which floro leader line to defend against pike?

[07Rapala]

I'd like to try out some fluorocarbon leader to defend my lures against pike as I don't like the way effect the moment of certain lures. Can I just buy 25 yards (or similar) of ~50lbs floro line and tie my own leaders? I'm having a hard time finding heavy leader line, outside of  pre-made leaders that have the snaps and swivels that I'd rather avoid. Can anyone recommend anything in particular?

[MN Fisher]

Forget the rest - go with the best

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/seaguar-gold-label-fluorocarbon-leader

[A-Jay]

Losing baits to pike is a bummer and a regular thing here unfortunately. 

Donated one of my favor/most effective Megabass Jerkbaits

just the other day.

Hate it.

I tie my own leaders with this 

And while a FC leader seems to work in a pinch, 

there's a fine line between effective bite protection diameter needed and

not jacking up the action of a bait; especially a shallow and or suspending jerkbait.

The AFW product is & has been the best option for me.

It can 'weigh' a bait down a little so there's that.

A-Jay

 

 

[J Francho]

You generally have to go over 60# to get decent protection.  As was mentioned, that can kill the action.  A tieable steel leader is an option as well.  I've used Cortland Toothy Critter with success.

[gim]

I use Seaguar Blue Label in 20 or 30 pound test.  I primarily used 20 pound test last season, but its not quite as thick or durable as 30 pound, so 30 is what I'm using this season.  Its also more difficult to tie knots with but its working so far.

 

I won't use steel leaders unless I'm specifically targeting muskies or pike.  I am of the opinion that a steel leader will inhibit the action of smaller bass lures, and therefore reduce bites.  Additionally, in relatively clear water, I think bass can see that glistening shiny steel and it may also reduce bites that way too.

 

Losing a megabass jerk bait like @A-Jay would be painful lol.  I'd either swear or cry.  My solution is to just avoid using those expensive things in pike-infested waters and use a less expensive rapala version or something similar.

 

At some point, you're probably just going to have to accept the fact that some of your lures will either be ruined, shredded, or completely lost due to the teeth on these aggressive, voracious pike.  Sometimes its just part of doing business here in the northern tier of the country.

[A-Jay]

31 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Losing a megabass jerk bait like @A-Jay would be painful lol.  I'd either swear or cry.  

 

And I do - a little just about every time.

Strangely,  my waters aren't exactly pike infested.

Unless I fish without a wire leader ~ ?

As for the wire reducing bites.

I chose to lean the other way on that.

So did both of these fine ladies. 

A-Jay

[07Rapala]

1 hour ago, MN Fisher said:

Forget the rest - go with the best

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/seaguar-gold-label-fluorocarbon-leader

That stuff is SOOOO Expensive though. There has to be a lower-priced option. Then again, I guess for $30 I'd have a lifetime supply of leaders. Can you tie a knot with it or is it too thick?

From what I am hearing, sufficiently thick Floro will also kill lure action, but has the advantage of being harder to see at the expense of not guaranteeing the fish still won't bite it off. Is that right?

 

My situation is that in the last couple weeks I've hooked muskies twice, once caught the hook at the edge of his mouth and I was able to land her, and the other bit me off (just a senko so no great loss).  When I go up north the water in gin-clear and has a lot more pike.

 

I would like to have landed that second fish, and I'd also like to target pike and small muskies if I can, but based on how the leader effects the lure, I'd be limited to spoons, spinners and some crank baits that are little effected by a leader.

[gim]

1 hour ago, A-Jay said:

Strangely,  my waters aren't exactly pike infested.

 

Ya the bigger water you fish for brownies likely isn't pike infested.  I've seen some of your videos on a smaller lake in the canoe and those definitely are though!

[waymont]

10 hours ago, 07Rapala said:

I'd like to try out some fluorocarbon leader to defend my lures against pike as I don't like the way effect the moment of certain lures. Can I just buy 25 yards (or similar) of ~50lbs floro line and tie my own leaders? I'm having a hard time finding heavy leader line, outside of  pre-made leaders that have the snaps and swivels that I'd rather avoid. Can anyone recommend anything in particular?

I use 30 and 40lb Seagur Blue label as leaders with great success. However, I am talking about 20"-32" pike in general. I have never had one bite off, but I can see a bigger pike biting off that size leader. I just got back from a two week fishing trip in Michigan, and tried out A Jay's recommendation of the AFW line as a leader and had excellent luck with that too.

[casts_by_fly]

You can use a loop knot and/or split ring to help get some of the action back from stiff leaders.  Also if you get into crimped leaders instead of knots that helps similarly.  

[J Francho]

49 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

Also if you get into crimped leaders instead of knots that helps similarly. 

This is THE deal.

[casts_by_fly]

25 minutes ago, J Francho said:

This is THE deal.

 

Got a preference for a 'starter kit' for someone that wants to do it?  I have my preferences, but I'm not up on the latest since mine were from when I was fly fishing 15+ years ago.

[J Francho]

I've had my stuff a lot longer, lol.  AFW has a reasonable starter crimp kit at $20.  Or you can go all the way up to a HiSeas for $130.  

[gim]

14 hours ago, waymont said:

I use 30 and 40lb Seagur Blue label as leaders with great success.

 

I'm currently using 30 and the knot tying with it is somewhat difficult.  How the heck are you able to tie knots using the 40 pound?  It seems pretty stiff even at the 30 pound.

[Further North]

On 6/6/2022 at 12:51 PM, 07Rapala said:

That stuff is SOOOO Expensive though. There has to be a lower-priced option. Then again, I guess for $30 I'd have a lifetime supply of leaders. Can you tie a knot with it or is it too thick?

From what I am hearing, sufficiently thick Floro will also kill lure action, but has the advantage of being harder to see at the expense of not guaranteeing the fish still won't bite it off. Is that right?

 

My situation is that in the last couple weeks I've hooked muskies twice, once caught the hook at the edge of his mouth and I was able to land her, and the other bit me off (just a senko so no great loss).  When I go up north the water in gin-clear and has a lot more pike.

 

I would like to have landed that second fish, and I'd also like to target pike and small muskies if I can, but based on how the leader effects the lure, I'd be limited to spoons, spinners and some crank baits that are little effected by a leader.

If you want to land pike and musky wire - or very, very stout fluorocarbon, like 80# or higher - are your only real choices.

Tieable wire is the best choice.

I fish almost all my subsurface rigs (with the exception of inexpensive stuff like Senkos and Ned Rigs) with wire and still catch hundreds of bass a year.

...you can pick colors other than silver, or even color the leader with a marker to reduce visibility if it really bugs you.

I connect the wire directly to braid with an FG knot (or an Alberto Knot for single strand like Knot-2-Kinky, then tie in a Mustad Fastach clip (swivel or not, depends on the lure) at the business end with a perfection loop.

If my connection is mono to wire (like my fly rod leaders) it's always an Alberto to the wire.

I've had many of these rigs last a full season, or more, and I pretty much can't fish a day without running into toothy critters.

On 6/7/2022 at 10:25 AM, casts_by_fly said:

You can use a loop knot and/or split ring to help get some of the action back from stiff leaders.  Also if you get into crimped leaders instead of knots that helps similarly.  

I am curious how a crimped leader is better than a leader tied directly into the main line?

[J Francho]

8 hours ago, Further North said:

I am curious how a crimped leader is better than a leader tied directly into the main line?

I don't know if I'd say it's better, but it's easier.

[Further North]

3 hours ago, J Francho said:

I don't know if I'd say it's better, but it's easier.

I think I know what you mean, but I can have a new piece of tieable wire tied on, with a clip on the end in less than 5 minutes.

[J Francho]

Five minutes is a long time when you're drifting around in a kayak.  But yes, I do like tieable wire better.  It's something I rig up before I'm on the water.

[casts_by_fly]

12 hours ago, Further North said:

If you want to land pike and musky wire - or very, very stout fluorocarbon, like 80# or higher - are your only real choices.

Tieable wire is the best choice.

I fish almost all my subsurface rigs (with the exception of inexpensive stuff like Senkos and Ned Rigs) with wire and still catch hundreds of bass a year.

...you can pick colors other than silver, or even color the leader with a marker to reduce visibility if it really bugs you.

I connect the wire directly to braid with an FG knot (or an Alberto Knot for single strand like Knot-2-Kinky, then tie in a Mustad Fastach clip (swivel or not, depends on the lure) at the business end with a perfection loop.

If my connection is mono to wire (like my fly rod leaders) it's always an Alberto to the wire.

I've had many of these rigs last a full season, or more, and I pretty much can't fish a day without running into toothy critters.

I am curious how a crimped leader is better than a leader tied directly into the main line?

 

I meant from leader to hook, not to mainline.  A crimped loop will help get action back into the lure and let it swing more freely on the wire or stiff fluoro.  Same as a loop knot, but easier to do in the heavy stuff.  If you're fishing with a snap then the difference won't really matter.

[Further North]

16 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

I meant from leader to hook, not to mainline.  A crimped loop will help get action back into the lure and let it swing more freely on the wire or stiff fluoro.  Same as a loop knot, but easier to do in the heavy stuff.  If you're fishing with a snap then the difference won't really matter.

Thanks for clarifying.  I use a Perfection Loop almost exclusively as it's easy to tie, strong, and stays straight in line with the line.

I use Fastach clips to make changing lures/flies easy and fast, and I don't have to sacrifice a couple inches of bite guard for every change.  Without the clip I'd be trying in a new bite guard a couple times a day, minimum.

The combination of the loop and the clip (assuming the clip is of appropriate size) gives the lure/fly all the action it has out of the box.

55 minutes ago, J Francho said:

Five minutes is a long time when you're drifting around in a kayak.  But yes, I do like tieable wire better.  It's something I rig up before I'm on the water.

That's how I'd do it.  My fly leaders are pre-tied and in the side pocket of my sling-pack ready to go on the water.  That's a 30-second change.

 

The smallest watercraft you'll find me in is my drift boat; maybe my buddy's raft.  If I needed to swap a leader/bite guard, I'd anchor up, make the swap and go back to fishing.  That might not work in a kayak.

When I read your post, I had the immediate thought that I could rig for loop-to-loop connections and pre-tie the wire bite guards, even on my gear rigs, and have a half dozen ready to go at any time.

 

[Dogface]

On 6/7/2022 at 1:23 PM, gimruis said:

 

I'm currently using 30 and the knot tying with it is somewhat difficult.  How the heck are you able to tie knots using the 40 pound?  It seems pretty stiff even at the 30 pound.

 

 

I usually use the Palomar (and pliers) on heavy leaders and do not have any issues but as others have suggested tieable wire is easier and works as well.  I have 10, 20 and 40 lb. 

[michaelb]

Not sure i have all the answers but i have tried and use several flouro options. 
 

i make leaders with 80 abrazx using crimps. Those have a coastlock snap on one end and a swivel on the other. I haven’t had one fail and they hold up well; i worry about hooking a musky since most folks go heavier there. I really like being able to grab the heavy leader when landing a fish. This is my pike rig for trolling and spinnerbaits; i have caught tons of bass too. 
 

i also have 40 sunline leader with an fg knot (it took lots of practice). That is 4-5’ long and i connect with a sd jam knot. The sunline handles much softer then seagar blue and ties nicely. This my main rig for bass and pike and haven’t had a pike go through this yet. I retie after each pike because i can feel nicks in the line. 
 

i also have seagar blue in 40 and now 50. I could never tie it reliably and so use crimps. I will add a 10” leader section to a hook, like for a paddle tail and then tie that  to my main line. Mastering the fg makes this less useful but it works too.