Not happy with new reel quality, even cheap old gear seems better than new

[Cgolf]

Disclaimer, I am not saying run out and buy low end gear now and expect great things!

 

So I have 5 older reels that I like to use. A Shakespeare excursion (not the one I have posted in the past that was retired after last season this is a second one I had bought at same time that was little used), Daiwa Viento, and 3 Quantum accurists. All of the reels are 15 to 20 years old and are silky smooth and all have seen action this year except one of the accurists. The 4 baitcasters have never been cleaned or relubed and they have never given me a reason to think they need it.

 

Fast forward I have bought some 150$+ baitcasters, on sale never full price, over the last 3 years to replace the old reels and I have to say that many feel geary and not the same level of quality as the older baitcasters. The one thing they do better though is of course casting distance, so that does generally push the old reels out of the boat, except the one I forgot about the black max 3600 round reel that while a tank is the best reel I own and I paid 10 bucks for it at an estate sale and it probably outcasts all others by a fair bit.

 

Spinning reels I will admit to being a Daiwa regal guy, despite the brittle bail springs, and I tried the Presidents too late because I got the ones that are super geary no matter how much grease I try to pack in there. That old Shakespeare excursion I used this morning is right on par with the Daiwa regals and a lot better than the presidents.

 

Without spending tons of money either on initial purchase or upgrades, is there a way to get that fit and finish we saw way back when? I am half tempted to see how bad a newer Shakespeare excursion feels. I will say I was very pleasantly surprised by the red and black Shimano Sienna 2000 spinning reel. They are super smooth and at 30 bucks I bought 3 total to cover most of my spinning rods, so have found some good deals.

[redmeansdistortion]

Something to keep in mind.  Many older reels have slower gearing and as such may sound less geary due to the lesser number of teeth.  I have some newer reels that are in different ratios but the same model, and the higher speed variants do have a little more mechanical noise in the drive train.  Just the nature of the beast.  More teeth meshing means more noise.

[garroyo130]

14 minutes ago, redmeansdistortion said:

Something to keep in mind.  Many older reels have slower gearing and as such may sound less geary due to the lesser number of teeth.  I have some newer reels that are in different ratios but the same model, and the higher speed variants do have a little more mechanical noise in the drive train.  Just the nature of the beast.  More teeth meshing means more noise.

 

I always thought that was the other way around. More teeth = smoother operation.

 

One thing about older reels is that bushings wont give a geary feeling the way bad bearings will.

[redmeansdistortion]

13 minutes ago, garroyo130 said:

 

I always thought that was the other way around. More teeth = smoother operation.

 

One thing about older reels is that bushings wont give a geary feeling the way bad bearings will.

More teeth is typically smoother, but also potentially more noise.

[Cgolf]

1 hour ago, garroyo130 said:

 

I always thought that was the other way around. More teeth = smoother operation.

 

One thing about older reels is that bushings wont give a geary feeling the way bad bearings will.

 

It depends on the pitch of the gears. Back in my RC car days 32 pitch gears were super noisy and thankfully we went to 48 pitch with the offroad cars to give some gearing flexibility and reduce the noise and increase efficiency. For onroad cars we used 64 pitch gears which were very quiet and efficient but a bit fragile. A good wall slap once in a while would strip a plastic 64 pitch spur gear.

[Mbirdsley]

1 hour ago, Cgolf said:

Disclaimer, I am not saying run out and buy low end gear now and expect great things!

 

So I have 5 older reels that I like to use. A Shakespeare excursion (not the one I have posted in the past that was retired after last season this is a second one I had bought at same time that was little used), Daiwa Viento, and 3 Quantum accurists. All of the reels are 15 to 20 years old and are silky smooth and all have seen action this year except one of the accurists. The 4 baitcasters have never been cleaned or relubed and they have never given me a reason to think they need it.

 

Fast forward I have bought some 150$+ baitcasters, on sale never full price, over the last 3 years to replace the old reels and I have to say that many feel geary and not the same level of quality as the older baitcasters. The one thing they do better though is of course casting distance, so that does generally push the old reels out of the boat, except the one I forgot about the black max 3600 round reel that while a tank is the best reel I own and I paid 10 bucks for it at an estate sale and it probably outcasts all others by a fair bit.

 

Spinning reels I will admit to being a Daiwa regal guy, despite the brittle bail springs, and I tried the Presidents too late because I got the ones that are super geary no matter how much grease I try to pack in there. That old Shakespeare excursion I used this morning is right on par with the Daiwa regals and a lot better than the presidents.

 

Without spending tons of money either on initial purchase or upgrades, is there a way to get that fit and finish we saw way back when? I am half tempted to see how bad a newer Shakespeare excursion feels. I will say I was very pleasantly surprised by the red and black Shimano Sienna 2000 spinning reel. They are super smooth and at 30 bucks I bought 3 total to cover most of my spinning rods, so have found some good deals.

I’ve got a 10 year old accurist ac30pti and the thing has been a tank.  When I bought it all I was doing was river fishing by wadding. So it got the crap kicked out if it.  I havnt fished it much in the last 3 years but, it’s outlived 2 presidents, 1 okuma avenger, and 1 okuma cemar-30. If the reel was a size smaller  I would still be using it. 
 

I also have a quantum accurist bait caster with the flipping switch.  Again havnt used it much as of late but, it’s out live a supreme and a silver max.

 

for some reason quantum and especially the accurist line doesn’t get much love.  I feel they are underrated. 

[Mobasser]

I think what you might be experiencing is lower weight. My own reels are a mix of older and newer models. The newer ones are so much lighter.                                                Ive heard guys complain that the new reels feel cheap, plasticy, and not durable. In the rush to reduce weight on our reels, this may be the case for some folks.            I like the newer lighter weight reels, and haven't had any problems with Shimano or Lew's stuff. Just an idea.

[A-Jay]

6 hours ago, Cgolf said:

Disclaimer, I am not saying run out and buy low end gear now and expect great things!

 

So I have 5 older reels that I like to use. A Shakespeare excursion (not the one I have posted in the past that was retired after last season this is a second one I had bought at same time that was little used), Daiwa Viento, and 3 Quantum accurists. All of the reels are 15 to 20 years old and are silky smooth and all have seen action this year except one of the accurists. The 4 baitcasters have never been cleaned or relubed and they have never given me a reason to think they need it.

 

Fast forward I have bought some 150$+ baitcasters, on sale never full price, over the last 3 years to replace the old reels and I have to say that many feel geary and not the same level of quality as the older baitcasters. The one thing they do better though is of course casting distance, so that does generally push the old reels out of the boat, except the one I forgot about the black max 3600 round reel that while a tank is the best reel I own and I paid 10 bucks for it at an estate sale and it probably outcasts all others by a fair bit.

 

Spinning reels I will admit to being a Daiwa regal guy, despite the brittle bail springs, and I tried the Presidents too late because I got the ones that are super geary no matter how much grease I try to pack in there. That old Shakespeare excursion I used this morning is right on par with the Daiwa regals and a lot better than the presidents.

 

Without spending tons of money either on initial purchase or upgrades, is there a way to get that fit and finish we saw way back when? I am half tempted to see how bad a newer Shakespeare excursion feels. I will say I was very pleasantly surprised by the red and black Shimano Sienna 2000 spinning reel. They are super smooth and at 30 bucks I bought 3 total to cover most of my spinning rods, so have found some good deals.

I say have your older reels serviced by a professional just one time and see what you think. I'm betting you'll be pleasantly surprised at what you get back.  Reel performance often deteriorates over time.  Like most anything with moving parts used near water,  servicing them regularly is a solid plan.

A-Jay

 

[Tatulatard]

Modern reels have fast ratios with tiny teeth on their pinon gears, light weight frames and plastic side plates.  A heavier 9oz old reel with slow ratios is just more likely to be butter and stay butter than some 6oz modern reel especially if it is graphite bodied or has aluminum gears.  

[newapti5]

Nowadays I tend to separate reel smoothness/durability from performance. The latter keeps getting better, while the former pretty much stays the same, or even gets worse. 

[QED]

1 hour ago, newapti5 said:

Nowadays I tend to separate reel smoothness/durability from performance. The latter keeps getting better, while the former pretty much stays the same, or even gets worse. 

I only have experience at the high end of mass produced gear, but smoothness and durability seem to be concurrently improving.

[J Francho]

I'm not sure what the performance means in the context of a reel. I mean it holds line, pays it out, reels it in. It's not pulling 1g on a skid pad. 

[Cgolf]

1 hour ago, J Francho said:

I'm not sure what the performance means in the context of a reel. I mean it holds line, pays it out, reels it in. It's not pulling 1g on a skid pad. 

For me all the reels perform, some just feel smooth when reeling and others feel like they are rough or grinding slightly when I reel. I prefer the former but deal with the latter. My top price point keeps me out of the high end market so I have come to accept this but wish they were smoother. New baitcasters definitely cast further and easier. 

The question is why would an aluminum framed baitcaster in the 200 buck range feel rough like that. My highest gear ratio is in the 6 range none are 7 or above. 

 

could be I just have bad luck, who knows. 

[Cgolf]

7 hours ago, A-Jay said:

I say have your older reels serviced by a professional just one time and see what you think. I'm betting you'll be pleasantly surprised at what you get back.  Reel performance often deteriorates over time.  Like most anything with moving parts used near water,  servicing them regularly is a solid plan.

A-Jay

 

With rare exceptions those reels are benched for reels that cast further at this point. This year I took way too many rods with me so a couple saw time on the water. 
 

The cheap spinning reel sits on an ugly stick in my truck all summer for random shore fishing stops. 

[A-Jay]

3 minutes ago, Cgolf said:

With rare exceptions those reels are benched for reels that cast further at this point. This year I took way too many rods with me so a couple saw time on the water.

 

I am willing to bet a bag of Flat worms,

that your benched for low performance reels are in dire need of service.

15 to 20 years old reels that have never been cleaned 

(and that no longer cast well) Always benefit from a little TLC.

Perhaps think of the cost as an investment, in your tackle.

A-Jay

 

 

 

[newapti5]

1 hour ago, J Francho said:

I'm not sure what the performance means in the context of a reel. I mean it holds line, pays it out, reels it in. It's not pulling 1g on a skid pad. 

 

Casting distance, range, accuracy, whether prone to backlash, drag smoothness... there are the ones I deem "reel performance." 

 

Smoothness, durability, quietness, ergonomic shape, weight... these are the ones I deem not performance related. 

 

This is just my opinion; some of them aren't that easy to categorized. 

[roadwarrior]

Strong, silent and reliant.

That's the original Shimano mantra.

[Boomstick]

I have not had any issues. $200 buys a real nice reel whether it's a Daiwa Tatula SV or a Shimano SLX MGL70.

[A kid from Canada]

I have been disappointed with the reel quality out there as well. If I spin my Tatula 100 pretty quick you can feel/hear the loose tolerances. Especially when you lightly shake it. It's a 6:1 which should be smoother than a higher gear ratio I'm told but it feels like rubbing 2 pieces of paper together when I reel in. There is also significant play in the clutch when I pinch it and wiggle it around. I own a few Tatulas and the 100 is by far the worst but none are really perfect, other than my Tatula 150. That thing just plain works. I need to get my Alphas SV spooled up with some line, I really hope it will be the one to surprise me. 

[FrnkNsteen]

On 7/13/2022 at 5:40 PM, A kid from Canada said:

I have been disappointed with the reel quality out there as well. If I spin my Tatula 100 pretty quick you can feel/hear the loose tolerances. Especially when you lightly shake it. It's a 6:1 which should be smoother than a higher gear ratio I'm told but it feels like rubbing 2 pieces of paper together when I reel in. There is also significant play in the clutch when I pinch it and wiggle it around. I own a few Tatulas and the 100 is by far the worst but none are really perfect, other than my Tatula 150. That thing just plain works. I need to get my Alphas SV spooled up with some line, I really hope it will be the one to surprise me. 

I pretty much agree. I have my Tatula 100 on a Dobyns Kaden with a swim jig and its just not a very smooth or quiet reel. It gets maintained well along with all the rest, but it's just noisy. Maybe it's just a noisy one, but it has kept me from spending even more on a Tat80 or Tat SV70.

 

Get your Alphas SV going! I have been VERY happy with mine. I have it on an older Techna AV and pitch/cast light belly weighted craws with it. Love it! Smooth casting and extremely smooth reeling.

[QED]

Ordinarily, even after hedonic quality adjustments, I would espect reels at a particular price point to get better over time.  But these are not ordinary times, so given the current inflationary environment, I reserve judgement on the question.

[bulldog1935]

What you can't see in reels, especially reels from opposite price ends, is that manufacturing technology and technician skill are something you pay for.  I would say older reels were more technician skill, while newer reels are more manufacturing technology. 

 

Aluminum gears were unheard of for a reason when anodizing was only a few atom layers deep.  It costs more to broach stainless gears, and brass gears than aluminum.  Those newer fine-toothed gears, btw, share the contact load over a larger surface area with improved alignment, so they're probably going to last longer. 

 

CAD design and CAM manufacturing are also newer and get better.  If you look at Shimano's current worm-drive spinning reels, they've improved gears, spindles, pitch (equals cast distance), A/R roller bearing design - they're all the same design from Stradic to Stella, with cost cut in material choices and labor quality. 

[Big Rick]

On 7/12/2022 at 4:59 PM, J Francho said:

It's not pulling 1g on a skid pad. 

You're speaking my language! Any reel with that feature has my attention!!