On The Water Etiquette

[GaryH]

1 hour ago, A-Jay said:

Well Said.

And the more people I meet, the more I Love my dogs.

A-Jay

Amen

[gim]

9 hours ago, ironbjorn said:

Thank you for being reasonable about wake boats. I don't have or use one and never will, but I pleasure boat a lot, especially with my kids. We absolutely love going out on the pontoon and having a blast exploring, swimming, and relaxing. We love water. Sometimes that love of water is fishing, sometimes that love of water is pleasure boating. Too many fisherman think the water is there for them and them alone. As a fisherman I know what they're thinking, feeling, and the space they need, so we give it, and I don't really have any problems ever

There is really not comparison between a wake boat and a pontoon.  Pontoons are not designed to make massive waves.  They are slow moving pleasure party barges.  Wakeboats quite often don't realize that their waves cause serious damage.  Either that or they just don't care.  Not necessarily to other boats or people, but to shorelines.  On big lakes, its not as big of a problem.  But on smaller lakes, they erode the shoreline.  I have taken waves from wake boats right over the bow, gunnel, and stern of my boat many times.  Not once have I take on a wave from a pontoon.  Then there's the loud music they blare across the lake as they go for everyone to hear too.

 

There are new regulations coming down the pipe on these tsunami-producing machines.  There will be a minimum distance required from shore and other watercraft to use them and it is going to limit the number of lakes they can use, and where they can be used.  The only issue I foresee is enforcement, or lack thereof.

[MN Fisher]

11 minutes ago, gimruis said:

But on smaller lakes, they erode the shoreline.  I have taken waves from wave boats right over the bow, gunnel, and stern of my boat many times.  Not once have I take on a wave from a pontoon.

It's even worse when you're in a canoe. Can't tell you how many times I was almost swamped by a passing wake-boat when I was out. Never had that issue from a pontoon going by.

[gim]

11 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

It's even worse when you're in a canoe.

I could see that being catastrophic.  A kayak would have issues too.

[Choporoz]

2 minutes ago, gimruis said:

I could see that being catastrophic.  A kayak would have issues too.

Mostly highly annoying.   But....when you are in a kayak or canoe not too far off a seawall when a wake boat passes,  it's a whole 'nother level of frightening.   The comeback waves colliding with more incoming can be insane, partly because the effect is nearly impossible to predict and prepare for.

   I admit that my dislike for wakeboats went up considerably after I became an owner of shoreline on a recreational lake.  There is really not a good comparison between a ski boat and a wake boat.

[gim]

Just now, Choporoz said:

I admit that my dislike for wakeboats went up considerably after I became an owner of shoreline on a recreational lake. 

My Father's cousin said the same thing.  He had a small area of his lakefront property devoted to a sandy beach and over the years he's had to gradually replace all of it with boulders and rocks because of the waves from wake boats.  The shoreline erosion is noticeable.  The lake he lives on is primarily a recreational-use lake and most people that live there own a pontoon or a wake boat.  He has a pontoon and he can't stand the wake boats.

[DaubsNU1]

I watched the entire video. Yep, the video creator (Todd) was cut off, no doubt about that.

 

It's super easy to criticize and dissect the video and all interactions contained therein. I'm glad Todd included all the footage, and not just the cut-off and brief interaction.

 

Todd did a good job of handling this situation. He did get a few jabs in, and poked-the-bear when he could have just walked away.

[RDB]

3 minutes ago, DaubsNU1 said:

It's super easy to criticize and dissect the video and all interactions contained therein. I'm glad Todd included all the footage, and not just the cut-off and brief interaction.

 

Todd did a good job of handling this situation. He did get a few jabs in, and poked-the-bear when he could have just walked away.

I agree completely…Todd is a very nice and mild mannered guy but he was obviously annoyed.  If you knew him you would realize what a good guy he is.  I think part of it had to do with the guy refusing to even acknowledge his presence.  The other guy knew what he did…even the kids knew.

 

Somehow this thread has turned into some sort of rule book argument and I am frankly surprised by some of these comments on a fishing site.  Maybe it has to do with boaters v. non boaters.  This isn’t about official rule books but respect of fellow anglers.  Sometimes the other person doesn’t know and it’s a learning opportunity.  Sometimes they know and do it anyway.  Everyone can handle the situation the way they want…who am I to judge.  I usually choose to share my view as opposed to just leaving, hopefully in a tactful way.  Occasionally you run in to a jerk but the vast majority of the time there are no issues.  Even in the video case with Todd, chances are that guy will not cut him off again and will likely be more reluctant with others as well (at least for one day).  IMO, this is about common courtesy and respect…if you don’t ask for it and practice it, you likely won’t get it.  

[throttleplate]

2 hours ago, gimruis said:

There are new regulations coming down the pipe on these tsunami-producing machines.  There will be a minimum distance required from shore and other watercraft to use them and it is going to limit the number of lakes they can use, and where they can be used.  The only issue I foresee is enforcement, or lack thereof.

Now dont get on me as i didnt fund this study, i just grabbed this info from http://targetwalleye.com/flashy-vs-muted-jerkbaits-double-hooking-shiners-bass-still-easy-to-catch/

10. Marine industry-funded study finds no harm from wake boats.

When wake surfing at least 200′ from shore and in water that’s at least 10′ deep,

> Boat wakes dissipate quickly and have little impact on shorelines compared to wind-driven waves.

> The amount of sediment caused by shoreline erosion from boat traffic or wind driven waves is insignificant compared to the amount of sediment that flows in naturally through a lake’s watershed.

> Boat wakes can increase oxygenation, which is beneficial for aquatic species.

[islandbass]

4 hours ago, A-Jay said:

Well Said.

And the more people I meet, the more I Love my dogs.

A-Jay

Truth! We just added another dog to the family and he’s so loveable. 

[gim]

8 minutes ago, throttleplate said:

When wake surfing at least 200′

That is the primary issue I see.  Many of them do not do it that far from shore or another watercraft.  Some of the smaller lakes I frequent really are not big enough to always follow this.

 

The study I have seen is being done by the University of Minnesota and they have proposed making the distance 500 feet from a shoreline or another watercraft.  500 feet is quite a distance.  It would essentially ban it on many smaller sized lakes.

 

I did not mean to sidetrack this thread, so my apologies to the OP.  He originally started it based on bass fishing etiquette.

[Choporoz]

57 minutes ago, throttleplate said:

10. Marine industry-funded study finds no harm from wake boats. 

Lol.  New study funded by Marlboro finds that cigarettes actually cure cancer.

Even the New Hampshire Legislature report based conclusions on boat mfr 'studies'.      

  I don't have the science to back up my suppositions, but I'd theorize that wake boats passing within 150 foot of shoreline (almost?) always contribute more to erosion than if there weren't passing wake boats.

[MN Fisher]

4 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

Lol.  New study funded by Marlboro finds that cigarettes actual cure cancer.

Even the New Hampshire Legislature report based conclusions on boat mfr 'studies'. 

Ya - if a study is done by the industry itself - forget the 'grain of salt'...I'd need a whole mine.

[RDB]

2 hours ago, gimruis said:

I did not mean to sidetrack this thread, so my apologies to the OP.  He originally started it based on bass fishing etiquette.

No worries…the example was fishing but the overall theme (IMO) is about boating etiquette.  As a wake boat owner, I agree that they can be a nuisance at best and a danger at worst.  Wake surfing has exaggerated the problem due to the heavy weight added to the back of the boat to create huge waves.  Overall, from a wave size perspective, I don’t think wakeboarding typically creates a huge problem.  The wake is much smaller and the faster speed doesn’t allow it to build to the same degree as surfing.  As an owner, I wouldn’t be opposed to more formalized rules and restrictions, especially for surfing.  Outside of an outright ban, I don’t think it would impact how and where I drive the boat.  The biggest problem IMO is the drivers don’t respect others, often seek areas close to the shore in the pursuit of calmer water, and are frequently owned by people who are weekend enthusiasts who don’t have a healthy respect or care for on the water etiquette.

 

Edit:  One more point.  When surfing, you only create the large wake on one side of the boat.  One type of restriction might be the side of the wake relative to the shore and shore distance.  That would move some surfers away from the shore.  Those who remain will have to push the wake toward deeper water and only be allowed to go one direction.  That’s what we do if we are anywhere near the shore.

[Choporoz]

Appreciate the additional info and perspective, @RDB.  My bias comes from someone who never enjoyed boating unless there was fishing at the center of focus.  And, as a relatively new lakefront owner....and as someone who spends most of his time on the water fishing from a kayak....so admittedly not really a position of much understanding....good thread despite the divergences 

[RDB]

9 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

And, as a relatively new lakefront owner

Start paying attention to the side of the boat that has the big wake when you see surfers.  I’d be willing to bet that the vast majority of the time it will be the side nearest the shore.  If it is on the far side, see how much water disturbance there is to your property.  Here is a picture where you can see the difference on each side.

 

 

[BrianMDTX]

19 hours ago, TOXIC said:

Now per him, they motored from the other side of the cove if I understand it, and cut him off when they saw him heading to the spot they wanted to fish for a bedded bass.  If that is the case then they were in the wrong.  I just didn’t see it in the video.

I watched this on my phone, so maybe I missed something. What I thought I saw was that initially he went around a point and started fishing across/near where someone was in a yak, then decided to come back around the point and head for that one spot he really wanted to fish. And as his boat came around the point, he noticed the other boat crossing the cove to that point as well. Which, to me) looked like they were underway to that spot before he came into view around the point. At least that’s what I think I saw. If so, I don’t know how they are in the wrong. 

[RDB]

1 hour ago, BrianMDTX said:

I watched this on my phone, so maybe I missed something. What I thought I saw was that initially he went around a point and started fishing across/near where someone was in a yak, then decided to come back around the point and head for that one spot he really wanted to fish. And as his boat came around the point, he noticed the other boat crossing the cove to that point as well. Which, to me) looked like they were underway to that spot before he came into view around the point. At least that’s what I think I saw. If so, I don’t know how they are in the wrong. 

He was already working the bank headed toward the spot and was about a cast away when the guy finally got there.  He was literally a cast away when the other boat got to the spot.  The point is Todd was clearly working the bank and it was clear the direction Todd was going.  It doesn’t matter if the other boat initially saw him or not, he was coming from a completely different area.  He certainly saw him well before he got there and instead of respecting Todd, he stood on the trolling motor to get there first.  This is a classic case of what being cut off looks like.  The right thing to do would be have been to either go behind him or move on.  It might have been different if Todd was a long ways away or the other boat was working the same bank from the other direction.  That wasn’t the case and Todd was clearly cut off.  Sad thing is the high school kids knew but the “adult” didn’t.

 

Edit:  The other guy knew.  That’s why he wouldn’t make eye contact.

 

Edit 2:  It’s starting to become more clear why people cut others off…because it works and nobody says anything about it ?.

[throttleplate]

4 hours ago, Choporoz said:

Lol.  New study funded by Marlboro finds that cigarettes actually cure cancer.

LOL, govt does study, finds inflation low and dropping.

[J._Bricker]

 Sorry, but what I got out of this was a great video of self justification by our hero about his day on the water. Now it took him a week of mental wrestling to post the video, when he probably shouldn’t have posted it at all. Our “pro” and another adult male, who was probably his co-angler, are working around a blind point and as he clears the point another boat comes into view with two kids who I’m guessing are 14-15 yers old and an adult.
 Per the “pro” the other boat is roughly 50 yards away, has already turned to port and is headed into the same pocket our hero wants to fish. The “pro”says he can hit the boat with a cast and makes a cast that lands “10 feet” from the boat with two kids in it, not to mention his “half cast” that lands “10-15 feet away” from the other boat. Just as the “pro” points out the occupants of the other boat haven’t said anything, neither has our “pro”, who is supposed to be a “pro”. Maybe our “pro” could have acted like a pro, said something to the effect of “hey, there’s a good fish back there I found in practice, sure would have liked to have got it.” But he didn’t and just continues to creep up on the stern on the other boat, now with one of the juveniles on the trolling motor. The two kids just are trying to fish cause that’s what they’re on the water to do.

 And then “here it goes” as the “pro” from roughly 15 feet behind the other boats stern makes a cast past their bow. Our “pro” starts to mumble out loud when the adult in the other boat asks if he has something to say at which time differing thoughts were shared.

 In my opinion, a real pro would have gone around the other boat with the kids knowing he can make hay on a lake that’s getting a lot of fishing pressure. If he can’t, well that’s fishing. I’m sure our hero is probably a really nice guy, but in this instance I think the pressure of the tournament clouded his judgment. I don’t think there’s any justification to cast at a boat with kids in it in an effort to intimidate, and definitely not 33.25 minutes of video on YouTube isn’t gonna work…

 

[RDB]

3 minutes ago, J._Bricker said:

 Sorry, but what I got out of this was a great video of self justification by our hero about his day on the water. Now it took him a week of mental wrestling to post the video, when he probably shouldn’t have posted it at all. Our hero and another adult male, who was probably his co-angler, are working around a blind point and as he clears the point another boat comes into view with two kids who I’m guessing are 14-15 yers old and an adult.
 Per our hero, the other boat is roughly 50 yards away, has already turned to port and is headed into the same pocket our hero wants to fish. Our hero says he can hit the boat with a cast and makes a cast that lands “10 feet” from the boat with two kids in it, not to mention his “half cast” that lands “10-15 feet away” from the other boat. Just as our hero points out the occupants of the other boat haven’t said anything, neither has our hero, who is supposed to be a “pro”. Maybe our hero could have acted like a pro, said something to the effect of “hey, there’s a good fish back there I found in practice, sure would have liked to have got it.” But he didn’t and just continues to creep up on the stern on the other boat, now with one of the juveniles on the trolling motor. The two kids just are trying to fish cause that’s what they’re on the water to do.

 And then “here it goes” as our hero from roughly 15 feet behind the other boats stern makes a cast past their bow. Our hero starts to mumble out loud when the adult in the other boat asks if he has something to say at which time differing thoughts were shared.

 In my opinion, a real pro would have gone around the other boat with the kids knowing he can make hay on a lake that’s getting a lot of fishing pressure. If he can’t, well that’s fishing. I’m sure our hero is probably a really nice guy, but in this instance I think the pressure of the tournament clouded his judgment. I don’t think there’s any justification to cast at a boat with kids in an effort to intimidate, and definitely 33.25 minutes of video on YouTube isn’t gonna work…

 

Lol…the sarcasm is dripping…it seems like this really got you worked up.  If you watch, he didn’t cast at the boat, he cast at an angle toward the bank in front of the boat.  Also to your point, he did go around him.  As far as creeping up, he never touched his trolling motor…it was all a drift.  Everyone has an opinion based on how they handle themselves on the water.  As far as hero, I think that may be your words as I don’t remember anyone else saying he is a hero.  IMO, this is a classic case of what getting cut off looks whether it’s Todd or you.  It’s fine to judge the handling of the situation however you want.  Based on how angry this video seems to have made you, my guess is you may have had a few lack of composure moments on the water as well ?. 

[RDB]

49 minutes ago, J._Bricker said:

 Sorry, but what I got out of this was a great video of self justification by our hero about his day on the water. Now it took him a week of mental wrestling to post the video, when he probably shouldn’t have posted it at all. Our hero and another adult male, who was probably his co-angler, are working around a blind point and as he clears the point another boat comes into view with two kids who I’m guessing are 14-15 yers old and an adult.
 Per our hero, the other boat is roughly 50 yards away, has already turned to port and is headed into the same pocket our hero wants to fish. Our hero says he can hit the boat with a cast and makes a cast that lands “10 feet” from the boat with two kids in it, not to mention his “half cast” that lands “10-15 feet away” from the other boat. Just as our hero points out the occupants of the other boat haven’t said anything, neither has our hero, who is supposed to be a “pro”. Maybe our hero could have acted like a pro, said something to the effect of “hey, there’s a good fish back there I found in practice, sure would have liked to have got it.” But he didn’t and just continues to creep up on the stern on the other boat, now with one of the juveniles on the trolling motor. The two kids just are trying to fish cause that’s what they’re on the water to do.

 And then “here it goes” as our hero from roughly 15 feet behind the other boats stern makes a cast past their bow. Our hero starts to mumble out loud when the adult in the other boat asks if he has something to say at which time differing thoughts were shared.

 In my opinion, a real pro would have gone around the other boat with the kids knowing he can make hay on a lake that’s getting a lot of fishing pressure. If he can’t, well that’s fishing. I’m sure our hero is probably a really nice guy, but in this instance I think the pressure of the tournament clouded his judgment. I don’t think there’s any justification to cast at a boat with kids in an effort to intimidate, and definitely 33.25 minutes of video on YouTube isn’t gonna work…

 

 

Edit:  Ironically the other adult is using a platform which is against THSBA rules (they were fishing a high school tournament).  My hope is they let it go but I believe they are trying to determine which team it was.  Whoever the other adult is, he doesn’t seem to have a lot of respect for rules and boundaries.  Kind of makes the name calling make more sense.

[J._Bricker]

2 minutes ago, RDB said:

Lol…the sarcasm is dripping…it seems like this really got you worked up.  If you watch, he didn’t cast at the boat, he cast at an angle toward the bank in front of the boat.  Also to your point, he did go around him.  As far as creeping up, he never touched his trolling motor…it was all a drift.  Everyone has an opinion based on how they handle themselves on the water.  As far as hero, I think that may be your words as I don’t remember anyone else saying he is a hero.  IMO, this is a classic case of what getting cut off looks whether it’s Todd or you.  It’s fine to judge the handling of the situation however you want.  Based on how angry this video seems to have made you, my guess is you may have had a few lack of composure moments on the water as well ?. 

Yes, I was sarcastic to make a point. I did edit my original post but you were extremely quick in your response. I just can’t see how anyone can justify casting at a boat with kids in it as okay. Everything thing else is just minutia to distract what took place in the exchange between boats. If you are a “pro”, then act like one…

[RDB]

5 minutes ago, J._Bricker said:

Yes, I was sarcastic to make a point. I did edit my original post but you were extremely quick in your response. I just can’t see how anyone can justify casting at a boat with kids in it as okay. Everything thing else is just minutia to distract what took place in the exchange between boats. If you are a “pro”, then act like one…

I understand how some may disagree with the handling of the situation, we all handle things differently.  As far as the question of being cut off, IMO this is text book.  The whole high school bass fishing thing is a big topic of discussion with a lot of Texas anglers.  The groups have gotten huge and they will let almost anyone captain.  Visit Texas Fishing Forum and you will see a long thread discussing.  The main beef with most is not with the kids but with the boat captains.  Even some of the long time captains say that most don’t know basic on the water etiquette and get very defensive when coached.  Just like almost everything involving kids and sports, it’s usually the parents that create the problems.

[J._Bricker]

2 minutes ago, RDB said:

I understand how some may disagree with the handling of the situation, we all handle things differently.  As far as the question of being cut off, IMO this is text book.  The whole high school bass fishing thing is a big topic of discussion with a lot of Texas anglers.  The groups have gotten huge and they will let almost anyone captain.  Visit Texas Fishing Forum and you will see a long thread discussing.  The main beef with most is not with the kids but with the boat captains.  Even some of the long time captains say that most don’t know basic on the water etiquette and get very defensive when coached.  Just like almost everything involving kids and sports, it’s usually the parents that create the problems.

Very true Rick, but this is a “pro” that really didn’t act the part in this instance. We can agree that the pro in question is an accomplished angler. After all he did pick up a fourth place check in his respective derby. The other boat was high school kids with an adult boat captain, which collectively may or may not know the unwritten rules of tournament etiquette. But a “pro” should understand this and give the inexperienced anglers a little slack and show some class. Unfortunately, this just didn’t happen in the video….