Need help with the concept of a rod’s sweet spot

[5/0]

Generally speaking can this be determined based on the rod’s lure weight rating? If so, would it be somewhere at the midpoint? Or is it a personal preference thing based on how the user casts the rod; where the sweet spot may be either on the lower or higher end of the rating?

 

[casts_by_fly]

Sweet spot is a nebulous term that you’ll never get from specs. It is entirely personal preference.  For instance, a direct example from tonight. I fish a lot of 1/2 oz chatterbaits, usually with a zako on the back. I also fish falcon rods.  I started with bucoo sr series last year and have upgraded most to the equivalent expert series this year. I have the 6’10” 1/4-3/4 heavy and the 7’ 3/8-1 heavy rods in both the bucoo and expert. I also have the 7’ 1/4-3/4 MH in the Bucoo and the 6’10” 1/4-3/4 MH expert.  They all throw the same 1/2 oz chatterbait just fine.  HOW they do it and what they feel like are very different. The higher modulus rods (expert) have a lot more ‘jump’ to them and the bait just seems to fly that much further for a given cast. The faster action 6’10” rods flex a lot less than the 7’ MF rods.  But then put the same lure on the MH F where it might be a touch too heavy for the blank and the blank comes alive.  Since it’s a very responsive higher modulus blank it can handle the extra weight and feels great. Also remember falcon rods are considered slightly ‘under’ for a given rating. So a MH is on the lighter end of MH, a 6 power heavy is closer to a MH from some, etc. So for a given lure/bait there are no guarantees based on the rod spec.

 

Generally a total bait weight in the middle of the range is a good guide, but finding the true sweet spot for a given rod depends on so many factors that include personal preference that you just have to start casting.

 

thanks

rick

[Deleted account]

Generally speaking, yes, somewhere in the middle of the stated range, but weight is just one factor, the balance and aerodynamics of the lure has a lot to do with it, and as you alluded to, the casting ability and technique plays into it as well.

[Deleted account]

8 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

Sweet spot is a nebulous term that you’ll never get from specs. It is entirely personal preference.  For instance, a direct example from tonight. I fish a lot of 1/2 oz chatterbaits, usually with a zako on the back. I also fish falcon rods.  I started with bucoo sr series last year and have upgraded most to the equivalent expert series this year. I have the 6’10” 1/4-3/4 heavy and the 7’ 3/8-1 heavy rods in both the bucoo and expert. I also have the 7’ 1/4-3/4 MH in the Bucoo and the 6’10” 1/4-3/4 MH expert.  They all throw the same 1/2 oz chatterbait just fine.  HOW they do it and what they feel like are very different. The higher modulus rods (expert) have a lot more ‘jump’ to them and the bait just seems to fly that much further for a given cast. The faster action 6’10” rods flex a lot less than the 7’ MF rods.  But then put the same lure on the MH F where it might be a touch too heavy for the blank and the blank comes alive.  Since it’s a very responsive higher modulus blank it can handle the extra weight and feels great. Also remember falcon rods are considered slightly ‘under’ for a given rating. So a MH is on the lighter end of MH, a 6 power heavy is closer to a MH from some, etc. So for a given lure/bait there are no guarantees based on the rod spec.

 

Generally a total bait weight in the middle of the range is a good guide, but finding the true sweet spot for a given rod depends on so many factors that include personal preference that you just have to start casting.

 

thanks

rick

Each time I read this I toggle between either you or I being confused...

[JohnFromLisbon]

For me it's throwing something that is just heavy enough for the rod do bend properly and throw it accurately, but still light enough that you can easily impart action with the rod tip.

 

I'll give you an example, my main football jig rod, the 844 MBR. A 1/2oz football jig with a light trailer (say a 5" DT grub or a Rage Chunk) is the sweet spot. Can I cast 1/4oz jigs with even smaller trailers? Absolutely. Will it cast them as well? Probably not because it won't bend as deep on the cast. Will I be able to use the rod tip's bend as I drag it to see exactly what the jig is doing on the bottom and maybe even visually detect a subtle bite or two? Probably, but it will be too light to get an accurate picture of what's going on. On the other end of the spectrum, I will be able to cast a 3/4oz jig with no issues, but any dragging motion will extend the rod tip beyond what a 1/2oz jig would and it becomes harder to tell what's going on down there.

 

It can do a lot and throw a wide range of weights and baits with a rating from 1/4 to 1oz, but for the way I use it that 1/2oz is the sweet spot.

[casts_by_fly]

1 hour ago, Deleted account said:

Each time I read this I toggle between either you or I being confused...

 

I'm still pretty clear in what I typed last night after rereading it this morning, so it must be you.  Let me simplify it down to my first and last comments:

 

Sweet spot is a nebulous term that you’ll never get from specs. It is entirely personal preference. .... So for a given lure/bait there are no guarantees based on the rod spec.

 

Thanks

rick

 

[Tatulatard]

A 1/2 oz hunk of lead on a hook with a blade, a skirt and a zako trailer is going to be pushing 1oz.  I wouldn't want a MH for that let alone a M.  If that MH is rated up to 1 1/2 oz then sure but most top out at 1oz.  Useable sure, but outside the sweetspot.

[casts_by_fly]

3 minutes ago, Tatulatard said:

A 1/2 oz hunk of lead on a hook with a blade, a skirt and a zako trailer is going to be pushing 1oz.  I wouldn't want a MH for that let alone a M.  If that MH is rated up to 1 1/2 oz then sure but most top out at 1oz.  Useable sure, but outside the sweetspot.

 

its about 7/8oz total weight last one I weighed.  The particular rod I referred to is a 1/4-3/4 MH F rating and it just eats up casting that CB/Zako combo.  Short casts, long casts, it will pinpoint them.  It does fine with a 1/2 oz total weight bait as well, but a little extra weight seems 'sweeter' on this rod.  The next power up in the same length and rod series is also rated 1/4-3/4 but H F.  The same lure doesn't feel as good in casting.  It works just fine, but it isn't the sweet spot for that rod.  Same lure weight rating, same action rating.  You'd think the MH would be overpowered and the H would be better but that isn't the case for me.  My point is, what feels best for a given rod is entirely personal preference and you're not going to get that straight from a spec.  

 

thanks,

rick

[WRB]

Sweet spot depends on your casting skill and technique.

The faster the rods action the narrower the casting release zone becomes, the slower action broaden release zone.

With most bass rods the lure rating are simply a suggestion. Lure weights are rarely accurate as printed on the package

Heavy swimbait rods the nominal (mid range) weights on the rod are important because swimbaits weigh in ounces not grams.

Tom

[scaleface]

This just relates to me . When I'm casting a lure underhanded or a roll cast , The lure weight is critical . To heavy it is launched to the right of target . To light to the left . My 7 foot mh moderte/fast spinnerbait rod for example ,  the sweet-spot is a 1/2 ounce lure . If casting overhand and not for accuracy , a wider range of weights can be used but with low trajectory and precision casting, the  weight  has  to be exact . Its the difference between catching a few bass  or a few dozen .

[5/0]

Thanks for all the information! All brought up some very good points. What all of you alluded to was that experience and skill help you navigate through the many ratings across different manufacturers when picking a rod for certain applications. I am no where near that level yet, but it fascinates me how you all are able to handle all the variables when picking the right tool for the job!

Thanks again!

 

 

 

[FrnkNsteen]

For me,.... I can't say I rely too much on a rods lure ratings, other than being a starting point for what I might want to use it for.

 

I've got various rods with the same rating that act completly different. For instance,... I've got multiple rods that are called MH-Fast and rated for 1/4 - 1oz. Some are obviously heftier than others. Some have a little more or less tip than others.

 

I initially judge them by putting a reel on them and feel the weight, balance anf flex. Then if they pass the feel test and I decide to buy, I rig them up with different rigs and see what works best for me. If I like the feel of a rig, I can always find a particular setup I like. If not, it's usually because I jumped into buying it without checking it out fully.

[Bankc]

Throw a bunch of different lures at a bunch of different weights, and you'll figure it out.  It'll cast easiest at some point.  And it doesn't all have to do with the weight of the lure.  Some of it has to do with how fast you whip that rod.  But once you hit the sweet spot, you'll notice you get maximum distance with minimal effort.  

 

There's some science behind it that helps to explain it all, but since there's no agreed upon standard for rod specifications in the industry, it doesn't do much good to stare hard at the numbers and try to math all of that out.  So it's best to just take those printed rod specs as a generalized starting point, and put your trust in your own personal experience to make the final decision on where any given rod casts best.  

[casts_by_fly]

2 hours ago, 5/0 said:

Thanks for all the information! All brought up some very good points. What all of you alluded to was that experience and skill help you navigate through the many ratings across different manufacturers when picking a rod for certain applications. I am no where near that level yet, but it fascinates me how you all are able to handle all the variables when picking the right tool for the job!

Thanks again!

 

 

Yeah, you just have to start casting and find what works for you.  One way to simplify things is to stick with a particular brand.  At least within a brand the ratings are normally consistent.  I went Falcon and I have a pretty good idea what any of their rods are going to feel like now.  I can buy blind and be confident in what I'm getting.

 

[5/0]

1 minute ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

Yeah, you just have to start casting and find what works for you.  One way to simplify things is to stick with a particular brand.  At least within a brand the ratings are normally consistent.  I went Falcon and I have a pretty good idea what any of their rods are going to feel like now.  I can buy blind and be confident in what I'm getting.

 

Thinking about it, this may be the road to go down. Of course when you’re shooting the breeze with your buddies and a guy says “Man I just bought this new XYZ rod and it sure is great, it would blow the doors off your ABC model.” That’s when the Bait Simian starts to whisper in your ear!?‍?

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The midrange of labeled specs is a good starting point but only time on the water can tell you for certain. Lure weight range, power, line rating and action are all subjective.