Guide placement for a casting rod

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

So the kr GPS at angler's resource and some tips from others on static testing and placement of guides got me going with building spinning rods. I don't see anything here about that and anglers resource doesn't have software for the reduction layout. Ill run a Metanium on a 7'3" fast mag taper 3/8-1oz blank. What are your thoughts on guide placement and size? The Fuji video I watched about it showed a casting layout. How is that achieved?

Also interested in people's thoughts on spiral wraps and possible layouts for that.

[casts_by_fly]

Depending on the stiffness of the butt (well actually the blank between the seat and the first guide) I’ll be somewhere around 20-24” from the reel face to the first guide. Then I’ll start at the top and use a basic incremental distance to start (4”, 4.5”, 5”, etc) until I’m back to the butt guide. Then everything is static load tested until it looks right. Faster actions will shift guides up towards the tip, more moderate rods will take a more even spacing. 
 

I’ve done a lot of spiral wrapped rods and have three or four of my own downstairs. Spacing is roughly the same. You can get away with a guide fewer usually if you want. Casting performance doesn’t change. Fish fighting on bigger fish is better (more stable rod) but it isn’t a big difference. 

[MickD]

I've not found a need to go beyond 20 inches from the level wind guide on the reel and the first guide.  After that I do a lot like Casts by fly with a two line stress test.  I have done both simple spiral and traditional on top, prefering the latter just for cosmetics, I guess.  I just cannot seem to get use to the look of the spiral.  But I agree with Casts that they fish well.  The elimination of torquing is most important on heavier power rods.  Also, with the small, low, guides I use, there really isn't much torquing anyway.

 

I use the Fuji RV for the first guide and KB/KT's to the end, usually 5.5, but have gone as small the 4.  

[spoonplugger1]

The reason the GPS vid doesn't cover static testing is because once you have the reduction guides figured out the rest is the very same guide as the choke guide and the rules apply to all rods no matter the length, reel, power, or species. 

The info you seek is on the Fuji site under Static Load Testing. Hit the menu top right and look for it.

There are a bunch of ways to spiral wrap, some real simple, some much more involved, just read an article on a "new" system that sounded like the 40+ year old one developed by Ralph O'Quinn, the guy took 9 pages to explain what Ralph did in 5 minutes, including a demonstration from bare rod, first time a rodbuilding article tryed to put me to sleep before finishing, way to much bla, bla, bla and back patting for my taste. In the end he named it after himself, the Roberts Wrap fiasco all over again.

[Unk]

5 hours ago, spoonplugger1 said:

The reason the GPS vid doesn't cover static testing is because once you have the reduction guides figured out the rest is the very same guide as the choke guide and the rules apply to all rods no matter the length, reel, power, or species. 

The info you seek is on the Fuji site under Static Load Testing. Hit the menu top right and look for it

I would be very interested in the Fuji info on Static Load Testing . I went to the fujitackle site and could not find a menu button . Typed Static Load Testing in the search bar and got no results . Could you point me to the correct site ? Thanks .

Please disregard this . I found the site .

[MikeK]

anglersresource.net

[MickD]

 Anglersresource.net>Open Menu>Resources>Static Load Tutorial

 

https://anglersresource.net/static-load-tutorial/

[Unk]

4 hours ago, MikeK said:

anglersresource.net

Thanks Mike . I did some searching and found the site .

2 hours ago, MickD said:

 Anglersresource.net>Open Menu>Resources>Static Load Tutorial

 

https://anglersresource.net/static-load-tutorial/

Thanks Mick . As I mentioned in the above reply , I did some searching and found the site .

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

Awesome stuff guys, thanks for all the information! @MickD i see the RV only comes in a size 6 which makes sizing easy. 3 kbs and 7 kts sound about right?

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

30lb braid to 20lb fluorocarbon won't have an issue passing through a 5? I don't fish a leader knot 80%of the time, this will see a connection knots every now and then

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

I think I'm going to attempt a spiral wrap, I ordered an RV, 3 kb 5.5s and 7 kt 5.5s to work with. If there's an extra or two I'll use them in the future. 

[MickD]

You most likely can get along with 8 or 9 total with a spiral, good idea to have spares.

 

Regarding knot clearance, you want it to be right even for a "now and then" knot clearance.  Passing 30-20 through a size 5 will depend on the knot.  FG OK for sure.  I don't think you'll like it very much with a double uni.  Alberto maybe, but I'm not sure. I don't go as heavy as 20 mono/FC.

 

The double uni has 5 "layers" of the larger line, the mono/FC.  Alberto has 2.  FG has 1.  If you have not already gotten familiar with properly tying an FG, you may find an adventure in store.  Some people get it easily, some don't , some argue line characteristics get involved with its success.  If you go Alberto,, I suggest finishing it by very tightly setting both tag ends, both running lines, and adding two half hitchs of the tag end, also set tightly.  I've had them unravel without the half hitches.

 

If you are using 20 mono or FC I don't see the need for 30 braid, so with no knot any guide will work with 20 mono/FC.

 

Are you familiar with the "simple spiral?"  Easy peasy, no problems with line loading on the reel to one side, and cast just as well as the more complicated designs.  You will need one more double foot guide, very low, size 5 or 6 to put between the RV and the second guide.  

[Lead Head]

I cast 40 and 50lb 832 with a 25lb sunline sniper leader through size 5 guides using the simplified version of the GT knot. Only issue is the knot will hang if I try to reel it into the tip top at 90 degrees or less, but it casts fine. I'm using such heavy leader because I like to fish jigs in some really nasty sharp chunk rock. 

[MickD]

Can you show us the simplified GT, ? thanks

 

I think it hangs because a big figure 8 knot is trying to be reeled through the tiptop.  I don't think the GT knot makes sense for small guides and relatively light leaders.  IMHO

[Lead Head]

Its the one you're thinking of, if I remember correctly you didn't like it because the figure 8 was too small with your lighter lines. I like it because its quick and easy, passes my guides, and holds up to big hooksets. When I have to break off, I fail at the lure and not the leader. 

 

The biggest reason I use it instead of an Alberto is the holding up to big hooksets part. I popped a couple Alberto knots with my (I'm sure way too hard) jig swing. Most people hate the idea of a leader on casting setups, but I'm supremely confident in it now, it works for me. As hard as the rocks are on my line, replacing a 5' leader is far more economical than straight FC, and keeps my spool full. I skip with the same setup and the spool staying consistent helps.

 

FG works fine, but I usually retie often when in the rocks and anything easier and faster to tie is preferable. 

 

Sorry I'm kinda derailing the thread...

[MickD]

With 25 pound test leader one can give up about 50% of the leader strength and still fish well most of the time.  Not so with the leader strength most of us use.  

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

I have a ton of confidence in my Alberto knot. Never had a failure at the connection knots to this point. @MickD is the simple spiral the one that brings it underneath the blank in a very short distance? I watched the guys on a mudhole video do one with one double foot and micros from there on our that went to the bottom in a ( what seemed) very short distance.

[MickD]

the recipe for a simple spiral is to place the first guide where you want it, then locate the other guides using a stress test, considering that it's going to be a spiral so may not need as many guides when most of them are on the bottom.  Then rotate all the guides exc the first one to 180 degrees.  That is where they will be wrapped.  Now add a low two foot guide, same size as the runners, at 90 degrees half way between the first and second guides.  It is simply to keep the line off the blank.  Some don't use it.  It should be very low, bend a guide if you like to get it lower.  It will be loaded directly into the blank putting the legs into compression with no loading other than right into the blank.

 

The bumper (the guide between 1 and 2) can go on either side.  I put it on the same side as the reel handles so it's ;pointing up, as are the reel handles, when the rod is placed on the deck.