Difficulty Casting Braid / Leader Combo

[Unk]

19 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

Just use a shorter leader. I’ve been using 5’ when I need to put a leader on braid for some reason.

Thanks . I've been working with about 6 feet of leader .

10 hours ago, ATA said:

1- Make peace with it if it is necessary to use braid to leader with your FG knot

2- Go all the way fluorocarbon. InvizX and Tatsu are two I am using and loving them.

3- Use hallow core braid and splice the leader ?

Really like the Tatsu I use on my other spinning rig . Wanted to try AbrazX leader for rougher stuff . I'll have to brush the dust off my marlinspike seamanship  

[Unk]

3 hours ago, Bdnoble84 said:

Ive had this issue on a couple rods with microguides. On those i have to get the fg darn near perfectly wrapped with no bulges.

Thanks . I may end up having to lose the leader but , like you say , I may want to spend a little more time learning to tie the knot .

[dodgeguy]

25 minutes ago, Unk said:

Not going with mono on this rig . Trying AbrazX FC as leader .

Not familiar with this knot . Will Look it up > Thanks .

May have to . I really like the sensitivity of the braid though .

So use straight braid. It's all I use most of the time.

[BrianMDTX]

56 minutes ago, Unk said:

Not going with mono on this rig . Trying AbrazX FC as leader .

Not familiar with this knot . Will Look it up > Thanks .

May have to . I really like the sensitivity of the braid though .

@Unk I have been using the Lefty Kreh leader knot since I first started using braid-to-leader two years ago. I won’t say I’ve caught DD bass on them, but I have caught bass over 5 lbs and I’ve had zero problems. I’ve probably caught well over 100 bass on my wacky rig (20 lb. Sufix 832 to 8 lb. YZH leader) and it’s still going strong. I snagged a TR from the bank once and had to break it off. The leader broke at the Palomar knot; the leader knot held (I replaced the entire leader after that just to be safe). It takes 30 seconds to tie. You just have to cut your leader to length first as you have to pull the tag end of the braid and all the leader through the loop. 

[PressuredFishing]

You have three options....

1. Shorten leader to 2-3 foot and cast with it outside the top guide

2. learn to tie the FG knot, however know that while all braid to leader guys make it sound romantic, its another weak spot in the line, it is another knot to tie, everyone is human and may get it wrong out on the water, and may result in loosing your biggest fish

3. switch to coplymer or florocarbon, or use straight braid if flipping,

 

P.S, anyone who says that the FG knot is just as reliable as one fishermans knot on straight mono and floro, they are either lying or not human because it is human to err on knots, expecially leader knots when in a rush, low light conditions, cold weather lowering fine motor skills, or just in general. but If they want to pay the extra buck for braid and fart around with a leader and schill  while bass are busting, go for it... more fish for me

[Bdnoble84]

24 minutes ago, PressuredFishing said:

You have three options....

1. Shorten leader to 2-3 foot and cast with it outside the top guide

2. learn to tie the FG knot, however know that while all braid to leader guys make it sound romantic, its another weak spot in the line, it is another knot to tie, everyone is human and may get it wrong out on the water, and may result in loosing your biggest fish

3. switch to coplymer or florocarbon, or use straight braid if flipping,

 

P.S, anyone who says that the FG knot is just as reliable as one fishermans knot on straight mono and floro, they are either lying or not human because it is human to err on knots, expecially leader knots when in a rush, low light conditions, cold weather lowering fine motor skills, or just in general. but If they want to pay the extra buck for braid and fart around with a leader and schill  while bass are busting, go for it... more fish for me

I will say my cost for like has gone down dramatically simply for the fact i do not have to change my mainline out with braid. I can get a couple years light use or a full year hard use. And i can adjust leader type based on conditions texhnique. I havent had an fg fail since getting proficient with it. So sure braid costs more but it lasts even longer when compared to braid or fluero. It doesnt take long to junk up mono fishing in rocky rivers with jigs and other bottom options. Plus i loose less jigs because of the sensitivity and lack of stretch. So i save money.

[CrashVector]

That's why I fish with straight braid.

 

Not willing to give up my micro-guided rods 

[PressuredFishing]

56 minutes ago, Bdnoble84 said:

havent had an fg fail since getting proficient with it.

Haven't doesn't mean it won't happen, even the pros break their leader knots all the time up north from accidents in tournaments for smb.

 

56 minutes ago, Bdnoble84 said:

will say my cost for like has gone down dramatically simply for the fact i do not have to change my mainline out with braid.

Has personally not been the case for me, 20$ for braid is costly even if does last me 3 seasons, I buy coplymers  for 10 bucks for 1000 yards, I can spool up 10 times, I only spool up 2-3 times a season if fishing rough abrasive cover multiple times a week. A 1000 yard spool of coplymer lasts me roughly 3 years, the same as my braided line but for half the cost, keeping my old braided line under 60lb is sketchy after it being over 3 years. I think the "braid saving money" may be a marketing phrase to a certain extent, and the coplymer I use is pretty good izorlines, but you can buy a 700 yard spool of zebco omniflex for 2 dollars that works just fine having a 10lb strength for 12lb line with a clinch knot, and a diameter of 15lb high end monos.

[Bdnoble84]

1 hour ago, PressuredFishing said:

Haven't doesn't mean it won't happen, even the pros break their leader knots all the time up north from accidents in tournaments for smb.

 

Has personally not been the case for me, 20$ for braid is costly even if does last me 3 seasons, I buy coplymers  for 10 bucks for 1000 yards, I can spool up 10 times, I only spool up 2-3 times a season if fishing rough abrasive cover multiple times a week. A 1000 yard spool of coplymer lasts me roughly 3 years, the same as my braided line but for half the cost, keeping my old braided line under 60lb is sketchy after it being over 3 years. I think the "braid saving money" may be a marketing phrase to a certain extent, and the coplymer I use is pretty good izorlines, but you can buy a 700 yard spool of zebco omniflex for 2 dollars that works just fine having a 10lb strength for 12lb line with a clinch knot, and a diameter of 15lb high end monos.

All knots can break. Im good with the odds of it happening or not happening. For me, braid matters when it comes to sensitivity, managability, convinience, and the leader gives me confidence that i can break out of snags while adding a small amout of shock absorbsion and stealth. Ive had 10 lb northern roll up in the leader as i tryed bringing them to shore and still managed to pull them in. For me, its what works. Everyone has their preferences but i like braid to leader. On my really light lines i will go straight braid or if i am fishing dirty lakes from a boat.

[Unk]

3 hours ago, dodgeguy said:

So use straight braid. It's all I use most of the time.

May have to lose the leader. Just learning again (after years away from fishing) and was looking for an edge . 

3 hours ago, BrianMDTX said:

I have been using the Lefty Kreh leader knot since I first started using braid-to-leader two years ago. I won’t say I’ve caught DD bass on them, but I have caught bass over 5 lbs and I’ve had zero problems.

Thanks again. Will look the Lefty Kreh . If it's thinner or as thin and easier to tie , I'll give it a try.

[cyclops2]

I use 6# Braided line & the fish attack it as if they did not see the line at all.............. I KNOW they have very good eyesight compared to us. In bright sunlight I can see my line EASILY with the right angles.

 

If I use live minnows ?  They would bite with anchor chain on the hook.

[Unk]

3 hours ago, PressuredFishing said:

You have three options....

1. Shorten leader to 2-3 foot and cast with it outside the top guide

2. learn to tie the FG knot, however know that while all braid to leader guys make it sound romantic, its another weak spot in the line, it is another knot to tie, everyone is human and may get it wrong out on the water, and may result in loosing your biggest fish

3. switch to coplymer or florocarbon, or use straight braid if flipping,

 

P.S, anyone who says that the FG knot is just as reliable as one fishermans knot on straight mono and floro, they are either lying or not human because it is human to err on knots, expecially leader knots when in a rush, low light conditions, cold weather lowering fine motor skills, or just in general. but If they want to pay the extra buck for braid and fart around with a leader and schill  while bass are busting, go for it... more fish for me

Thanks. Sound advice but option #1 would be a no go .

8 minutes ago, cyclops2 said:

I use 6# Braided line & the fish attack it as if they did not see the line at all.............. I KNOW they have very good eyesight compared to us. In bright sunlight I can see my line EASILY with the right angles.

 

If I use live minnows ?  They would bite with anchor chain on the hook.

I've read others on the forum state LMB and SMB aren't line shy . 

[cyclops2]

When a fish is REALLY hungry ?  Caught a pike at 11 am. Had lunch. Came by his area at 3 pm.  BINGO again. Had the same 2 red dots in the same place.   Same thing with SMB. But they  just bump the lure the 2nd time.  Smarter  ?

[thediscochef]

I've been kind of grappling with this a bit lately. I use rods with small guides so knot noise is an issue but for me I've found myself breaking leaders off on casts 5x more since I moved to baitcasting reels. It's not every week that I snap something off in the air, but it's way more than it used to be. Part of that is me using heavier lures than I was. But I also think that a leader knot will weaken after touching guides enough times. I've used double uni, crazy Alberto, and kreh style knots. I had issues with the Alberto coming undone for some reason, the uni is noisy as heck but stays tied better. 

 

Honestly? After watching yet *another* jerkbait go sailing into the lake...I just respooled my jerkbait combo with 10# sufix seige. My lipless combo has 14# sufix elite. Imo the mono gives me fewer nests and less overall concern about the integrity of my line and therefore more focus. I will say that I find the braid much easier to handle when nested though. While the braid certainly can add a noticeable extra cast distance...I can still just about spool out a tatula CT with 14# elite and a 1/2oz red eye shad during a cast. At some point being able to set a hook from that distance becomes a concern. There's one place I go where the extra distance would be of use, but that would also put a huge felled and submerged oak between me and my lure. So maybe it's not so useful.

 

The place I think I will miss the 20# braid to 15# copolymer setup will be dragging treble hook lures through thick hydrilla. I may keep a combo set like that for that purpose. Otherwise I may not look back from mono.

[Unk]

3 hours ago, thediscochef said:

The place I think I will miss the 20# braid to 15# copolymer setup will be dragging treble hook lures through thick hydrilla. I may keep a combo set like that for that purpose. Otherwise I may not look back from mono.

Thanks . Only reason I was trying the braid to AbrazX combo is that , lately , if I'm not pulling through one of those oak trees then I'm bumping over rocks . Someday a really smart person will invent a line that has all the good qualities rolled into one . But that might take some of the fun out of the game

[BrianMDTX]

11 hours ago, Unk said:

Thanks again. Will look the Lefty Kreh . If it's thinner or as thin and easier to tie , I'll give it a try.

From what I’ve seen, there’s no easier braid-to-leader knot to tie than this one. 30 seconds tops from start to finish. 

[Bdnoble84]

11 hours ago, cyclops2 said:

When a fish is REALLY hungry ?  Caught a pike at 11 am. Had lunch. Came by his area at 3 pm.  BINGO again. Had the same 2 red dots in the same place.   Same thing with SMB. But they  just bump the lure the 2nd time.  Smarter  ?

Northern pike are absolutely insatiable (unfortunately somedays) i caught this pike 20 minites after he bit off another guy. Smallmouth certainly are aggressive. I caught one once 6 feet from my swimming lab. Dont know if they will be biting a lure with another lure hanging off it though.

[thediscochef]

3 hours ago, Unk said:

Thanks . Only reason I was trying the braid to AbrazX combo is that , lately , if I'm not pulling through one of those oak trees then I'm bumping over rocks . Someday a really smart person will invent a line that has all the good qualities rolled into one . But that might take some of the fun out of the game

Yeah I got a little creative with my line experiments last year, when I started using casting gear this year I started all over basically. Leaders on casting stuff have so far been only a source of irritation for me. It's not always the knot that fails, but it's usually within one inch of the knot. A few folks on this forum told me to use mono to solve the issue...only just now accepting it lol I do not like working with mono at all and the hooksets are different.

But of the stuff I used yesterday the mono did as well as anything and required the least amount of fuss.

[cyclops2]

I was having a 1 1/2" long Rapala floater fly off of the 6 # braided tied right to the split ring of the lure. I use very stiff rods. That means HIGH speed starting yank on the knot.  It is older line.  I carry 2 almost identical rod & lures . 1 is 6 # Braided. Other is 4 # Monofilament. The  4# Mono    ...NEVER .... unties from a lure.  The 6# can do it almost when ever I want to toss HARD enough. 

 

The cure to stop the braid.  Is to tie a simple 1/2 hitch on the end of the Braided line. As the line slides thru the knot the 1/2 hitch will jam at the knot & not slide & untie.

 

 

[Maggiesmaster]

Micro guides give me problems with braid to fluro  leaders. However, with standard guides I tie a 5-6 ft. fluro   or mono leader to 30 lb yellow braid with a Shin knot.  The yellow braid is easy to see, casts better (for me) than mono, gives me more feeling and seems to last longer.  The Shin knot is the smallest knot I’ve found to date. I don’t have enough guts to try the FG!

[Unk]

22 hours ago, Maggiesmaster said:

The Shin knot is the smallest knot I’ve found to date. I don’t have enough guts to try the FG!

Thanks . Looked up the Shin knot . Neat knot but it looks like it might be a little thicker than the FG because the leader is doubled . After a good bit of practice , my FG knots are getting a little smoother. The trick that helped me is finding out that , when they say to tension the braid , they don't mean banjo string tight . In fact , I have to vary the tension while looping the leader . 

[cyclops2]

I just realized that SMALL diameter line spools are a cause of poor casting.  Even in  SPINNING reels.   I bought 2 Ultra Light spinning reels. TOTAL waste of money. There is NO way that the 4# test Mono  line  can sit all winter.   Then be limp enough to cast like Braided 6#.  The tolerances are just to critical for the bail arms  to operate just like my large Mitchell 300 reels.

 

Size always matters.

[Unk]

10 minutes ago, cyclops2 said:

The tolerances are just to critical for the bail arms  to operate just like my large Mitchell 300 reels.

Just wondering if you're using the vintage 300s or the new model ? Back in the day I threw Mitchell 300s and Zebco Cardinals . It would be interesting to know how the new 300s compare .

 

 

[cyclops2]

My 300s are old made in France age.  Thief stole ONLY the 300 reel. Left the rod laying there.

They were made that well. Excellent for up to a big Bluefish in salt water.

 

There were 3 DIFFERENT versions sold by Cabela. The quality might be related to the weight of the 3 different 300s listed now for sale.

[Bird]

All my casters are straight 20# Power Pro braid, love the stuff.

 

All spinners are 15# Power Pro braid to an 8# Sniper flouro carbon leader the length of rod, using an Alberto knot.

Only time I've experienced any issue is when not paying attention and get the leader to long and knot finds it's way into the reel.

 

Hope you find a resolution.