Tatula Elite 100XS

[IneedAnewScreenName-98161861]

So I got this reel this a couple months ago. I have it as my frog reel, with 65lb braid. 

 

My question is why am I getting so many backlashes? I have 4 other Shimano baitcasters and I honestly rarely backlash on those but man do I ever get some good ones on this Diawa. Have I over spooled it with line? Does braid have memory? Brakes? Spool tension? 

 

I've had the same frog tied on now for weeks, weight stays the same. Wind I will honestly account to maybe a handful of them but it happens even on flat calm trips. 

 

My gut is telling me it's the line, as I've got some really nasty ones that I've been able to pick out but I feel like it's left a kink on the line. 

 

Not sure what's going on but it's frustrating enough for me to have to post this. My first Diawa reel, and I love everything about it but these backlashes are trying my patience!!

[Tatulatard]

Did you run the line under the bar in front of the t wing?

[bulldog1935]

Start here, and analyze your backlash - where it's occurring in your cast. 

If it's mid-cast, you need higher mag adjustment. 

If it's start-up, you need a smoother start, or a centrifugal-brake reel. 

When you have it solved, then it may be time for new line, but it's unlikely line is causing backlash. 

[mrpao]

I have a hand full of daiwa reels but a ton of shimano reels. I have a tatula elite also.

I do find the daiwa reels are a little more sensitive to being over spooled than shimano's. Try taking some line off to see if it helps.

Also daiwa reels seem to need more braking than shimano's. 

[Hammer 4]

6 minutes ago, mrpao said:

I have a hand full of daiwa reels but a ton of shimano reels. I have a tatula elite also.

I do find the daiwa reels are a little more sensitive to being over spooled than shimano's. Try taking some line off to see if it helps.

Also daiwa reels seem to need more braking than shimano's. 

I agree with the Diawa reels being more sensitive than the Shimano reels. In the past I only used Shimano reels, now I have all Diawa except 1 Shimano, and found it took more to get use to the Diawa breaking, but after some time I finally got the Diawa reels to where backlashes, stopped..

[LonnieP]

I bought my first Elite a few months ago.I’ve been using baitcasters for 30 year and that reel for me is very finicky to set up, especially after using SV’s the past few years. I finally got it dialed in to where it doesn’t backlash and I’m starting to like it.

[PhishLI]

7 hours ago, IneedAnewScreenName-98161861 said:

My gut is telling me it's the line, as I've got some really nasty ones that I've been able to pick out but I feel like it's left a kink on the line. 

 

Not sure what's going on but it's frustrating enough for me to have to post this. My first Diawa reel, and I love everything about it but these backlashes are trying my patience!!

 It's your casting stroke. You do not need to cast as hard as you think. I'd bet you're getting backlashes right after launch. If so you need to load deeper on the back cast and release a little sooner than you're accustomed to. Cast in a high arc at first with less energy so you have time to feel what's happening and why. Then adjust accordingly. Ultimately you'll find that you do not need to cast very hard to get max distance with that reel. If you do, you'll continue to get insta-lashes. There's no crime in adding a whisper of spool tension after you've zero'd out side to side play. Do this until you've figured things out, which should happen quickly, then back it off to neutral again. You will not hurt a thing in the meantime.

[LonnieP]

4 minutes ago, PhishLI said:

 It's your casting stroke. You do not need to cast as hard as you think. I'd bet you're getting backlashes right after launch. If so you need to load deeper on the back cast and release a little sooner than you're accustomed to. Cast in a high arc at first with less energy so you have time to feel what's happening and why. Then adjust accordingly. Ultimately you'll find that you do not need to cast very hard to get max distance with that reel. If you do, you'll continue to get insta-lashes. There's no crime in adding a whisper of spool tension after you've zero'd out side to side play. Do this until you've figured things out, which should happen quickly, then back it off to neutral again. You will not hurt a thing in the meantime.

I think that’s the problem I was having. I was casting too hard trying to bomb crankbaits. I didn’t cast as hard on Sunday and didn’t have any backlashes.

[PhishLI]

7 minutes ago, LonnieP said:

I think that’s the problem I was having. I was casting too hard trying to bomb crankbaits. I didn’t cast as hard on Sunday and didn’t have any backlashes.

Good, that's your first step. Once you're totally comfortable and unafraid of backlashing, you'll be able to play with where you load and unload. You can absolutely power cast with this reel in the equation, but your stroke needs to be modified if you're accustomed to centrifugal brakes. This is easier to figure out at first with a crisper rod. You can also figure it out with a moderate stick as long as you don't come close to overloading it with too heavy of a bait. This will simply complicate matters. Once you get it though, it'll become automatic.

[Columbia Craw]

Throw a change up instead of a fast ball.

[bulldog1935]

@Columbia Craw is pretty close to the truth there. 

Spinning tackle will teach you all kinds of bad habits, because cast-jerk is rewarded with distance in a spinning cast.  Baitcast is a whole lot more like swinging a bat or throwing a ball.  Baitcast is also much closer to fly rod.  Jerk with a fly rod is tailing loop.  Jerk with a baitcast is start-up backlash. 

[Tatulatard]

1 hour ago, bulldog1935 said:

@Columbia Craw is pretty close to the truth there. 

Spinning tackle will teach you all kinds of bad habits, because cast-jerk is rewarded with distance in a spinning cast.  Baitcast is a whole lot more like swinging a bat or throwing a ball.  Baitcast is also much closer to fly rod.  Jerk with a fly rod is tailing loop.  Jerk with a baitcast is start-up backlash. 

Are you saying we shouldn't have any wrist movement in the cast and swing with our wrists locked?  The only thing that "jerks" on the cast is the wrist action.  I don't understand what "jerk" is supposed to be.

[GReb]

Like stated above you are probably casting too hard. I have to be aware of this switching between my Shimano and Daiwa reels too. The Elite is a great reel. 

Like stated above you are probably casting too hard. I have to be aware of this switching between my Shimano and Daiwa reels too. The Elite is a great reel. 

[PhishLI]

20 hours ago, Tatulatard said:

Are you saying we shouldn't have any wrist movement in the cast and swing with our wrists locked?

I doubt he's saying that. That's just about impossible.

 

20 hours ago, Tatulatard said:

The only thing that "jerks" on the cast is the wrist action.

Not exactly. All I can do is explain it this way. If you get a quick backlash after release, but had been previously power casting without one using the same settings and bait, something happened. That something occurred between the load on the backswing and unload just a spilt second before the release. Call it what you like. Jerk. Whatever. I've described it in the past as "bounce" in the rod. I've learned to terminate the cast and not release when I feel this "bounce". Identify that, call it what you like, avoid generating it, and seeya later quick backlashes, especially with Mag Z.

 

Perhaps I'm describing this poorly, but thinking about it this way helped me overcome the problem. I learned Mag Z BCs fishing in the dark at night because I got my first one in November of that year. I've  analyzed what went wrong "before" it happened, then adjusted accordingly. I cast hard for distance more often than not, so I needed to figure this out, and I have. It's a "feel" issue due to quite subtle casting mechanics.

 

 

[IneedAnewScreenName-98161861]

Maybe I have put too much into my casts, I'll try a smoother motion. I also feel like upon retrieval it's not putting enough tension on the line so what ends up on the spool isn't tight enough that on my next cast I run into problems. But I'll start with my casting power and go from there.

[Tatulatard]

1 hour ago, PhishLI said:

I doubt he's saying that. That's just about impossible.

 

Not exactly. All I can do is explain it this way. If you get a quick backlash after release, but had been previously power casting without one using the same settings and bait, something happened. That something occurred between the load on the backswing and unload just a spilt second before the release. Call it what you like. Jerk. Whatever. I've described it in the past as "bounce" in the rod. I've learned to terminated the cast and not release when I feel this "bounce". Identify that, call it what you like, avoid generating it, and seeya later quick backlashes, especially with Mag Z.

 

Perhaps I'm describing this poorly, but thinking about it this way helped me overcome the problem. I learned a Mag Z BC fishing in the dark at night because I got my first one in November of that year. I've  analyzed what went wrong "before" it happened, then adjusted accordingly. I cast hard for distance more often than not, so I needed to figure this out, and I have. It's a "feel" issue due to quite subtle casting mechanics.

 

 

Interesting.  I cast my magZ and centrifugal reels the same since magZ uses centrifugal brakes anyways.  The centrifugal brake that extends the brake rotor is what makes it magZ over magforce.  I really only alter my casting stroke with regular mag brakes because if I power cast I have to increase the brakes which then make them seem choked off at the end so I find I do better with less brakes and a smooth slow cast with them.  With my magZ its the same as my centrifugals.  Over the shoulder and let it rip.  This this is why I think the OP needs to check that they haven't ran the line under the bar on the tatula because it really shouldn't be any different from his shimanos in casting.  My tatula elite isn't.

[PhishLI]

15 hours ago, Tatulatard said:

magZ uses centrifugal brakes anyway

Tat,

The only thing centrifugal about Mag Z is the force that projects the inductor into the magnetic gap. There isn't friction in the equation like VBS, SVS, ACB, etc. You can force an insta-lash with typical centrifugally braked reels on low settings as well. A similar condition exists on lower settings or less brake blocks engaged here. Mag Z, and Magforce, depends on rotation speed to generate the oppositional force you understand as braking. There is a brief moment at the beginning of the cast where this force hasn’t started, and why, on lower brake settings, an insta-lash is quite possible with Mag Z, especially if you haven't figured out your stroke. Apparently you have with either Mag Z or typical centrifugal reels on lower settings. The OP needs to figure this out for himself. I'm trying to make this idea somewhat tangible beyond simply saying to not cast as hard.

[Columbia Craw]

There is a fundamental principle to bait casting reels.  The lure and its speed and weight must pull the line as fast as the line exits off the rotating spool.  If your initial casting motion generates spool speed that the lure can’t keep up with that line coming off a rotating spool has to go somewhere.  It’s a balance thing.  Rename cast control dial or setting to rate of spool speed regulator. Hook you buddy’s coat or a bush and will experience the the extreme of the spool speed to lure weight principal.?

[T-Billy]

2 hours ago, IneedAnewScreenName-98161861 said:

Maybe I have put too much into my casts, I'll try a smoother motion. I also feel like upon retrieval it's not putting enough tension on the line so what ends up on the spool isn't tight enough that on my next cast I run into problems. But I'll start with my casting power and go from there.

This will take you a long way with mag braking. Mag brakes like a nice smooth swing and follow through. No sudden start, no sudden stop. Finish the casting stroke smoothly straight out in front of you. Ya can't just grip it and rip it. Centrifugal is much more forgiving in that aspect. 

 

[txchaser]

5 hours ago, T-Billy said:

Mag brakes like a nice smooth swing and follow through. No sudden start, no sudden stop

8 hours ago, IneedAnewScreenName-98161861 said:

I'll try a smoother motion.

If I bring the rod to a dead stop vs following through I'm almost guaranteed a backlash on any thing from a fuego to a steez. You can cast easy or hard, but it has to be smooth. 

[VolFan]

Smooth is fast, and on the edge of out of control. If you’ve casted a fly rod correctly, you’ll understand that there’s a stroke and timing involved with the weight and action of the rod and the type of line you’re using. It’s similar with a baitcaster. Start smooth and close and work out from there

[PhishLI]

6 hours ago, txchaser said:

You can cast easy or hard, but it has to be smooth. 

Correctamundo

[Big Rick]

On 7/5/2022 at 12:40 PM, Tatulatard said:

Did you run the line under the bar in front of the t wing?

@IneedAnewScreenName-98161861, since you didn't reply to this question I'm posting it again. This is definitely a thing as I have done it before and it will absolutely kill your ability to cast. Since the bar is basically hidden it's very easy to run your line UNDER this bar. It should be OVER it. 

[IneedAnewScreenName-98161861]

On 7/7/2022 at 12:25 PM, Big Rick said:

@IneedAnewScreenName-98161861, since you didn't reply to this question I'm posting it again. This is definitely a thing as I have done it before and it will absolutely kill your ability to cast. Since the bar is basically hidden it's very easy to run your line UNDER this bar. It should be OVER it. 

Sorry, I'm still trying to understand a few replies in this thread but I'm not a physics major so I got lost!

 

Anyways to your question I double checked and the line does go OVER the bar so sounds like it's setup properly!

 

To others who have suggested it's my casting style, I think you nailed it on the head. I went out yesterday and boy was it windy too. I was casting maybe not into the wind but also definitely not with the wind at all and only had one backlash happen and that was because I did what you all said not too do. I tried to reach a specific pocket that was basically at the end of my cast range and with the wind I really tried to huck the sucker and that's when I got the backlash. Other then that I had no troubles cause I really focused on a consistent, smooth cast and finished pointing the rod at my intended target. When I did this, it was ultra smooth casting and I truly realized how easily and far this reel casts with such little force. It was quite eye opening to be honest. If only it had a slightly bigger spool!

[Tatulatard]

There is nothing wrong with chucking it harder to get more distance.  Just bring the brakes up a bit so you don't blow up the spool. The reel has a non-linear braking profile unlike other magnetic reels so turning the brakes up won't choke it off as bad at the end as a regular magnetic reel.  Still I find that the elite long cast is more of an effortless caster than a real distance caster.  I've turned the brakes up and casted harder but it really doesn't do much better than a lower brake setting and a smoother cast.