The Best Taper for Jerkbait when using Braid

[JustinKoh]

Hi there,

For jerkbait (say megabass vision oneten or equivalent) with 30lb braid line (+ 20lb mono leader),
which do you like fast taper or moderate taper?
Which is ideal theoretically/logically??

I assume I use medium power (1/4-3/4oz) casting rod.

I'm Japanese and some Japanese anglers recommend rods with
moderate or moderate fast taper for jerkbaits,
but in US it seems people tend to use fast or even extra fast taper rods for jerkbaits.

I've been confused with this topic so I'd appreciate it if you guys make the point clearer about this.
So far my opinion is that moderate sounds better if I use braid,
because the line can't absorb the impact of jerking motion at all,
and I will need to jerk so carefully/softly not to jerk too strong.

FYI, I don't have both rods(M power + Fast taper, M power + Moderate taper) so I can't try both scenarios...

Thanks in advance.

[softwateronly]

Welcome to BR!! 

 

I fish braid to leader for jerks, and like a mod/fast for taper, but also have a fast that works pretty well.  Although, I will say don't be afraid to hit those snaps pretty hard, with a touch of slack in the line.  I think the magic of jerkbaits is nothing to 100 in an instant. Bass can't resist.

 

scott

[Deephaven]

XF.  I use 20lb braid and if I can get away with it no leader, but I would HATE fishing a jerk on a moderate rod.  Won't work at all for how I work the bait.  The SC 6'8 MXF is a brilliant blank for jerks.

[RDB]

I historically have used a medium fast rod but recently picked up a JDM Oneten Stick which is more regular and I love it.  I use 12lb fluoro but will drop down if I need a little more depth.  Personally, I think braid or mono is a poor choice for jerkbaits, just like fluoro is a poor choice for topwater.  I want a line that sinks.

 

Edit:  just curious…why would you want to use 30lb braid to 20lb mono with a 110 (or any jerkbait for that matter)?  IMO it’s WAY overkill and if you ever needed the strength of that line, you have already bent out the hooks or ripped the bait from the fishes mouth.  Add to that potential surges at the boat and I think you are greatly increasing your odds of losing fish.

[ironbjorn]

Is your 110 diving a whole 8 inches with that 20lb mono? Good Lord. You can bump that down to no more than 12lb.

[Boomstick]

12 hours ago, Deephaven said:

XF.  I use 20lb braid and if I can get away with it no leader, but I would HATE fishing a jerk on a moderate rod.  Won't work at all for how I work the bait.  The SC 6'8 MXF is a brilliant blank for jerks.

I use the same rod for jerks with mono. This is a great rod, because it has a short tip which helps you can feel a bite on a jerk but runs on the lighter side so the bend does not stop with the tip.

[Choporoz]

MF; 20#braid with fluoro leader,  10 or 12....whichever is handy when I am re-tying

[softwateronly]

3 of the more current "famous" baitcasting jerkbait rods are labeled completely differently, the SC 6'8MXF, MB 6'5 M oneten stick / slow, and the Expride 6'10M M/F.  I only have experience with the expride, and what I think makes it good is a soft tip that doesn't immediately shut off but instead has some gradual give till the backbone.  The tip seems to help impart the desired action while the delayed shut off helps with hookup/landing.  It's a really specific rod choice that seems difficult to quantify and others or your own in hand experience is invaluable in making your choice in my opinion.

 

scott 

[Tatulatard]

14 hours ago, ironbjorn said:

Is your 110 diving a whole 8 inches with that 20lb mono? Good Lord. You can bump that down to no more than 12lb.

I was thinking the same thing unless it's to prevent bite offs. 

[JustinKoh]

@softwateronly  Do you think most jerkbaits beautifully jump even if you hit snaps so hard? As far as I experience, Jackall rerange 110, Berkley Stunna, and EverGreen FA jerkbait show beautiful side-to-side jump even if I hit snaps hard.
But other many jerkbaits(eg. Lucky Craft Pointer 100, Megabass Vision 110, Nishine Erie 115SD, EverGreen SideStep) seem to have a strictly limited acceptable hitting strength. If I hit too hard (I always make a line slack after hitting), it jumps to weird direction, and mostly pick up lines by hooks.
I just guessed that choosing proper taper may relax the acceptable range...

 

@Deephaven Braid without leader + XF taper sounds very stiff. Do you hit snaps very softly (but still quick motion)? Or as hard as possible?

@RDB Reason why I use 30lb braid to 20lb mono...
1) Not so often I target deep range, since I majorly fish in shallow water area (I fish from bank)
-> I prefer floating line over sinking line
2) My field has so so heavy covers
-> I prefer thicker line
3) I don't like memory of fluoro and mono lines. It costs and it's so awkward to work on fishing tackle at home in front of my kids and my wife. Less chances of replacing line is justice!
-> I go with braid
4) I don't like a line break. If snagged, I may take it back by bending hooks.
-> I prefer thicker line (and leader).
5) I cast a long distance and twitch there. Less stretch is preferable for me.
-> Braid

@ironbjorn You mean 8ft? No it doesn't dive 8ft. Actually I prefer 110 diving shallower... I fish from bank, my field is mostly very shallow and 2-5 ft is enough diving range in my case:)

[JustinKoh]

@Boomstick Don't you have any issues of stretching mono, especially when you do jerk in long distance?

@Choporoz So many people use 10-14 fluoro leader... IMO thicker line is one less thing to worry about, like a line break. Do you use 10 or 12 because thicker line affects jerkbait's action?

@softwateronly Thank you for multiple comments! Yes I much appreciated all of you guys helping me making decision! And M/F sounds well balanced and I'll try to look for 6' - 6'6" M M/F rod:)

[Fat Ika]

So many opinions and experiences with jerkbait setups. Spent 15 years using 7-7'2' med fast casting rods with mostly straight 8-12# flouro. 

Recently started experimenting with a 7'2" medium composite spinning rod for 115 mm jerkbaits and less, poppers, small cranks. 15# braid - leader. It's worked well. Powell, Phenix, St. Croix all make composite spinning rods if you ever want to test out jerkbaiting with a glass rod / braid. 

I was always resistant to Megabass jerkbait rods and the whole minus 7' jerkbait rod trend. I did try my brother's Levante oneten stick with straight 10# flouro and was very impressed with the tip and taper. Fun to throw and no problems with hookups/landing.

[MickD]

It is the power that provides the acceleration of the lure and that loads the rod well for the cast.   In the case of hard jerks I think making the jerk you want takes priority because if that is not  right you won't get any fish.  You have to find the power/action/length combination that with that line allows  you to get the jerk characteristics that you want (and that the fish want).  I don't think there is only one answer.

 

With some Xfast actions the tip may be too soft to allow you to get the jerk you want.  

 

I think, based on my experience, that for that lure, a medium power fast action rod would be the best, and in a length that allows you to jerk it without having the tip in the water.

 

I remember a long time ago that glass rods with weights on the tip were recommended in order to slow the jerks down.  But I think that was for southern largemouths.  It would not work well for northern smallies that I've encountered,  which seem to want a more abrupt, sharper, jerk than would be possible with rigs like that.  

 

 

[JustinKoh]

@Fat Ika It's so impressive that you successfully use jerkbait with composite rod. How did you hit snaps when you use composite spinning rod compared with the case of Levante oneten stick?

@MickD Wait I assumed that XFast is harder than Moderate on tip. XFast bends more on tip but Moderate bends as a whole with the same workload, meaning XFast rod's tip easily bend -> soft... am I wrong?

[ironbjorn]

34 minutes ago, JustinKoh said:

@softwateronly  Do you think most jerkbaits beautifully jump even if you hit snaps so hard? As far as I experience, Jackall rerange 110, Berkley Stunna, and EverGreen FA jerkbait show beautiful side-to-side jump even if I hit snaps hard.
But other many jerkbaits(eg. Lucky Craft Pointer 100, Megabass Vision 110, Nishine Erie 115SD, EverGreen SideStep) seem to have a strictly limited acceptable hitting strength. If I hit too hard (I always make a line slack after hitting), it jumps to weird direction, and mostly pick up lines by hooks.
I just guessed that choosing proper taper may relax the acceptable range...

 

@Deephaven Braid without leader + XF taper sounds very stiff. Do you hit snaps very softly (but still quick motion)? Or as hard as possible?

@RDB Reason why I use 30lb braid to 20lb mono...
1) Not so often I target deep range, since I majorly fish in shallow water area (I fish from bank)
-> I prefer floating line over sinking line
2) My field has so so heavy covers
-> I prefer thicker line
3) I don't like memory of fluoro and mono lines. It costs and it's so awkward to work on fishing tackle at home in front of my kids and my wife. Less chances of replacing line is justice!
-> I go with braid
4) I don't like a line break. If snagged, I may take it back by bending hooks.
-> I prefer thicker line (and leader).
5) I cast a long distance and twitch there. Less stretch is preferable for me.
-> Braid

@ironbjorn You mean 8ft? No it doesn't dive 8ft. Actually I prefer 110 diving shallower... I fish from bank, my field is mostly very shallow and 2-5 ft is enough diving range in my case:)

No, I meant inches. I was exaggerating to make a point. I use 12lb mono in my shallow ponds with the 110 and even then I'm sometimes not getting any depth but it's the price you pay to fish hard jerkbaits in shallow water. 20lb I couldn't imagine.

[JustinKoh]

14 minutes ago, ironbjorn said:

No, I meant inches. I was exaggerating to make a point. I use 12lb mono in my shallow ponds with the 110 and even then I'm sometimes not getting any depth but it's the price you pay to fish hard jerkbaits in shallow water. 20lb I couldn't imagine.

Thank you for clarifying! I do have 10lb fluoro so tomorrow I try it for leader!

[Boomstick]

1 hour ago, JustinKoh said:

@Boomstick Don't you have any issues of stretching mono, especially when you do jerk in long distance?

No, not really. Being an extra fast without too much tip, 12# mono works nicely. Sufix Advance doesn't seem to have a lot of stretch either, but jerkbaits can survive a little bit of stretch.

 

I should have noted that I sometimes use 12# fluoro too, it just depends which reels I have in use. If I have all my other reels in use, then I usually use mono because I run mono on the reel I normally pair with that rod for topwater so I immediately went to mono.

 

[Fat Ika]

47 minutes ago, JustinKoh said:

@Fat Ika It's so impressive that you successfully use jerkbait with composite rod. How did you hit snaps when you use composite spinning rod compared with the case of Levante oneten stick?

@MickD Wait I assumed that XFast is harder than Moderate on tip. XFast bends more on tip but Moderate bends as a whole with the same workload, meaning XFast rod's tip easily bend -> soft... am I wrong?

@JustinKoh With the braid, on the composite, I'm definitely not hitting the snaps as hard......but the composite plus braid is not too dissimilar feeling to me. I'm still a little more conservative with snapping on a composite/braid setup from comparing visual bait action. Head-head, I do feel, during the warmer months, the oneten with flouro is my preferred setup for more aggressive snapping, feel safer with casting setup/flouro when around violent smallies.

 

For casting distance, the spinning setup (7'2" Powell Endurance Composite w/ Stradic 3000) blows away casting with a fast or moderate graphite casting rod (6'11" - 7'2" rods) w/ a Met DC

[softwateronly]

Hearing what some of you are saying about hitting the jerkbait has me intrigued.  I've done best with hard hits on a semi-slack line.  The bait rolls, flashes, darts, and turns but only moves 4-8" in distance, in essence giving a startled/fleeing appearance but remaining basically in the same place.  Allowing for attention getting and yet giving the fish time to rise up for it.  The cold vs warm water for me has to do with the closeness of the hits and the grouping.  Are others having success with a more gentle approach? Slow pulling?

 

scott

[softwateronly]

2 hours ago, JustinKoh said:

@softwateronly  Do you think most jerkbaits beautifully jump even if you hit snaps so hard? As far as I experience, Jackall rerange 110, Berkley Stunna, and EverGreen FA jerkbait show beautiful side-to-side jump even if I hit snaps hard.
But other many jerkbaits(eg. Lucky Craft Pointer 100, Megabass Vision 110, Nishine Erie 115SD, EverGreen SideStep) seem to have a strictly limited acceptable hitting strength. If I hit too hard (I always make a line slack after hitting), it jumps to weird direction, and mostly pick up lines by hooks.
I just guessed that choosing proper taper may relax the acceptable range...

 

 

The LC 100 and Vision 110 are the jerks I use that I need to be mindful of hitting too hard.  The MR Rerange and Nishine are absolute killers for me.  I hit em as hard as I can on semi slack line, moving the rod tip about 10-12", hopefully the bait is moving 4-8"  This has been a killer for me on MI ice out / prespawn LM.  I come back around to it in the fall/early winter when the weeds die back a bit.  The Vision 110+1 and Stunna 112+1 do well with hard hits for me, but I can't quite haul off on them like my faves, and the nishine is definitely my current fave.

 

scott

 

[MickD]

2 hours ago, JustinKoh said:

@Fat Ika It's so impressive that you successfully use jerkbait with composite rod. How did you hit snaps when you use composite spinning rod compared with the case of Levante oneten stick?

@MickD Wait I assumed that XFast is harder than Moderate on tip. XFast bends more on tip but Moderate bends as a whole with the same workload, meaning XFast rod's tip easily bend -> soft... am I wrong?

If you have two rods of the same length and power the tip will be softer on the Xfast than it will be on a "slower" action.  The problem comes with comparing rods of different lengths, different actions, different powers, with the descriptors of these characteristics all over the place from the vendors.  Not all "medium powers" are the same power.  Not all "fast actions" are the same action.  But the fact is, that Xfast action rods normally have pretty soft tips.  Are you familiar with "hot shot rods?"  They are very stiff for most of their length, and have very soft tips to allow one to see the vibration of the hot shot lures as they vibrate in the current behind the boat.  They have pretty high power, but their tips are very soft. They are the best example of what I describe.  Xfast usually = soft tips. 

[RDB]

6 hours ago, JustinKoh said:

1) Not so often I target deep range, since I majorly fish in shallow water area (I fish from bank)

I understand and I’m sure you know that a 110 is never going to reach deep ranges.  It’s depth is ~5ft on 12lb fluoro and will likely be much less on 20lb mono.  You can keep it a little higher in the water column by periodically mixing in an upward jerk.

 

6 hours ago, JustinKoh said:

2) My field has so so heavy covers

Fair enough but heavy cover and jerkbaits typically don’t get along well together.  IMO, if the choice is choosing a setup that hinders the effectiveness of the lure or just choosing another lure, I would typically choose another lure.

 

6 hours ago, JustinKoh said:

4) I don't like a line break.

I think it’s fair to say nobody does ?.

 

6 hours ago, JustinKoh said:

5) I cast a long distance and twitch there. Less stretch is preferable for me.

I think this is looking for a solution to a problem that likely doesn’t exist.  Most everyone typically launches jerkbaits and the amount of stretch you would experience with 12lb is a non factor if you are using appropriate technique.

 

People should go with their comfort but personally, I would not use braid for treble hook baits and especially jerkbaits.  Those evil trebles trebles don’t need more reasons to expand their evilness.  I’m not trying to convince you to change,,,just pointing out that you may be sacrificing some lure effectiveness with your line choice.

 

5 hours ago, Fat Ika said:

I was always resistant to Megabass jerkbait rods and the whole minus 7' jerkbait rod trend. I did try my brother's Levante oneten stick with straight 10# flouro and was very impressed with the tip and taper.

I agree…I typically don’t buy rods less than 7’.  The Oneten Stick is 6’5” and the shorter handle and length really does make it more enjoyable for me to fish.  So far I dig the rod.

 

 

As far as rod qualities, jerkbait rods typically have many of the same qualities as topwater walking or popper rods.

 

As far as how hard you jerk, I would recommend folks spend some time casting in a pool.  If you have an appropriate rod, you might be surprised at the action you impart throwing slack on even the lightest jerks.  To think you need to stay consistent on your jerk strength or cadence is to miss opportunities to impart the most appropriate action to match the fishes mood.

[Deephaven]

6 hours ago, JustinKoh said:

@Deephaven Braid without leader + XF taper sounds very stiff. Do you hit snaps very softly (but still quick motion)? Or as hard as possible?

The rod does a better job of allowing the bait to walk/jerk nearly in place without moving forward compared to anything I have ever used.  It is also my walking bait rod, but when you think about the motion you are imparting in jerk baits it is about the same in particular if you are in the strike zone and want to stay there.  Other rods require more energy to do the same and it is harder to control.  

[Dwight Hottle]

My favorite gear for jerk baits is braid with a copoly leader. To add in some give I prefer a moderate action rod or moderate fast in MH power. I like to use the best quality blank I can buy because they are crisper & deliver better bait movement with minimal effort. If I decide to use mono instead of braid I'll switch to a fast or extra fast action rod because the mono line offers plenty of give or stretch to the system. My hook up ratio to fish landed is pretty high using the moderate action rod. 

[JustinKoh]

Hi guys thank you for all of your helps.

I've been experimenting jerking with my several rods and I got to know (as some of you mention)
line, taper, rod length, and even snap size/shape could change jerkbait's motion...

BTW, accidentally I discovered a tip which may make jerkbait's action better when you use braid.
Some jerkbait, especially "floating" and "pause with head-up" type jerkbaits,
you can add floating board to the tail and weight board to the jaw.
Braid floats, so it pulls up the head too much and sometimes the rip can't get water resistance
as it's assumed.

It specifically improved the action of Nories Laydown Minnow 110F(Floating) and 110HF(Hi-Floating).
Here, "improve" means 1) much less chance of that hook picks up line, 2) more chances of jerkbait jump side-to-side.
I used 30lb braid and 20lb mono for the test.

Again, thank you guys!