Help for Vanford Series Chose

[Farooq23]

Hello ladies and gentleman's!

I have a big and important question, about a Vanford series..
Im going to buy Shimano 20 Zodias 264UL-2 - 193cm 2-7g, ill use the rod in Freshwater, and maybe sometimes in Saltwater(this will be very rare, maybe once a year), im gonna use the rod for mullet, pike, perch and etc fishy, sorry but im not from USA, im in middle Europe, hope this is not a issue.
So basicaly im looking for tips and suggestion on which Vanford should i pick, which will match perfect with the Zodias rod, which reel will match perfect with the weight of the rod+vanford reel.

I have options between those series:
Vanford 1000F (2020)
Vanford 2500F (2021)
Vanford 2500 HG F (2020)
Vanford C 3000 F

those are the 4 options that i have to order in my country, so im really looking for a help ASAP, because i want to order soon.
really thanks for the help <3

[newapti5]

53 minutes ago, Farooq23 said:

im gonna use the rod for mullet, pike, perch and etc

 

What line are you planning to use? Because for fluoro and mono, bigger spool means less line memory issue. For braid, it doesn't matter much.  If you plan on use it for pikes, I'd suggest at least a 2500 size. Actually, for your description of planned usage, I'd choose a 2500/3000 size Stradic FL.  It's the same reel with a stronger frame, but a little heavier. 

[bulldog1935]

Vanford 1000F would be my choice for that UL rod. 

I could identify it in JDM, but one of the 2500 reels should also be the small frame with a larger diameter spool - you can identify it because it weighs 160 g. 

 

I fish JDM Vanquish C2000S on a very similar rod, which is the same reel as USM 1000 size Shimano, but a shallower braid spool and lower gearing.  I also have JDM Stradic C2000SHG, which is the exact same reel as USM Stradic 1000FL (and cost $60 less). 

JDM 1000 size, btw, is a slightly smaller diameter spool (again, USM 1000 size is a JDM 2000 size spool)

 

I would reserve the 175+g medium-bodied Shimano for ML and heavier rods (and then, I'd go to JDM C3000SHG to get the larger diameter shallow braid spool in the medium body). 

I have my C3000SHG matched with a JDM 7'3" salt "ML" that's rated 7-24 g - to me, that's closer to MH.   

The medium-body reels offer carbontex drag,

 

The small body reels only offer fiber drag, but I catch big seatrout, respectable snook and drum on mine. 

 

If it helps, here's the chart with weights and capacities on the JDM Vanford

https://www.jpfishingtacklenews.com/shimano-20-vanford/

If suspect your Vanford 1000F is the same as JDM C2000SHG. 

[JustJames]

On your only 4 models
Vanford 1000 would match UL fishing better but 2500 size is not really a lot bigger nor heavier but will be more versatile both line size and line capacity. I see the perch in your area get pretty big 1-2kg by average? I think 2500 would be better suit. Now about gear ration, I’m not sure how you fish but the 2500 HG (6.3) version got about 35 IPT while 2500 (5.2) got about 29-30 IPT. I prefer slower gear ratio for UL and small swimbait type. It is easier to speed up than slow down for me. My Vanford is C2000S. I had to order from Japan becuz here in US doesn’t have this version. My reason is bigger spool than 1000 but same frame for line management, slower gear ration 5.2 and shallower spool since I don’t need line capacity fishing with 4-8lb braid line.

[WRB]

Don’t know about UL in Europe?

Shimano Vanford reel stem bend is closer to the mounting foot then other models that may impact how you hold the rod handle.

The 1000 size reel would be a better size for UL rods, in fact a 750 Size may be appropriate if Vanford offered it.

European Pike are 2x larger then USA or Canadian Pike, why UL rod?

Tom

 

[QED]

4 hours ago, Farooq23 said:

[stuff deleted]
I have options between those series:
Vanford 1000F (2020)
Vanford 2500F (2021)
Vanford 2500 HG F (2020)
Vanford C 3000 F

those are the 4 options that i have to order in my country, so im really looking for a help ASAP, because i want to order soon.
really thanks for the help ❤️

 

So in your country the 500F and 2000HGF are NOT available? In the US market, the 2000HGF weighs about the same as a 1000F but has higher line capacity and higher retrieve per crank so if that were an option I'd recommend that.  Otherwise, of the options presented, I'd go with the 1000F in the present context.

 

I have several of the 500Fs, a 1000F, and a 2000HGF and they all work fine.  The 500Fs work very well with Tennessee handled ultralight rods but in your application a 1000 or 2000 might work better.

 

Info on US market Vanfords:

https://fish.shimano.com/content/fish/northamerica/us/en/homepage/Shimano_Product_Page.P-VANFORD_F.html

[bulldog1935]

Photos below borrowed from a friend on FFR, who took his down first thing. 

 

The USM-only Vanford 500F is a Vanford in name only.  It's not a long-stroke worm-drive reel based on the '18 Stella, as are the '19 Stradic, '20 Vanford, '21 Twin Power, '19 Vanquish, etc. 

(In the worm-drive series, Vanford is a new name for the next Stradic CI4+)

 

Rather, the 500F is the JDM '16 Soare CI4+ locomotive drive, given Vanford markings. 

 

[QED]

7 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

[stuff deleted]

Rather, it's the JDM '16 Soare CI4+ locomotive drive, given Vanquish markings. 

 

That sounds about right.  I have a Shimano Soare CI4+ 500S and, other than cosmetics, it is pretty much the same as a US Vanford 500F.  BTW, the 500 series Vanford/Soare still have the anti-reverse switch (which I don't use, but it is an interesting factoid.)

[Farooq23]

Thanks all for the possitive answers and help!
So as i see every one recommend me, 1000F / 2500HG F / 2500F, ill use it mainly for UL fishing with the Shimano Zodias or Savage Gear SG2 1-5g UL, for those fish - mullet, pike, perch, maybe for pike the rods wont be good enough if it come to 1-2+kg pike, but i have as well Daiwa Whisker 10-40g,
so basicaly ill use the reel for all those 3 rods, so im looking for any of those Vanfords choses, to suit the rods, specialy the Zodias and SG2
The line im about to use, will be Owner Kizuna X8 135м - Chartreuse 0.6PE.
My main question will be, should i go for 1000F or to go safe and chose 2500HG F?

 

[JustJames]

0.6PE is about what 6-10lb braid line, you are gonna need a lot of backing for standard spool of 2500. No shallow spool version that you can order from around or even 2000 size? I look at Shimano Euro and they do have all models?

[bulldog1935]

12 hours ago, Farooq23 said:

Thanks all for the possitive answers and help!
So as i see every one recommend me, 1000F / 2500HG F / 2500F, ill use it mainly for UL fishing with the Shimano Zodias or Savage Gear SG2 1-5g UL, for those fish - mullet, pike, perch, maybe for pike the rods wont be good enough if it come to 1-2+kg pike, but i have as well Daiwa Whisker 10-40g,
so basicaly ill use the reel for all those 3 rods, so im looking for any of those Vanfords choses, to suit the rods, specialy the Zodias and SG2
The line im about to use, will be Owner Kizuna X8 135м - Chartreuse 0.6PE.
My main question will be, should i go for 1000F or to go safe and chose 2500HG F?

 

 

can't go wrong with the 1000F and braid. 

@Farooq23  This Means Something.

You don't want the medium-body reel, and you don't want the increased capacity of either 2500.  I hope this thing is on. 

this is PE #0.6, and backed halfway with slightly heavier braid. 

It's a workhorse reel for me - 1.5 kg drag is no problem. 

 

If you need to stack lines, here's the line stacking calculator

[Farooq23]

1 hour ago, Bass_Fishing_SoCal said:

0.6PE is about what 6-10lb braid line, you are gonna need a lot of backing for standard spool of 2500. No shallow spool version that you can order from around or even 2000 size? I look at Shimano Euro and they do have all models?

They dont deliver sadly to my country.. in the site i look at the moment from where there is best price at all, the options that have are those,

[Farooq23]

Yes, im thinking between 1000F or 2500 versions F or HG F
Still cant decide, i dont know - i dont want to be wrong..

[Farooq23]

@bulldog1935 i think you are very right, i might go for the 1000F version, but im thinking can i able to use it on other rods like for Pike special only, (Daiwa Whisker 10-40G)?

[bulldog1935]

It would not be a choice reel for casting 10 to 40 g (Perfect for 2 to 7 or 20) - 10-40 g is exactly where my 3000MHG fits. 

You won't find one reel that matches both rods. 

 

 

If you want something built to last with good line management and cost-effective, put a Tica 2500 or 3000 on the big rod.  It won't be Shimano slick, but I fished a little Cetus in salt XUL for 8 years before my Shimano upgrade.  I loan these reels to my friends. 

 

 

@Farooq23 3rd choice. 

Buy a spare spool for a C2500SHG (Not 2500S or 2500SHG) and use it for PE#1 braid on the same small reel body and big rod.  You'll be limited to 2 kg drag, but most will never need that much. 

Note the pitch (line height) difference between the small body spool and medium body spool. 

Capacity is the same, 120 m PE#1. 

 

Your 1000, btw, is the C2000S, capacity is 150 m PE#0.6

[Farooq23]

30 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

It would not be a choice reel for casting 10 to 40 g (Perfect for 2 to 7 or 20) - 10-40 g is exactly where my 3000MHG fits. 

You won't find one reel that matches both rods. 

 

 

If you want something built to last with good line management and cost-effective, put a Tica 2500 or 3000 on the big rod.  It won't be Shimano slick, but I fished a little Cetus in salt XUL for 8 years before my Shimano upgrade.  I loan these reels to my friends. 

 

 

@Farooq23 3rd choice. 

Buy a spare spool for a C2500SHG (Not 2500S or 2500SHG) and use it for PE#1 braid on the same small reel body and big rod.  You'll be limited to 2 kg drag, but most will never need that much. 

Note the pitch (line height) difference between the small body spool and medium body spool. 

Capacity is the same, 120 m PE#1. 

Very thanks for the help again!
I think ill use the Vanford only and only for Shimano Zodias and Savage Gear SG2, if i want other reel for the 10-40G rod, ill stick to other reel, but for now my main focus is to pick a Vanford series from any of those ones that i mentioned, like the rivers here in my country are not so big, 50-60M from coast to coast, i think 120-150M line will be enough, but i dont know really for which Reel to go..

[redmeansdistortion]

13 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

Photos below borrowed from a friend on FFR, who took his down first thing. 

 

The USM-only Vanford 500F is a Vanford in name only.  It's not a long-stroke worm-drive reel based on the '18 Stella, as are the '19 Stradic, '20 Vanford, '21 Twin Power, '19 Vanquish, etc. 

(In the worm-drive series, Vanford is a new name for the next Stradic CI4+)

 

Rather, the 500F is the JDM '16 Soare CI4+ locomotive drive, given Vanford markings. 

 

I think they do that for most of their 500 sized reels.  The larger Soare models are worm drive like the Vanford and Stella as well.

[Farooq23]

I think at all, ill go for 2500F or 2500HG F version, still cant decide tho

[The Bassman]

A 2500 is a total mismatch for an ultralight rod. 1000 would be perfect. I have a JDM 6'4" light and my 1000 is perfect. 

[JustJames]

Most my spinning reel is 5.2 gear ratio. For me 30 IPT is enough for my regular fishing. Most of my baitcasters with HG rating are about the same IPT.

Once you decide the speed, you might as well buy spare spool (shallow version) from Japan for using with different line type or fishing type.(cost around 1/3 of the whole reel).

 

[Farooq23]

Its kinda a big decision for me what to chose, i really cannot make the chose, should i go for 1000 or 2500, since im gonna fish mullet/perch's 98% of the time, on the Zodias 2-7G UL and SG2 1-5G UL.
1000 version is a bit slow and perfect i guess for mullet and perch's. I see 99% of the people who helped me say to go for 1000F version, but the rivers that we have in Bulgaria are a bit small, i mean not so small, but not like in America..

[JustJames]

On 6/23/2022 at 1:13 PM, The Bassman said:

A 2500 is a total mismatch for an ultralight rod. 1000 would be perfect. I have a JDM 6'4" light and my 1000 is perfect. 

I will respectfully disagree with you on this case, and you know you still my good friend, right? 
The old day UL spinning reel VS full size spinning reel were totally different in weight and size and mostly they were compare 500 VS 2500. With super light weight UL rod the reel to have good balance should be as light as possible.

Nowadays 1000 reel considered as UL spinning and the difference between 1000 VS 2500 are not very much at all especially with carbon composite frame like Vanford, Tatula Ballistic. My Shimano 750 graphite frame is about the same weight as 2500 Vanford.

His Zodias 2-7G is really nothing I would call Totally UL. This is Speedstyle UL 1/64-3/16 with C2500

 

 

[QED]

31 minutes ago, Farooq23 said:

Its kinda a big decision for me what to chose, i really cannot make the chose, should i go for 1000 or 2500, since im gonna fish mullet/perch's 98% of the time, on the Zodias 2-7G UL and SG2 1-5G UL.
1000 version is a bit slow and perfect i guess for mullet and perch's. I see 99% of the people who helped me say to go for 1000F version, but the rivers that we have in Bulgaria are a bit small, i mean not so small, but not like in America..

 

In the US, we are able purchase grey market goods.  Is that not the case in your part of the world?  Because a Shimano Vanford C2000HGF seems like it might be perfect for your use case and works well with UL through ML rods.

[bulldog1935]

The 1000 reel offered to him is equivalent to a JDM C2000S. 

Shimano is not going to offer a different spool that doesn't exist in their JDM line, with the exception of the USM 500 reel, which is also in his market (somewhere he hasn't mentioned). 

This should be all settled based on the proper capacity for the PE#0.6 braid. 

This is the smallest Vanford offered in Japan domestic market.

 

Here's my JDM C2000S Vanquish.  The 1000 Vanford he's offered is the economy version of this Japan benchmade reel, which is the single-best finesse spinning reel ever made.  I fish this reel exclusively in salt, and it's landed doubles with seatrout, snook and redfish. 

 

 

Do you think it's an accident the Japanese keep all the really good low geared reels at home and send all the high-geared reels to the USA (rhetorical). 

With high-geared reels, you Need a long handle.  With low-geared reels, you need a short handle.  When you tune the handle length with the gearing, the gearing difference isn't really significant.  It's easier to turn a short handle fast, and the low gears deliver more torque to turn against pull.

 

The medium-body reel is do-able with an extra 80-m of heavier braid backing, but the medium body reel is one ounce heavier.  I would call this the wrong reel all around, especially when the right reel for the rod is right in front of you. 

Either 2500 would be trading finesse feel for a carbontex drag washer. 

Finesse feel should be the reason for wanting Vanford over Stradic; otherwise, the Stradic forged alloy frame is a better choice. 

 

10 g to 40 g isn't an ML rod, it's a Heavy rod. (3/8 to 1-1/2 oz), or at the very least an MH

Trying to fit one reel to both rods would be the wrong reel for both rods. 

[The Bassman]

4 hours ago, Bass_Fishing_SoCal said:

I will respectfully disagree with you on this case, and you know you still my good friend, right? 
The old day UL spinning reel VS full size spinning reel were totally different in weight and size and mostly they were compare 500 VS 2500. With super light weight UL rod the reel to have good balance should be as light as possible.

Nowadays 1000 reel considered as UL spinning and the difference between 1000 VS 2500 are not very much at all especially with carbon composite frame like Vanford, Tatula Ballistic. My Shimano 750 graphite frame is about the same weight as 2500 Vanford.

His Zodias 2-7G is really nothing I would call Totally UL. This is Speedstyle UL 1/64-3/16 with 2500C

 

Well, as long as you put it that way I guess we can still be friends.