Why do I spend $$ on “nice” reels??

[dodgeguy]

42 minutes ago, AmmoGuy said:

Why?

is there something objective about the way they are designed or manufactured that would benefit me? Or is the Lews sticker that Doyo puts on them just better? 
 

Lew's reels may be built in the same factory as abu and others but they are not exactly the same. They are built to Lew's specs. They provide awesome performance for the money at the 100$ price point and above. I have different models from a 99$ LFS to a 299$ custom lite. All perform well above  their price points. As far as the Custom lite goes I don't think you can buy a lighter smoother reel at that price point.

[MN Fisher]

1 minute ago, dodgeguy said:

Lew's reels may be built in the same factory as abu and others but they are not exactly the same. They are built to Lew's specs.

That's true about all the brands that Doyo builds under contract. Each brand supplies the schematics, specifications and tolerances - and Doyo builds them to those.

[QED]

1 hour ago, MN Fisher said:

That's true about all the brands that Doyo builds under contract. Each brand supplies the schematics, specifications and tolerances - and Doyo builds them to those.

 

I work in tech and one of the jokes (with a kernel of truth to it) that we used to tell was that the PRC contract manufactures build your stuff during the day shift and knock-off copies during the night shift.  In the EDA industry, we wouldn't sell silicon IP in source code form into the PRC because we would only sell one of each - the copyrighted software sold there at the time was > 90% pirated.  What does that have to do with Korean suppliers?  We had ethical challenges with them as well.  YMMV.

[BrianMDTX]

Great thread. 
 

I don’t have true “high end” reels. My “best” baitcasters are a Tatula 100 and a Fuego CT. I have two Abu Garcia Black Max’s. I can bomb cast a Zara Spook on my Black Max (in my opinion) quite a bit farther than either of those Daiwas. I like them all. But truth be told, if I had nothing but Black Max’s, I would not lose a wink of sleep. Yeah, the drag and brake adjustments are more positive on the Daiwas, but it’s never been an issue as far as casting and fighting fish are concerned. 
 

If I’m going to spend $$$, I’d rather invest it in rods. I like my Aird-X’s, but not like my Dobyns Fury or Falcon Lowrider. 

[AmmoGuy]

15 minutes ago, dodgeguy said:

Lew's reels may be built in the same factory as abu and others but they are not exactly the same. They are built to Lew's specs. They provide awesome performance for the money at the 100$ price point and above. 

The exact same could be said for most every other Doyo brand. My buddy has two sub $100 Black Max’s that have been fantastic.

 

[PhishLI]

9 hours ago, AmmoGuy said:

My education and background is Engineering, and I manage a manufacturing facility. My world is machining, assembly, quality, and creating good product.

Sounds like you have a sensitivity level higher than the average bear. I lived the same life as you many years ago, so I get it. We can assume parts like pinions and main gears on higher $ reels get QC screened and sorted with greater scrutiny, hence the higher prices. Cast or forged frames get machined too. Those are nearly always prone to "springing" to a certain degree during the process. If there's an accepted rejection rate with higher$ model's frames, which factors into pricing, it's probably overlooked on mass production products and they get pushed through. Perhaps parts where the tolerances are used up in one direction or the other on the +/- scale get kicked down to the lower priced high production products. Put a pinion and a main gear together where the +/- tolerances are used up to the limit in the wrong direction and you get a geary reel, or one that becomes geary quickly. Insert the next scenario where dumb luck loose tolerance parts are mixed randomly, and favorably, and you get a smooth Tatula CT that stays that way.

 

You sound like a candidate for at least known, proven entry level high end stuff at the very least.

 

You're in manufacturing, so you know the facts. If the average person knew what the true total cost is of manufacturing a reel retailing for $200, including multicolor packaging and inserts, they'd fall over. With a little education they'd also understand that there's only so much total energy converted to cost that a manufacturer can put into a product without going out of business.

[AmmoGuy]

31 minutes ago, PhishLI said:

Sounds like you have a sensitivity level higher than the average bear. I lived the same life as you many years ago, so I get it. We can assume parts like pinions and main gears on higher $ reels get QC screened and sorted with greater scrutiny, hence the higher prices. Cast or forged frames get machined too. Those are nearly always prone to "springing" to a certain degree during the process. If there's an accepted rejection rate with higher$ model's frames, which factors into pricing, it's probably overlooked on mass production products and they get pushed through. Perhaps parts where the tolerances are used up in one direction or the other on the +/- scale get kicked down to the lower priced high production products. Put a pinion and a main gear together where the +/- tolerances are used up to the limit in the wrong direction and you get a geary reel, or one that becomes geary quickly. Insert the next scenario where dumb luck loose tolerance parts are mixed randomly, and favorably, and you get a smooth Tatula CT that stays that way.

 

You sound like a candidate for at least know, proven entry level high end stuff at the very least.

 

You're in manufacturing, so you know the facts. If the average person knew what the true total cost of manufacturing a reel retailing for $200, including multicolor packaging and inserts, they'd fall over. With a little education they'd also understand that there's only so much total energy converted to cost that a manufacturer can put into a product without going out of business.

Great post. Spot on. 
And I admittedly am more sensitive than the average reel buyer. But I try to be sensitive on an objective level. 
 

I really doubt there’s much change, if any at all, in how particular parts (such as pinions) are manufactured, sorted, or QC’d within any one series of reel or design. Meaning, I’d bet my hat you get the same pinion gear in a $150 Tatula as you do in a $250 Tatula Elite. “Features” that are marketable to the general public, and the ever popular bearing count are usually the case for price changes within one reel platform/design. 
 

Some reels are obviously built more sloppily than others. Some vary materials in otherwise similar reels. But do I think Lews or others specify different tolerances on the gears in an $80 reel vs a $150 reel of the same mechanical design? I don’t. I spend my fair share of time working with GD&T and modern machining, and I can’t see that being the case. 

[FishTank]

1 hour ago, MN Fisher said:

That's true about all the brands that Doyo builds under contract. Each brand supplies the schematics, specifications and tolerances - and Doyo builds them to those.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. They are many differences between some reels but some are exactly the same and while others my have the same frame but different spools and handles, the parts on the inside are the same.... Custom Lite and the Liger 30.

 

 

 

 

[Tatulatard]

Need.  I guess this is all you need but even this is a bit extravagant.  You would jut get a brick and some string.  You don't need any fancy winders or poles.   

12 minutes ago, AmmoGuy said:

Great post. Spot on. 
And I admittedly am more sensitive than the average reel buyer. But I try to be sensitive on an objective level. 
 

I really doubt there’s much change, if any at all, in how particular parts (such as pinions) are manufactured, sorted, or QC’d within any one series of reel or design. Meaning, I’d bet my hat you get the same pinion gear in a $150 Tatula as you do in a $250 Tatula Elite. “Features” that are marketable to the general public, and the ever popular bearing count are usually the case for price changes within one reel platform/design. 
 

Some reels are obviously built more sloppily than others. Some vary materials in otherwise similar reels. But do I think Lews or others specify different tolerances on the gears in an $80 reel vs a $150 reel of the same mechanical design? I don’t. I spend my fair share of time working with GD&T and modern machining, and I can’t see that being the case. 

You know what you need?  A jdm zillion.  That's what you need.  That or the more expensive inflated US dollar based usdm zillion.  It'll make you forget all about those tatulas. 

[AmmoGuy]

6 minutes ago, Tatulatard said:

You know what you need?  A jdm zillion.  That's what you need.  That or the more expensive inflated US dollar based usdm zillion.  It'll make you forget all about those tatulas. 

I don’t disagree with that assessment one bit. You want to buy some used Tats and Coastals? ?

 

On that note… Do the 21 JDM Zillion SV TW’s have brass gears? 

[Tatulatard]

11 minutes ago, FishTank said:

I wouldn't be so sure about that. They are many differences between some reels but some are exactly the same and while others my have the same frame but different spools and handles, the parts on the inside are the same.... Custom Lite and the Liger 30.

 

 

 

 

Yeah I'm pretty sure lews just orders doyo reels with their name on the outside like bass pro.  If I remember correctly the lews reel brand relaunch was ran buy the guy from bass pro that coordinated with doyo to order reels for bass pro.  He bought the lews brand from bass pro, that had acquired it from browning, and then began selling doyos as lews when bass pro had begun to move away from doyo to Banax and chinease oem reels for their reels.  This was a brilliant idea and doyo makes pretty good reels.  Yeah its not really a "lews" but most are either unaware or don't care.  

4 minutes ago, AmmoGuy said:

I don’t disagree with that assessment one bit. You want to buy some used Tats and Coastals? ?

 

On that note… Do the 21 JDM Zillion SV TW’s have brass gears? 

Nope but they are super smooth, stay smooth (so far) and have a brass drop in option if/when needed.  It took years of use for the steez aluminum gears to wear out on guys and these are apposed even better aluminum gears.  I've bot heard anything yet or experienced it myself yet.   

[ironbjorn]

My last 6 casting reel purchases have been the Shimano SLX XT and the Abu Garcia Max X (formerly the Black Max). I've said it before and I'll say it again: if I suddenly lost everything and had to start over, I would just buy a ton of Black Max reels. I haven't bought a Black Max (Max X) in awhile, but I had a few rods laying around without reels and didn't feel like dropping any serious coin on reels for them. I've never had an issue with the Black Max line. 

[PhishLI]

20 minutes ago, ironbjorn said:

if I suddenly lost everything and had to start over, I would just buy a ton of Black Max reels.

If in a fantastical fever dream where a mystical force comes down from on high, pokes its finger in my chest and says. "Listen, Massmole, you'll have nothing but Fuego CTs forevermore", my world will keep turning. Wouldn't skip a beat really, but my 4 year old Fuegos remain very solid. @AmmoGuy is batting .500 on the misery index. I think it's safe to say he needs to move up, up, up to find happiness. On the flipside, he can remove high expectations from the equation completely and go budget, then tune out whatever creeps in over time. At least he'll get what he paid for if/when things go wonky.

[RDB]

Some people want fancy clothes or cars or want to eat at the fanciest restaurants…nothing wrong with that if that’s where they get their enjoyment.  One of my biggest areas of enjoyment is fishing and I choose to have the best and am fortunate to have the means to do so.  While I can’t remember the last time I have had any type of reel failure, if I found myself getting spun out if it happened, I would probably re-evaluate the appropriateness of my choices.  IMO, if it has any lasting effect on your mood, it might be better to scale down.  There are many good reels at every price level. 

[WRB]

It comes down to craftsmanship. Reels made in China, Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia are high production by automated machinery not skilled machinist. You are the inspector.

Today only Japan has skilled machinist operating CNC machinery. Japanese are zero defect oriented.

Made in Sweden was the bench mark that no longer exist in today’s production reels.

Back 40 years all new reels were “Geary”. We had to lap the gear train to be smooth, today we complain and throw it away.

Tom

[AmmoGuy]

1 hour ago, PhishLI said:

If in a fantastical fever dream where a mystical force comes down from on high, pokes its finger in my chest and says. "Listen, Massmole, you'll have nothing but Fuego CTs forevermore", my world will keep turning. Wouldn't skip a beat really, but my 4 year old Fuegos remain very solid. @AmmoGuy is batting .500 on the misery index. I think it's safe to say he needs to move up, up, up to find happiness. On the flipside, he can remove high expectations from the equation completely and go budget, then tune out whatever creeps in over time. At least he'll get what he paid for if/when things go wonky.

Ha. I have yet to try a Fuego. 
 

This topic causes me no misery. I’m just intrigued by it. To your point, I’ve picked up a couple of “cheap” reels recently. Just to see how that goes, lol. 

[QED]

1 hour ago, RDB said:

Some people want fancy clothes or cars or want to eat at the fanciest restaurants…nothing wrong with that if that’s where they get their enjoyment.  [stuff deleted]

 

I prefer great experiences, whether three Michelin star restaurants or travel to Italy, UK, France, Holland, Germany, Taiwan, Japan, Mexico, Spain, Canada, or wherever, relative to things.  That said, high end fishing gear improves the fishing experience enough (to me) that I can rationalize it.  YMMV.

[ironbjorn]

1 hour ago, PhishLI said:

If in a fantastical fever dream where a mystical force comes down from on high, pokes its finger in my chest and says. "Listen, Massmole, you'll have nothing but Fuego CTs forevermore", my world will keep turning. Wouldn't skip a beat really, but my 4 year old Fuegos remain very solid. @AmmoGuy is batting .500 on the misery index. I think it's safe to say he needs to move up, up, up to find happiness. On the flipside, he can remove high expectations from the equation completely and go budget, then tune out whatever creeps in over time. At least he'll get what he paid for if/when things go wonky.

My Black Max claim has more to do with the fact that, if I lost everything today, there's no way I'd want to pay to replace it all, especially with the Black Max performing more than adequately and being entirely replaceable. I feel the same about Aird X and Fury rods. My life would go on.

[newapti5]

I can't tell the difference between $10 wines and $100 wines, so those things are a waste to me. But I can definitely tell the differences between a reel from Walmart and a mid-range reel, say Tatula CT. 

 

I see most replies here are talking about the "smoothness" or manufacturing tolerance or craftsmanship. IMO a reel's value is judged not only by how smooth it is, but also by its design. You can call those features such as T-wing, SV spool, MGL, micromodule...  marketing gimmicks, but I see they put a lot of time and money to design those. And some of them do work,  whether you like to have them or not.  

 

Anyway, if low range and mid range reels feel the same to you, I wouldn't suggest high end reels. The higher it goes, usually the smaller differences you will feel.  

 

BTW, I don't think anyone needs a mid-range reel to improve his/her game - a better reel just adds some extra entertaining value to the game. 

[Hammer 4]

I'm just gonna toss this out there for the heck of it.

Most expensive reel I own is a Diawa Tatula 300, cost, $ 270.00 USD. Of my 7 reels (baitcasters) price ranges from 100 bucks on up, most are in the 100 to 150 dollar range.

None of them have or had any issues, 6 are Diawa and 1 Shimano.

When I bought reels 10 years ago, they were all Shimano,  and all were made in Japan, they worked very well.

[GreenPig]

My 3 - $400+ reels are the only manly way I can bedazzle my jon boat.

[ska4fun]

To use high performance gear and fully extract all of their potential, there is a certain need of proficiency and very specific conditions.

 

2 years ago I tried a very cheap, crappy chinese reel, called Seaknight Falcon. My friend made fun of me, until actually fishing started and the Falcon simply casted way  longer than his Metanium.

 

I always carry a cheap chinese reel (lurestar c9 air) on my bass BFS setup, together my my custom cq51 BFS and my Tatula elite. The chinese reel simply landed astonishingly good fish, performing flawlessly for 3 years.

 

Pinion support is a must have for high speed reels. For reels intened to big game freshwater fish, like the Zillion HLC series, a precise machining and CNC is way more important.

 

Shimano use bearing supported  pinions for several years (s-ship and x-ship), yet is unable to deliver a decent gearing aluminum alloy.

[Catt]

#1 key to consistently catching bass is between your ears not between the folds of your wallet.

[bulldog1935]

actually, this thread is simply more proof that philosophy and fishermen make strange boatfellows - a thinly-veiled boast, frugality, and anti-gear pile-on, on a forum page dedicated to gear. 

[PourMyOwn]

4 hours ago, WRB said:

It comes down to craftsmanship. Reels made in China, Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia are high production by automated machinery not skilled machinist. You are the inspector.

Today only Japan has skilled machinist operating CNC machinery. Japanese are zero defect oriented.

Made in Sweden was the bench mark that no longer exist in today’s production reels.

Back 40 years all new reels were “Geary”. We had to lap the gear train to be smooth, today we complain and throw it away.

Tom

Tom, this is kind of on topic-those TD-X Daiwas you sold me are still going strong. 

 

I have an affinity for Daiwas from about 1998-2010 or so. I think I'm up to around 15 of them. Like a few of you mentioned,  I actually DID lose most of my equipment in a garage fire. So I had to start over. I bought a couple of Silver Max reels and decided that my $50 was better spent on used high end gear.