Best practices for fishing senkos in heavy milfoil?

[Steve Goldy]

I spend a few weeks each summer at a lake in southern Ontario. The fishing off the dock there is fantastic, but the entire surrounding area is thick with milfoil. We are not talking edges, or the occasional clear pocket….just a field of milfoil, with many areas of surface protrusion. 
My first year staying there, I used to try pulling lures (spinners, spoons) through the infrequent clear patches, but far too many hangups/tackle losses soon turned my fishing sessions into a frustrating ordeal instead of a relaxed outing. My catches were few and far between, and those few I pulled in were nothing to write home about. I was determined to find a method that would work for the area.

My second year there, I decided to try a new (to me) technique…topwaters. I reasoned it was probably my only option, given my environment. As I became more proficient in their use, I started getting less hangups…and some huge fish? As the season ended, I was really hitting my stride and feel that at least I can always count on topwaters to produce while there. The only drawback to topwaters is that I found that for them to be at their most effective….you were stuck to fishing times of around dawn or dusk. I didnt get much action out of them during the daytime.

About to begin my third year there, and I was hoping to add yet another reliable technique to my arsenal when it comes to fishing in the thick weeds (and hopefully, during the daytime). From my research, it looks as if senkos are another recommended method for heavy cover fishing. However, the various strategies for their usage tend to vary quite a bit when it comes to style (t-rig, dropshot, Carolina, wacky), line type and test (braid w/fluro leader, str8 fluro, str8 braid), rod (anything from med to H) and weight considerations (weighted or unweighted, weight type/style).

I have the tackle to rig most of the above styles, in either weighted or unweighted presentations and in various hook sizes. I have the rods and reels to create almost any combination required in terms of gear ratio and rod power/taper/length. I have any and all line choices needed to support same.

The one thing I don’t have is the experience to make the best selections from the above (and, from the get go) in order to optimize my initial senko experience given my specific fishing environment.

The immediate area has plenty of LMB, SMB, pike and muskie (caught my PB SMB there at 6+ lbs).

I primarily target LMB and SMB. The water depth (within a reasonable casting distance) is between 3-15 feet. Thick with milfoil and many areas with it bulging at the surface. Mostly soft, silty bottom.

 

So, does anyone who uses Senkos in a similar environment care to offer any advise or insights? Any help/tips would be appreciated. I have spent much time researching this specific topic, but there is so much conflicting information online that it has me feeling like I am back to square one?

[softwateronly]

With milfoil that thick, I would peg a 1/2-5/8oz worm weight to punch through and get me to the bottom.  I'd lean toward H-XH and straight braid or braid to heavy mono if there's zebra mussels or tieable steel leader for the toothy critters.  A flipping tube and a beaver would also be on my try it list because I would think you're opening yourself up to more SM bites.  Dirty Jigs punching jigs or SC flipping jig, 3/4-1oz, w/ a grub or beaver has also been effective for me for LM.  With the jig, I usually throw past the weedline, and shake and or bulldoze my way through horizontally.  The milfoil in MI can get almost as heavy as what your describing.

 

scott

[TOXIC]

I fish the Potomac in those conditions and I found that a screw in 1/4oz bullet weight to a 5 inch Senko on a Gamakatsu 4.0 ewg hook, will punch and drag a lot easier than other plastics.  My line of choice would be either heavier mono (12lb) or straight braid.  Another tip would be to save some money and buy cheap Senko knockoffs since you are going to weight them and the action is not important.  

[casts_by_fly]

that's the same thickness of grass we get here in North NJ.  Before it hits the surface you can throw topwaters, but once it hits the top you're limited.  A texas rigged plastic will come through it about the best.  1/4-3/8 oz works for me, pegged with a bobber stop.  

[Deleted account]

Punch

[Steve Goldy]

49 minutes ago, softwateronly said:

With milfoil that thick, I would peg a 1/2-5/8oz worm weight to punch through and get me to the bottom.  I'd lean toward H-XH and straight braid or braid to heavy mono if there's zebra mussels or tieable steel leader for the toothy critters.  A flipping tube and a beaver would also be on my try it list because I would think you're opening yourself up to more SM bites. 

This seems to be the prevailing strategy wrt/plowing through the weeds. Heavy rod, heavy(ish) weight, heavy line for a predominately bottom contact setup. The heavy weighting allows for the terminal tackle to penetrate the salad and sink to the bottom…from there to be pulled (and sliced, if necessary) through the vegetation while dragging the bait along the bottom.

I have purchased some peg-able bullet weights in anticipation of the above solution, but also have weighted hooks that allow for T-rigging. Is there a difference in performance (either hookup ratio or weedless ability) in comparing the two different techniques (weighted hook with bait vs standard baited hook with pegged bullet weight at the top)?

1 hour ago, softwateronly said:

.Dirty Jigs punching jigs or SC flipping jig, 3/4-1oz, w/ a grub or beaver has also been effective for me for LM.  With the jig, I usually throw past the weedline, and shake and or bulldoze my way through horizontally.  The milfoil in MI can get almost as heavy as what your describing.

 

scott

I definitely will try this method with baited jigs, but these types of retrieval’s typically draw as much attention from Pike as with the bass. I was hoping that a more bottom based presentation would eliminate most of those unwanted hits.

51 minutes ago, TOXIC said:

Another tip would be to save some money and buy cheap Senko knockoffs since you are going to weight them and the action is not important.  

I only wish that this had occurred to me while I was “finger twitching” amazon in anticipation of this trip. Makes total sense, and could have saved me a bit over the course of my purchases. Oh well, lesson learned for next time…thanks for the tip!

[Steve Goldy]

33 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

that's the same thickness of grass we get here in North NJ.  Before it hits the surface you can throw topwaters, but once it hits the top you're limited.  A texas rigged plastic will come through it about the best.  1/4-3/8 oz works for me, pegged with a bobber stop.  

As above, have you experimented with T-rigged weighted hooks vs. Peg weighting a T-rigged bait on a standard EWG hook?

It seems intuitive (at least to my limited brainpower?) that a weighted hook should slide through with less potential for hangups, as compared to a similar set up with a bullet weight up front. Alternatively, the shape of the bullet headed weight may allow the entire bait “package” to slip through the weeds more efficiently?

 

[PhishLI]

Swinging swim jigs.

 

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/6th_Sense_Axle_Swinging_Swim_Jig/descpage-AXSSJ.html#customer_reviews

 

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Freedom_Tackle_Stealth_Swim_Jigs/descpage-FREESSW.html#customer_reviews

 

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Strike_King_Swinging_Swim_Jig/descpage-SJTGSS.html

 

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Eco_Pro_Tungsten_Swing_Swim_Jig_/descpage-EPSJ.html

 

Caught in an otherwise impossible to fish forest of milfoil during august, and ripping the bait through. 1/2oz ECO Pro tungsten swinging swim jig. BPS 7" power worm knock off.

 

 

 

[Steve Goldy]

9 minutes ago, PhishLI said:Caught in an otherwise impossible to fish forest of milfoil during august, and ripping the bait through. 1/2oz ECO Pro tungsten swinging swim jig. BPS 7" power worm knock off.

 

 

 

Noice tank! ???
I assume at that combined weight and salad density that you are swinging an XH rod and 50-65 lb braided line?

[PhishLI]

7 minutes ago, Steve Goldy said:

I assume at that combined weight and salad density that you are swinging an XH rod and 50-65 lb braided line?

Nope. 2020 Lew's Tournament Pro LFS, 30lb Daiwa J8-Braid, 13 Omen Black 2 7'3" MHF. The rod leans toward the heavy side though.

[casts_by_fly]

20 minutes ago, Steve Goldy said:

As above, have you experimented with T-rigged weighted hooks vs. Peg weighting a T-rigged bait on a standard EWG hook?

It seems intuitive (at least to my limited brainpower?) that a weighted hook should slide through with less potential for hangups, as compared to a similar set up with a bullet weight up front. Alternatively, the shape of the bullet headed weight may allow the entire bait “package” to slip through the weeds more efficiently?

 

 

I fish weighted swimbait hooks with (not surprisingly) swimbaits and swim them through grass.  It works and comes through pretty clean.  Just make sure you rig the full hook eye inside the bait including the knot.  Then its just a case of how good the swimbait is.  A big keitech SIF comes through pretty clean.  I've never used them for a bottom presentation but its not a bad thought and I'll try it.  If you have weighted swimbait hooks in a couple weights then its worth trying.  If you don't, then I'd stick to a regular texas rig because you can vary the weight and hook easily.

[Steve Goldy]

4 minutes ago, PhishLI said:

Nope. 2020 Lew's Tournament Pro LFS, 30lb Daiwa J-Braid, 13 Omen Black 2 7'3" MHF. The rod leans toward the heavy side though.

Thanks, good to know that one can get by without overly heavy artillery!

[Finessegenics]

I would agree punching or either a heavy enough worm weight to not necessarily crash through, but slice through the weeds are just about the only techniques you can use there IMO. You can rig a senko weightless and fish the submerged sections. The worm should lay on top of the grass and slither across it. It has been effective for me for LMB. Also @TOXIC makes a very good point about punching stick worms. No need for an original senko as a cheap alternative will do just as well. If you wish to try the weightless technique, then go with a senko. No other bait on the market has as good of a shimmy as it when it is rigged weightless. 

[softwateronly]

5 hours ago, Steve Goldy said:

This seems to be the prevailing strategy wrt/plowing through the weeds. Heavy rod, heavy(ish) weight, heavy line for a predominately bottom contact setup. The heavy weighting allows for the terminal tackle to penetrate the salad and sink to the bottom…from there to be pulled (and sliced, if necessary) through the vegetation while dragging the bait along the bottom.

I have purchased some peg-able bullet weights in anticipation of the above solution, but also have weighted hooks that allow for T-rigging. Is there a difference in performance (either hookup ratio or weedless ability) in comparing the two different techniques (weighted hook with bait vs standard baited hook with pegged bullet weight at the top)?

I definitely will try this method with baited jigs, but these types of retrieval’s typically draw as much attention from Pike as with the bass. I was hoping that a more bottom based presentation would eliminate most of those unwanted hits.

I only wish that this had occurred to me while I was “finger twitching” amazon in anticipation of this trip. Makes total sense, and could have saved me a bit over the course of my purchases. Oh well, lesson learned for next time…thanks for the tip!

 

I might be wrong, but my time with the thick weeds has taught me that the big pike, walleye, and bass all seem to use the same areas, sometimes at the same time.  It's probably just the prime feeding location, held by the top predators.  I use the steel leader or get twitchy on my hooksets when using mono to try to eliminate the pike bite offs, doesn't always work.

 

If you like a lighter approach for the milfoil, maybe a tokyo rig.  That seems to slip through most any sort of weed.  I just started trying it last year, still new to me but so far so good.

 

 

scott

 

 

[TnRiver46]

I’m going the opposite and say weightless on 65 braid, offset round bend hooked weedless not wacky 

[Steve Goldy]

3 hours ago, softwateronly said:

 

I might be wrong, but my time with the thick weeds has taught me that the big pike, walleye, and bass all seem to use the same areas, sometimes at the same time.  It's probably just the prime feeding location, held by the top predators.  I use the steel leader or get twitchy on my hooksets when using mono to try to eliminate the pike bite offs, doesn't always work.

 

I agree with your observations wrt/bass, pike, walleye sharing a common habitat. In my case, the walleye tend to be in deeper water by that time of season. Still, I am always wary of attracting pike unnecessarily. My personal experience has found that, while they still may occasionally do so, pike tend to avoid top or bottom presentations. Anytime I fish something in a suspended, mid water fashion, they hit on it mercilessly.??‍♂️I was hoping that bottom contact T-rigging might help me with the toothy critters. Otherwise, I may need to use a short wire leader which will probably screw with the action of the bait. C’est la vie!

3 hours ago, softwateronly said:

 

If you like a lighter approach for the milfoil, maybe a tokyo rig.  That seems to slip through most any sort of weed.  I just started trying it last year, still new to me but so far so good.

 

 

scott

 

 

This sounds interesting. I will check it out…thanks!

3 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

I’m going the opposite and say weightless on 65 braid, offset round bend hooked weedless not wacky 

Spoken like a Costanza!

With the rig being weightless and paired with the heavy test braid, are you primarily fishing/retrieving it along the top of the weeds? What type/size of senko are you using?

[TnRiver46]

9 minutes ago, Steve Goldy said:

I agree with your observations wrt/bass, pike, walleye sharing a common habitat. In my case, the walleye tend to be in deeper water by that time of season. Still, I am always wary of attracting pike unnecessarily. My personal experience has found that, while they still may occasionally do so, pike tend to avoid top or bottom presentations. Anytime I fish something in a suspended, mid water fashion, they hit on it mercilessly.??‍♂️I was hoping that bottom contact T-rigging might help me with the toothy critters. Otherwise, I may need to use a short wire leader which will probably screw with the action of the bait. C’est la vie!

This sounds interesting. I will check it out…thanks!

Spoken like a Costanza!

With the rig being weightless and paired with the heavy test braid, are you primarily fishing/retrieving it along the top of the weeds? What type/size of senko are you using?

Ironically I’m watching costanza right now. Yes sometimes they smash it on top of the weeds. Other times they swim off with it when you let it drop around the edges 

[Fat Ika]

@Steve Goldy    Maybe weightless t-rigged stickbait. If weightless and need distance and a decent sink rate, I like Roboworm 4.5" ned. Owner JHook, Owner J-Light (for easier hook penetration if that hook can handle the gear and cover), or Gammy G-Finesse Hybrid Worm Hook. 30# Suffix G-Core 131. It's expensive, but it has superior casting distance/line management if that's a pain point for you. Maybe whatever nylon line you like for a leader if a leader is needed. I'll experiment for 1/32 - 3/16 oz unpegged bullet if weighting this texas rigged stickbait. 7'2 - 7'6" Med/Hvy or Heavy rod. 

 

3.5-4" tube on a Trokar or Eagle Claw Tube Flipping Hook. Same line. Same rod.

 

If I need to be weedless and want a tiny/streamlined bait so they eat it faster to prevent getting too wrapped up in cover prior to the hookset, I use a unpegged t-rigged SK Rage Baby Menace, 3" Roborm Ned, or some similar small profile plastic. Same line and rod.

[michaelb]

Others have mentioned this, but a paddle tail on a weighted swimbait hook may be better than a senko in terms of ripping through weeds. For the senko, trigged weight less and the key will be that initial drop (so casting into spots). You can swim the senko back. 

[Steve Goldy]

Ty all for your helpful responses.
Over a couple weeks of experimentation, I personally have found that the highest success rate combo I have tried so far is the weighted (1/8), EWG hook with a 4.5 paddle tail bait. I can either pull it through at a mildly brisk pace just above the worst of the salad, or drop and drag and repeat…shooting for the occasional holes in the “topscape”.

Both methods have worked well so far?

[bigbassin']

On 6/9/2022 at 12:10 PM, softwateronly said:

With milfoil that thick, I would peg a 1/2-5/8oz worm weight to punch through and get me to the bottom. 

We definitely have a different definition of thick in Florida…not sure I’ve ever punched with less than a 1oz with 1.5oz being standard. Seen guys go as heavy as 2.5.

[BlakeMolone]

I would learn how to fish a super fluke, can nearly always catch one on a fluke and big bass love them.

[Glenn]

This is how I fish Senkos in milfoil:

 

 

[softwateronly]

12 hours ago, bigbassin' said:

We definitely have a different definition of thick in Florida…not sure I’ve ever punched with less than a 1oz with 1.5oz being standard. Seen guys go as heavy as 2.5.

 

Heavier sure might be better, hard to tell, but I think OP is stating he has a H and likes weightless.  Punch was probably the wrong verb, we usually stay submergent and not a full mat.  The clear water of the N can allow for some real heavy weed growth but you're correct, it doesn't compare to the 10-12 month growing season of FL.  After 1.5oz, I'd have to visit a tackle shop and even probably one online to get heavier.

 

scott

[looking45]

You might try a weightless Senko nose hooked with an EWG hook. Push the hook thru the top of the bait and then back it out so you can skin  hook it. Drag it on the top and stop and let it fall into any open areas. Good luck