Does my rod suck, or is just not right for what I'm using it for

[07Rapala]

I am just getting back into fishing and am mostly focused on finesse techniques. I have been a long-time spinning reel user and I'm not yet ready to learn something new in a baitcasting reel.

 

So I wanted a little heavier spinning reel to handle bigger lures like spinner baits, jerk baits, pike spoons, etc. I bought a Stradic 3000 reel and a 7' Fenwick Eagle Heavy, fast-action rod, which is rated for lures 1/4oz to 1oz, which is exactly the range I'm looking to use it with. Currently using with 15lbs braided line.

 

However, I'm finding that my casting distance sucks with this rod. I haven't thrown anything really heavy on it yet, but distance with a Zara Spook is only 'ok' and distance with a spinnerbait or buzz bait is poor at best. FWIW, I'm doing my casting sitting in a solo canoe.

 

I guess my question is, what would work best for what I am doing:

• Should I have gotten a longer rod, a lighter rod, a medium-fast rod?
• Or is this lower-cost rod not going to perform as well, and I'd be better-off with a Fenwick HMG or St. Croix Mojo Yak?
• Or maybe I could improve my casting technique with such a stiff rod?
• Or, would a casting reel/rod be significantly better casting larger lures longer distances? (I'm not ready to go there yet, but maybe next year).

[jbsoonerfan]

Pretty heavy rod and pretty light line to be slinging 1/2 oz lures. I prefer casting setups for anything above about 3/16 oz, but I don't do a lot of finesse fishing so that's just what I am accustomed to.

[07Rapala]

Yeah, I realize most people use bait casters these days. I haven't been serious about fishing for about 25 years. Back when I was a teen I bought a Quantum bait caster and tried to get good with it, but I remember just struggling with short casts and bird nests. I'm just slowly wading back into thing this year so, not ready to take the time to learn something new yet. Just want to focus on catching fish for now. Maybe next year, but not yet.

[PhishLI]

25 minutes ago, 07Rapala said:

I bought a Stradic 3000 reel and a 7' Fenwick Eagle Heavy, fast-action rod, which is rated for lures 1/4oz to 1oz,

The rod's probably not helping your cause if it's a true heavy fast. I can throw a full size spook a bleedin' mile using a Tatula XT 7' MF/Tatula LT3000 CXH spooled with 15lb PP Super Slick. How's the reel spooled? Filled right up to the lip?

[FrnkNsteen]

My personal opinion is I don't like throwing very heavy rigs with a spinning rod. The reason for me isn't that the rod won't handle it, it's because holding/releasing the line with that heavy of a lure while trying to properly load a heavy rod would wear on your finger pretty quick.

 

I have a couple medium action Eagle rods and like them, but I don't know that I would enjoy casting a heavy action rod with that heavy of a rig. I would think thin 15lb braid would want to cut into your finger pretty good with heavier lures!

 

My guess is you just aren't loading that rod up well enough to get good distance.

[bulldog1935]

this is easy. 

What you want to do is order a JDM 3000MHG spool, and load it with either 10-lb Sufix 832 braid, or a good JDM braid in PE#1.2, such as YGK Bornrush or Varivas Avanti (the X-braids will be 25-lb test). 

This is a shallow spool made just for braid, and will hold 150 m of the lines I listed - what you gain with this spool is perfect line lay. 

Casting problem solved. 

This answer means something. 

https://www.hedgehog-studio.co.jp/product/4580

Unfortunately, hedgehog doesn't sell line, but you can get the spool and Varivas line both from https://www.plat.co.jp/

My Twin Power 3000MHG with the YGK Bornrush is a rocketship (7'3" salt MH)

Essentially casting the same weight range, and on a particularly good rod. 

One thing you must learn casting braid is manual bail technique, so your line is tight before you begin retrieve. 

Generally, I only fish spinning in the dark, since likely can't see the lure land. 

I'd be throwing a Spook before first light with this.

I'll also add this rod has the moderate tip that both casts and fishes topwaters best (rated 1/8 to 7/8 oz). 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

What king of distance are you getting and what’s your goal? You should expect spinners and  chatters to not cast as well as others. Is your reel spooled fully and tightly? There’s things to look at before jumping to a rod switch. 

[Deleted account]

2 hours ago, 07Rapala said:

I am just getting back into fishing and am mostly focused on finesse techniques. I have been a long-time spinning reel user and I'm not yet ready to learn something new in a baitcasting reel.

 

So I wanted a little heavier spinning reel to handle bigger lures like spinner baits, jerk baits, pike spoons, etc. I bought a Stradic 3000 reel and a 7' Fenwick Eagle Heavy, fast-action rod, which is rated for lures 1/4oz to 1oz, which is exactly the range I'm looking to use it with. Currently using with 15lbs braided line.

 

However, I'm finding that my casting distance sucks with this rod. I haven't thrown anything really heavy on it yet, but distance with a Zara Spook is only 'ok' and distance with a spinnerbait or buzz bait is poor at best. FWIW, I'm doing my casting sitting in a solo canoe.

 

I guess my question is, what would work best for what I am doing:

• Should I have gotten a longer rod, a lighter rod, a medium-fast rod?
• Or is this lower-cost rod not going to perform as well, and I'd be better-off with a Fenwick HMG or St. Croix Mojo Yak?
• Or maybe I could improve my casting technique with such a stiff rod?
• Or, would a casting reel/rod be significantly better casting larger lures longer distances? (I'm not ready to go there yet, but maybe next year).

The rod doesn't suck, but it isn't really suited to most bass applications. I wouldn't try to cast lures much under 1/2 oz on it. Why you would have trouble casting a spook with anything is a mystery to me...

[islandbass]

2 hours ago, 07Rapala said:

I am just getting back into fishing and am mostly focused on finesse techniques. I have been a long-time spinning reel user and I'm not yet ready to learn something new in a baitcasting reel.

 

So I wanted a little heavier spinning reel to handle bigger lures like spinner baits, jerk baits, pike spoons, etc. I bought a Stradic 3000 reel and a 7' Fenwick Eagle Heavy, fast-action rod, which is rated for lures 1/4oz to 1oz, which is exactly the range I'm looking to use it with. Currently using with 15lbs braided line.

 

However, I'm finding that my casting distance sucks with this rod. I haven't thrown anything really heavy on it yet, but distance with a Zara Spook is only 'ok' and distance with a spinnerbait or buzz bait is poor at best. FWIW, I'm doing my casting sitting in a solo canoe.

 

I guess my question is, what would work best for what I am doing:

• Should I have gotten a longer rod, a lighter rod, a medium-fast rod?
• Or is this lower-cost rod not going to perform as well, and I'd be better-off with a Fenwick HMG or St. Croix Mojo Yak?
• Or maybe I could improve my casting technique with such a stiff rod?
• Or, would a casting reel/rod be significantly better casting larger lures longer distances? (I'm not ready to go there yet, but maybe next year).

One of the downsides of spinning gear is that long time users rarely ever develop sound casting mechanics because these is no serious penalty for poor mechanics, other than poor casting distance.
 

This is the first thing I would check. Make sure that the weight of your lure is properly loading the rod. Given the specs of your rod and line, I can not see why casting would be bad unless the mechanics aren’t sound. 

[king fisher]

Of course it is the rod.  Can't possibly be the angler.  When a reporter asked Yogi Berra about being in a batting slump, he answered I don't feel like I am in a slump, it must be the bat.

Same reasoning works for golf clubs, shot guns, and of course fishing rods.

[Ppennin986]

Sounds to me like not enough line on the spool

Im not great at baitcasters so I use my spinning rods a lot 

[07Rapala]

4 hours ago, islandbass said:

This is the first thing I would check. Make sure that the weight of your lure is properly loading the rod. Given the specs of your rod and line, I can not see why casting would be bad unless the mechanics aren’t sound. 

Can you explain this a little more?

I will say that I can cast these sorts of lures just fine with my Sedona 1500 reel on a 6.5' Fenwick HMX medium-heavy (rated for 1/4 to 3/4oz lures) medium-fast rod. So I don't think its 'spinning reels' per se.  I do recognize a casting reel may be better.

 

King Fisher, yes "technique" is m bullet point #3 up there. I realize it could be me.

 

I'll check how-much line is spooled on there in the AM.

[PhishLI]

22 minutes ago, 07Rapala said:

I'll check how-much line is spooled on there in the AM.

If your spool isn't filled, or if it's a bit low, the line will be fighting its way off. Spool lip friction becomes a bigger factor as line gets deeper on the spool on a cast and from re-tying.,@bulldog1935 has better pics of a filled spool than this old existing attachment shown here, but this is the idea,

[bulldog1935]

@PhishLI again, this is a braid-specific spool (C2000S) for 100 m PE#0.8 or 150 m PE#0.6 - it's loaded with about 100 yds 6-lb Sufix 832

 

 

it's filled to where the line is flush with your fingernail coming out of the line-keeper groove. 

You can only get this with a braid spool. 

 

for catching these and never had a wind knot over about 200 of these

 

I'd put fluoro on the stock spool. 

 

@07Rapala that's not over-filled - looks about right and surprisingly flat for the deep spool.  (Shimano does this better than Daiwa, and Daiwa is no slouch). 

[PhishLI]

11 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

again, this is a braid-specific spool

Yes, I understand that point. I bought my shallow spool CXH for the same reason, and not the deeper D version. P.S. I've gotten exactly 1 wind knot in 4 years. My fault throwing an elaztec french fry and allowed loose spooling.

[islandbass]

5 hours ago, 07Rapala said:

Can you explain this a little more?

I will say that I can cast these sorts of lures just fine with my Sedona 1500 reel on a 6.5' Fenwick HMX medium-heavy (rated for 1/4 to 3/4oz lures) medium-fast rod. So I don't think its 'spinning reels' per se.  I do recognize a casting reel may be better.

 

King Fisher, yes "technique" is m bullet point #3 up there. I realize it could be me.

 

I'll check how-much line is spooled on there in the AM.

Sure! As long as you are ensuring that the weight of the lure is loading the rod tip such that the rod tip then catapaults your lure toward your target, then you are good to go, assuming that the rod’s lure range rating is accurate and the weight of the lure is within that range. This is what I meant by the mechanics. Sometimes anglers using spinning gear whip the rod forward before the lure even had a chance to load the rod tip. You will usually hear the whipping of the rod as it whizzes by your ear before the rod tip ever got loaded. Speaking from experience on this. If this is done with a casting rod, you are likely going to earn a bird’s nest without an educated thumb. Cast, whip, sleepy thumb, nest, lol.  
 

The braid you are using is pretty thin so that probably isn’t the culprit and neither should the 3000 spool. 3000 sized spools are large compared to a 1500 and by nature should be excellent in contributing to long casts. This trait however is diminished if the spool is not at optimum capacity. 
 

With that said, there could be other reasons like maybe what you perceive as a short cast really is not a short cast for the rig. As a shore angler, sometimes I think this, lol. Or maybe the rod, despite the stated lure ratings, is more powerful. It might say 1/4 oz lure on the low side but 1/4oz might not load the rod tip well. This might be it since you mentioned you don’t have this issue with your other spinning rods. Hope you figure it. I believe a rod with those specs is a keeper. 

A casting reel is not going to necessarily be better. In that weight range both spinning and casting should perform quite well such that the choice to use one over the other is angler choice not one being truly superior to the other. 
 

If you decide to go down the casting rabbit hole, since you’ve been using spinning gear primarily, I highly recommend you buy a casting reel whose handle is on the same side as your spinning reels. I’ll bet you a size 5 floating Rapala minnow and a skitter pop on this. My first bass was caught on a Rapala so they have a special place in my heart, lol.

[07Rapala]

It may be a bit over-spooled, but I haven't had any issues with birds nests or anything like that.

8 hours ago, PhishLI said:

Yes, I understand that point. I bought my shallow spool CXH for the same reason, and not the deeper D version. P.S. I've gotten exactly 1 wind knot in 4 years. My fault throwing an elaztec french fry and allowed loose spooling.

Yeah, I wish I knew about those a couple weeks ago. Already bought a spare reel (for $60, they used to come free with the reel!... but I digress). Had to order from Japan (or Taiwan?) because there was no stock in the us. Its still on the slow boat over here.

 

Can I get the same effect by starting to spool the rod with cheap monofilament and then finishing the last ~100yrds with braid?

[07Rapala]

4 hours ago, islandbass said:

Sure! As long as you are ensuring that the weight of the lure is loading the rod tip such that the rod tip then catapaults your lure toward your target,

Thanks islandbass, Once I got up in the morning and had a fresh brain, your first post made more sense. I have starting to recognize that I may not be loading optimally with each cast (and now I know the term for it!). I also bought a light, medium-action, rod recently to try out with lighter lures and was having trouble with it at first as well. I soon realized that I have been using pretty similar rods for a long time and need to adapt my technique somewhat for rods with different characteristics. 

 

Again, I may have some to  improve on the technique, but I suspect the rod is too stiff to load well with these medium-weight lures. I'm pretty convinced I need a different rod for what I am doing. I am trying to figure out if a better quality (or just more expensive?) rod would improve things or if I just need to step down a notch on the rod power, or up a bit on length. My suspicion is that a better rod would be more sensitive and durable, but not necessary cast any better, all things considered. Or might a better rod cast better too?

[PhishLI]

On 6/8/2022 at 9:06 AM, 07Rapala said:

Can I get the same effect by starting to spool the rod with cheap monofilament and then finishing the last ~100yrds with braid?

You can, and I do use backing, but I use braid. I have about a mile of 50lb I use for backing on just about every reel I own. However, I use 200 feet of mainline. Once it gets a little low for my liking I remove it, add some more backing, then respool it. back on. The upshot of using braid for backing is that the connection knot to the mainline is less bulky than if you choose heavier mono as a backer.

[casts_by_fly]

4 hours ago, 07Rapala said:

It may be a bit over-spooled, but I haven't had any issues with birds nests or anything like that.

Yeah, I wish I knew about those a couple weeks ago. Already bought a spare reel (for $60, they used to come free with the reel!... but I digress). Had to order from Japan (or Taiwan?) because there was no stock in the us. Its still on the slow boat over here.

 

Can I get the same effect by starting to spool the rod with cheap monofilament and then finishing the last ~100yrds with braid?

 

 

The reel and line looks fine.  You didn't say how far you were getting in distance now or what you were expecting to get, but a 1/2 oz spook on 15 lb braid and a spinning rod is a 50 yard casting setup easily.

 

I think you've gotten to the answer though.  You're used to casting a 1/4-3/4 MHMF.  I actually have the 7' version of that rod sitting right next to me.  You're then moving to a faster and also more powerful HF.  That HF takes a lot of lure speed (or weight) to load up.  if you do, it will fling a bait.  Next time you're out, try pendulum casting it.  Its a saltwater technique originally to cast from the surf where you have almost a rod length of line past the tip.  You start with the rod vertical, pendulum the bait forward, then backward and overhead in one smooth motion.  Do that with a 1/2 oz spook and its going to fly.  That will also give you a feel for how much the rod needs to properly load up on a cast.

[islandbass]

17 hours ago, 07Rapala said:

Thanks islandbass, Once I got up in the morning and had a fresh brain, your first post made more sense. I have starting to recognize that I may not be loading optimally with each cast (and now I know the term for it!). I also bought a light, medium-action, rod recently to try out with lighter lures and was having trouble with it at first as well. I soon realized that I have been using pretty similar rods for a long time and need to adapt my technique somewhat for rods with different characteristics. 

 

Again, I may have some to  improve on the technique, but I suspect the rod is too stiff to load well with these medium-weight lures. I'm pretty convinced I need a different rod for what I am doing. I am trying to figure out if a better quality (or just more expensive?) rod would improve things or if I just need to step down a notch on the rod power, or up a bit on length. My suspicion is that a better rod would be more sensitive and durable, but not necessary cast any better, all things considered. Or might a better rod cast better too?

Your suspicions are correct in my book.  I am inclined to suspect the rod is more powerful than the ratings suggest. Nothing wrong with that or the rod. It does however, give your bait monkey the excuse to start dropping hints on another rod to add to the arsenal, lol. 

[RDB]

I don’t know anything about Fenwick rods but I would absolutely not be using a heavy fast rod and braid with treble hook baits, especially jerk baits (I don’t know anything about pike spoons).  Since you like spinning, it looks to me like you may have found your jig rod.

[PhishLI]

On 6/8/2022 at 9:26 AM, 07Rapala said:

I have starting to recognize that I may not be loading optimally with each cast (and now I know the term for it!).

This will come with time and experience, and now that you have the language you'll be able to fully grasp the concept. Once you've processed this, eventually you won't even have to think about it at all. You'll auto-calibrate by the bait's loading of the rod with it simply hanging off the rod's tip before the cast. You'll automatically adjust the proper length of the lure's drop from the tip, the energy of the cast, and your release point. It'll all come together, then it'll be executed unconsciously. Sort of like walking.

 

All of that, while important, is generally less important with spinning gear. You can often fudge it along here with less than optimal bait to rod mixes, but it becomes quite important if you make the move to bait casters and you'd like to avoid being a backlash machine, and inaccurate during target casting.

[flyfisher]

On 6/7/2022 at 7:04 PM, islandbass said:

One of the downsides of spinning gear is that long time users rarely ever develop sound casting mechanics because these is no serious penalty for poor mechanics, other than poor casting distance.
 

What casting mechanics are you talking about as I have never heard this before in relation to spinning rod users. 

[PhishLI]

8 hours ago, flyfisher said:

What casting mechanics are you talking

I won't speak for @islandbass, but I've witnessed plenty of guys casting spinning rods who looked like Liberace, minus the fabulous capes, trying to swat an insect with a badminton racquet.