Gut Hooking - Reaction Time or Rigging?

[garroyo130]

Went out this morning and decided to throw the big worms. First cast, first fish ... good except it was gut hooked. Got me to thinking if reaction time or rigging has more to do with gut hooking fish. Ive noticed that whenever I rig "In Pursuit of Giant Bass" style I typically gut hook fish much much more than when I use a standard offset round bend hook. I don't think my reaction speed is any different, but I think the "In Pursuit of Giant Bass" rigging method puts the hook point closer to the middle of the worm which I imagine is where the worm bends at when a bass slurps it in. Anyone have a similar experience or have any suggestions to help decrease gut hooking? 

[IcatchDinks]

I've only ever gut hooked one fish, and it wasn't even me, it was my wife. In her case it was all due to reaction time. She was so determined to make sure the fish had the worm in it's mouth that it had already gotten it down its gullet by the time she set the hook.  I just hope we didn't kill him. 

[softwateronly]

21 minutes ago, garroyo130 said:

Went out this morning and decided to throw the big worms. First cast, first fish ... good except it was gut hooked. Got me to thinking if reaction time or rigging has more to do with gut hooking fish. Ive noticed that whenever I rig "In Pursuit of Giant Bass" style I typically gut hook fish much much more than when I use a standard offset round bend hook. I don't think my reaction speed is any different, but I think the "In Pursuit of Giant Bass" rigging method puts the hook point closer to the middle of the worm which I imagine is where the worm bends at when a bass slurps it in. Anyone have a similar experience or have any suggestions to help decrease gut hooking? 

 

First off, I don't know.  But I've thrown a 7" speed worm on a owner oversized worm hook in 7/0 very often, the point is way back there, and I haven't gut hooked in a few years. I swim the worm, hop the worm, and soak/shake the worm.  My gear has gotten better in sensitivity and I stopped fishing weightless or almost weightless cross wind. The wind might be the biggest factor for me personally.  So my guess is that it might be more related to feel rather than rigging.

 

scott

[Deleted account]

47 minutes ago, garroyo130 said:

Gut Hooking - Reaction Time or Rigging?

Both.

[OkobojiEagle]

I don't have a clue how "In Pursuit of Giant Bass" rigging differs from Texas rigging...

 

oe

[garroyo130]

4 minutes ago, OkobojiEagle said:

I don't have a clue how "In Pursuit of Giant Bass" rigging differs from Texas rigging...

 

oe

 

The texas rig keeps the eye of the hook near the head of the bait the giant bass method has you slide the hook down until the point enters back into the bait through the egg sack. On 10" worms its a significant difference in terms of hook placement with a 2/0 hook ... at least for me. The worms are also fished almost weightless with only a split shot or two.

[Happybeerbuzz]

Reaction time is the greater culprit in my experience.  One of my fishing partners fishes plastics exclusively by feel, very little line watching.  I am the opposite.  He gut hooks significantly more than I do.  With that said, rigging makes a difference too.  I feel like round bend hooks gets them in the gut a little more than EWG, both in frequency and severity.  

[WRB]

2 hours ago, garroyo130 said:

Went out this morning and decided to throw the big worms. First cast, first fish ... good except it was gut hooked. Got me to thinking if reaction time or rigging has more to do with gut hooking fish. Ive noticed that whenever I rig "In Pursuit of Giant Bass" style I typically gut hook fish much much more than when I use a standard offset round bend hook. I don't think my reaction speed is any different, but I think the "In Pursuit of Giant Bass" rigging method puts the hook point closer to the middle of the worm which I imagine is where the worm bends at when a bass slurps it in. Anyone have a similar experience or have any suggestions to help decrease gut hooking? 

Are using live night crawlers?

Tom

[islandbass]

34 minutes ago, Happybeerbuzz said:

Reaction time is the greater culprit in my experience.  One of my fishing partners fishes plastics exclusively by feel, very little line watching.  I am the opposite.  He gut hooks significantly more than I do.  With that said, rigging makes a difference too.  I feel like round bend hooks gets them in the gut a little more than EWG, both in frequency and severity.  

I was the opposite when I first really started focusing on senkos and like baits. I started with EWGs and gut hooked 2 in a row as a newbie. 
 

I believe it was my lack of experience in knowing what I will call the “range of take”. The more violent the take the easier and faster to discern and react. The more subtle, the more difficult and consequently, the chance for a gut hook is far higher. 
 

Another thing I’ve noted anecdotally is slack in line. The more slack I had, I won’t really feel the take but I might see the line move and that has to be the cue to act. Delay here and a gut hook possibility increases. A slack line does not transmit feedback as a line with more tension does.
 

Experience will help those who have gained it and are willing to apply it. Although I have since switched to straight shank non offset hooks primarily, the hook typed is now less of a factor for a gut hooked fish for me. 
 

I don’t think we can completely eliminate the possibility of encountering a gut hook, but being focused, attentive, being mindful of how much slack you have, imho, can help to minimize the gut hook. 

[garroyo130]

26 minutes ago, WRB said:

Are using live night crawlers?

Tom

 

No, I am using bonzai and jackall hand pours. I will say they are super soft and seem to tear much faster than the plastic worms i typically use. 

[Jig Man]

It probably is some of both.  My regular fishing partner gut hooks several times and we are using the same line, jigs, and baits.  I’ve noticed that he fishes a lot with his reel while I fish with my rod.  Other than that my equipment is superior to his.  I think I can feel way better than he can.

[Basser2021]

3 hours ago, Deleted account said:

Both.

 

[dodgeguy]

2 hours ago, garroyo130 said:

 

The texas rig keeps the eye of the hook near the head of the bait the giant bass method has you slide the hook down until the point enters back into the bait through the egg sack. On 10" worms its a significant difference in terms of hook placement with a 2/0 hook ... at least for me. The worms are also fished almost weightless with only a split shot or two.

Why would you use a 2/0 hook on a ten inch worm ? 5/0 Ewg superline worm hook minimum.

[Jrob78]

I can't help you with why it's happening but if anyone finds it happening a lot you can always smash down the barb and keep needle nose pliers close by. Learn the "through the gill" method and hopefully you can release some of those fish back relatively unharmed. 

[ironbjorn]

It can be a lot harder to detect the bites of bigger bass. 

[WRB]

The OP is stitching worms using Bill Murphy’s 2/0 #181 bait holder hook threaded though the worm and skin hook about 1/3 back of the nose end. Stitching is a split shot technique that isn’t for everyone and require time between strike detection and hook sets. The trick is keeping some tension on the line while reeling a lot of slack line, you need 3 hands!

We didn’t have good circle hooks back in stitching era. Today use a circle hook, Owner Mutu Light size 2/0 for example, no more gut hooking.

It’s better to cut the line when the hook is swallowed deep out of site.

Tom 

PS, Bonzai worms are out of business for several years now and not familiar with Jackall hand pours? Upton’s Customs* has 9” to 13” hand pours and few others from Last Chance Tackle.

* call Josh to find his worms.

[Boomstick]

The way you rig it definitely matters. If the hook is near the top of the bait, the fish swallows the bait and you get it in the mouth. If it’s near the tail you are more likely to catch the fish on the side or throat hook it which gives you less reaction time.

 

For presentations you can use a circle hook or something similar you will get the fish in the side of the mouth pretty consistently. I use Owner Mosquito hooks for wacky rigs for this reason over straight shank hooks.

[Team9nine]

Fun experiment - keep everything the same, except skin hook in/near the head of worm like more traditional TR. See if either you hook up less, or decrease gut hooking. It will give you the answer one way or the other. 

[TOXIC]

On 6/17/2022 at 9:53 AM, Deleted account said:

Both.

Exactly.  When guiding, I stepped up to a 4.0 EWG hook from a 3.0 EWG hook because my clients were gut hooking too many fish.  The 2 reasons that they were gut hooking them was they were uneducated and had a slow reaction time, I actually had to tell them to set the hook in some cases and the 3.0 ewg hook also went further in the basses mouth before making the thump that tells you to set the hook.  

[Bird]

Never heard of that presentation.

I know from experience that wind + weightless can increase the risk of deep hook, comphromises sensitivity.

 

Hope you get it resolved.

[RDB]

As @WRB said, you are talking about stitching which is different than a traditional t-rig technique.  Bill suggested using a #1 or 1/0 hook skin hooked through the side of a 4-8” straight tail worm.  He also suggested that when you feel a bite, don’t set the hook but lower the rod tip and keep the excess line in your fingers while watching the line.  If it’s moving quickly, reel the slack and set.  If it’s not, apply slight pressure to see if the bass will take the bait better.  IMO, it’s not surprising that you might gut hook a few more fish but it’s not because the eye is 1/4” more buried v a t-rig.  It’s the same reason many wacky riggers have higher numbers of gut hooked fish.  With both techniques, the bass feels little resistance and will often hold for longer times and some anglers are slow to set.  

[WRB]

In Pursuit if Giant Bass, Bill Murphy, pages 134-135, photos and text describing using 2/0 #181 hook for stitching. 

I am not positive who in the Pieces bass club started stitching worms 1st. I know my stitching technique was using a fly line alternating retrieve index finger over pinky finger to move the line and dropping a hand full of line into a bucket of water when in a boat or dropping the line on the water when wading. Taking the slack line about every 15’ to 20’.

We were targeting DD size bass with 10” De Long Otay Special dark brown with black vain worms in 1969 to 1973.

We used the same retrieving for live crawdads nose hooked, except the hook was a Sealy small diameter wire squid hook, the 181 was heavy wire hook that broke the craws nose.

Back in those days it was standard practice to let the bass take several feet of line before hook setting.

Gut hooking was rare,  usually hooked in the rough of the mouth.

Tom

PS, I am a original Pieces “Silver Eagle” member.

 

 

 

70’s

[papajoe222]

On 6/17/2022 at 12:38 PM, dodgeguy said:

Why would you use a 2/0 hook on a ten inch worm ? 5/0 Ewg superline worm hook minimum.

I use 3/0 light wire hooks on 10in. worms all the time. I'll move up to a 4/0 if the worm is thicker bodied. A 5/0 superline is, IMO, over kill for all but heavy cover situations. 

With the light weight that you're employing, I would lean more toward it being strike detection, unless you're using the same hook/weight setup for standard T-ring, then 

[RDB]

9 hours ago, WRB said:

In Pursuit if Giant Bass, Bill Murphy, pages 134-135, photos and text describing using 2/0 #181 hook for stitching. 

 

[garroyo130]

16 hours ago, Bird said:

Never heard of that presentation.

I know from experience that wind + weightless can increase the risk of deep hook, comphromises sensitivity.

 

Hope you get it resolved.

 

I think you're right. I think its a combination of light weight + depth. I'm fishing off a dock but am casting to water that is about 14 - 16' deep using braid to copoly. My mistake is probably letting the line go slack for any amount of time which gives bass an opportunity to take it deep.