralph O'Quinn and Mick stated you will have good results, if you do it like Chris suggests, you will have problems, the first visual is Chris used a carbon sleeve, do not do that, it is quaranteed to produce a giant flat spot that will have more power than anything around it, there is a real chance of a stress failure at the ends again. Use glass, the lower modulus will insure the blank bends similar to both of the blank's ends. The larger diameter gives it the strength and durability to span the break reliably.

Where did I suggest how to do it? I learned personally from Ralph O'quinn.

How can you possibly know there are flat spots (which there not)? The material I use on my two rather stiff rods is quite pliable and flexes as the rest of the blank does.

Nothing wrong with carbon stints when you can get away with it.

 

Here an excert from Ralph's article about the internal stint.

Quote

Don't forget the tapered ends. The bend moment on this area will be quite severe. Maybe enough for the graphite sections to rupture the low modulus sleeve even though it is wrapped and coated. To counter this shearing force, we will install a very small piece of either fiberglass or graphite on the INSIDE. 

 And from the section on outer sleeve construction

Quote

In this type of repair I have attempted several times to make the inner plug from fiberglass instead of graphite, and the rod always feels mushy. If we had chosen to shorten the rod by joining the two pieces with no gap to be filled between them, then fiberglass seems to be satisfactory for the inner plug. But whenever there is this extension a graphite plug for a graphite rod is necessary.

 

[MickD]

10 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

Mick,

be

Old broken rods, some I just cut up for repairs if I don't have plans to fish them, pawn shops for a few.  But yes this is the biggest issue, getting the materials for sleeves.   I also bought some glass tubes on line.