Abu Ambassadeur Models?

[Yuddzy]

Currently considering picking up an ambassadeur reel, albeit not a new one. There's so many models and years of them out there, and I'm not entirely sure as to which ones are "good." (search turned up some useful info, but I feel that a new thread will be more productive) 

 

First Question: Which years were better, if any? I've read that pre-2000s were higher quality, albeit I'm not entirely sure on this. 

 

Second Question: What's the difference between the models? 5000, 5000c, 5500d, 5600al, 4000c Tournament Choice, 5000 Five Star, 5500 C3, etc.... 

 

Thank you, as always

[Captain Phil]

Ambassador round reels are heavy compared to modern reels. That said, they were the standard bass reel for a very long time.  Early reels were 3/1.  The cheapest were the red reels.  The black reels were somewhat nicer.  Back in the day we bought "speed gears" to increase the ratio.  When the gray "High Speed" 5/1 5500 and 6500 reels came out, they were the ultimate Ambassador reel.  I still have one that I used to catch an unverified world record Pacific sailfish on 8 pound mono (see below).  Pre 2000 Ambassador reels are as tough as them come.  They are very simple to disassemble and clean.  The difference in the models has to do with the number of bearings, spool width and retrieve ratio.  Assuming you are bass fishing, the best of these reels was a pre 2000 5500C.   Later reels were cheapened up so much that I wouldn't own one. You may have to pay up for a nice early model 5500C as they do have some collector value.

 

 

[bulldog1935]

I would stick with Ultracast spool models, 4500 C3 and newer. 

There are so many good parts made for them

I wouldn't buy into post-'95 is junk - the reel just above began with a NOS '01, raced out for braid, 100% backlash-proof casting 3 g to an ounce (I was targeting 1/2 oz). 

You can buy stainless steel drives, BB low-inertia level-wind parts, mag brakes, great spool bearings. You can get new parts on E-Replacement Parts. 

You can turn them into little rocketships. 

 

4500/4600, 5500/5600, 6500 are all the same diameter and different spool widths. 

 

(this is a NLW surf reel that will cast a half-ounce to the proverbial 100 yds on 8' rod)

[Yuddzy]

1 hour ago, bulldog1935 said:

I would stick with Ultracast spool models, 4500 C3 and newer. 

There are so many good parts made for them

 

1 hour ago, bulldog1935 said:

You can buy stainless steel drives, BB low-inertia level-wind parts, mag brakes, great spool bearings. You can get new parts on E-Replacement Parts. 

This is part of what has drawn me to the ambassadeurs in general: availability of parts. It's pretty cool that the more recent models have that upgrade potential for the future as well, I can see myself getting into that. 

 

I considered old Bantams (80s) awhile back, but knowing you're SOL if a part breaks isn't something I want to worry about when I'm using a reel. 

[redmeansdistortion]

Another redeeming quality of the Ambassadeur, every Ultracast model has interchangeable parts.  It doesn't matter if it was made in 1992 or 2022, things like frames, side plates, spools, brakes, clutch assemblies, and most every other part is cross compatible.  There have been many variants made in a dizzying array of colors and configurations.  Some came with a mag brake, some with a 6 pin brake, some with a 2 pin, some with dual spool tension knobs, some had stainless gears, you name it.  When I look at an Ambassadeur, I see a clean slate that I can make exactly how I want.

[Smalliefan2]

I went from 4500C to 4600C (thumb bar). Fished with them for forty or so years. Built like a tank, parts easy to find, routine maintenance is easy. They are "heavy" compared to the newest reels, but durability, reliability are second to none.

[Yuddzy]

54 minutes ago, redmeansdistortion said:

Another redeeming quality of the Ambassadeur, every Ultracast model has interchangeable parts.  It doesn't matter if it was made in 1992 or 2022, things like frames, side plates, spools, brakes, clutch assemblies, and most every other part is cross compatible.  There have been many variants made in a dizzying array of colors and configurations.  Some came with a mag brake, some with a 6 pin brake, some with a 2 pin, some with dual spool tension knobs, some had stainless gears, you name it.  When I look at an Ambassadeur, I see a clean slate that I can make exactly how I want.

I've found clean Ultracasts on eBay, averaging around $60 shipped. Is that about inline with what they're worth? eBay prices tend to be inflated a bit, so I don't refer to the completed transactions as much. 

[redmeansdistortion]

18 minutes ago, Yuddzy said:

I've found clean Ultracasts on eBay, averaging around $60 shipped. Is that about inline with what they're worth? eBay prices tend to be inflated a bit, so I don't refer to the completed transactions as much. 

Sounds about right.  You may want to check Facebook Marketplace as well, seen lots for great asking prices.  

[Yuddzy]

I wound up finding an Ambassadeur 4600 C3, $60 to the door. The only wear I could find on the entire thing was a slight fade to "Ambassadeur" written on one of the plastic pieces. (All other writing was intact, which usually seems to fade quickly) 

Should just need a clean up and service, maybe a bit of polishing to go beyond factory finish even. ?

[bulldog1935]

You'll have fun with that - easy to replace the drag washers when you get inside to clean and lube. 

You can find schematics both on Abu Garcia website and E-Replacement Parts website. 

You can probably even replace the faded Ambassadeur sticker. 

Two places I know that sell the stickers in Japan, Haneda Craft and Hedgehog Studio.  Of course either one should be a significant parts order to cover shipping cost - and you need a broker like noppin.com or ZenMarket to buy direct from Haneda Craft (Hedgehog sells some Haneda Craft parts). 

My 4600C began looking like this, 6.3-geared Royal Express II, and it was a happy ebay snag for $90, my BIN offer accepted by a level-headed estate hunter: 

 

[Yuddzy]

My 4600C3 has arrived. It is very gummy and cruddy, definitely needs a cleaning and lubrication. There's a stiff point in the handle rotation when the level wind reaches either end of the spool. Currently trying to find a schematic, but there is several on the Abu Site for them. 

 

Foot Number is 990809/27

Here's what I believe to be the correct one, just glancing quickly. Am I correct? It looks very manageable. 

[bulldog1935]

that's going to be correct - look at it all as being modular. 

Take photos to refer to later. 

Take the handle off first,  end caps, side plates, spool. 

The LW takes a little coordination to put back in the frame, but it all makes sense. 

The brake-plate drive assembly is a jewel. 

This a little different, 5500C3, aftermarket stainless ball-bearing drive, but again, the mechanism is simple and easy to work with - these parts would load right onto your brake plate. 

The only part that is different is the link to the push-button. 

This completed drive would go right onto your frame with my side plate. 

 

ps @Yuddzy - when you're removing the C-clip ("E-clip") from the main shaft, it takes the tiniest jeweler's screwdriver, and do it in a shoebox, or with you finger solid over it, so it won't fly across the room. 

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, Yuddzy said:

My 4600C3 has arrived. It is very gummy and cruddy, definitely needs a cleaning and lubrication. There's a stiff point in the handle rotation when the level wind reaches either end of the spool. Currently trying to find a schematic, but there is several on the Abu Site for them. 

 

Foot Number is 990809/27

Here's what I believe to be the correct one, just glancing quickly. Am I correct? It looks very manageable. 

Love the 4600c3 , I think I’ve currently got 3 of them in use 

[Yuddzy]

@bulldog1935

Thanks for that, I'll probably wind up holding that side in a small plastic grocery bag while I pop it off so I don't lose it.

 

I learned my lesson about removing spring loaded clips when I serviced the drag stack on a Sedona spinning reel.

D:<

[crypt]

gotta love the round reels......I have 8.......4600's and pro max and black max 1600's

[Yuddzy]

I wouldn't need to for any purpose other than cleaning, but I'm lead to believe the thumb bar free spool button is not removable based on how it's around a seemingly unremovable part of the frame? If that's correct, what would happen if you broke the thumb bar or needed to replace it due to age? (It's plastic, so eventually it'll crack/age poorly I imagine)

 

[bulldog1935]

The thumb bar on the x600 reels is part of the frame, and sold with the frame. 

It's not an outrageous part - I bought a pretty NOS one recently from UK for $20. 

Probably a tough color frame to sell, but it looks pretty good on my black cherry. 

Kind of a long story, the plastic foot from the Royal Express II frame kept spitting out of my application reel seat.  Funny thing, the metal-foot frame was just as light as the plastic-foot frame. 

[Yuddzy]

Interesting. I would've thought there would be a clever replacement part for the thumb bar. Some sort of sheet metal that can wrap around the bar on the frame. 

 

I have it all apart now, but it needs a bath pretty bad. So much grease and oil inside this thing. I've sorted out parts that can't receive much of any treatment and will need hand cleaning. For example, the side plate that has the thumb screws contains both a rubber o-ring and the anti-reverse bearing. Soaking in degreaser would probably mess up the o-ring, and washing with dawn/water would likely mess up the bearing? 

[Nelson Delaney]

18 minutes ago, Yuddzy said:

Interesting. I would've thought there would be a clever replacement part for the thumb bar. Some sort of sheet metal that can wrap around the bar on the frame. 

 

I have it all apart now, but it needs a bath pretty bad. So much grease and oil inside this thing. I've sorted out parts that can't receive much of any treatment and will need hand cleaning. For example, the side plate that has the thumb screws contains both a rubber o-ring and the anti-reverse bearing. Soaking in degreaser would probably mess up the o-ring, and washing with dawn/water would likely mess up the bearing? 

the thumb bar can be replaced.  However i have not seen one sold separately from the frame.   Also the o-ring comes off the side plate & is readily available anywhere parts are sold.   

[bulldog1935]

You can take the o-rings out with a plastic toothpick.  If you're buying parts from E-replacement parts, include axle clip (maybe a spare) and spool shims. 

Replacing the o-rings is a great idea - when they get old and flat, the spool caps are too easy to turn. 

I would count on new spool bearings - common size and an easy upgrade, 1034, 3 x10 x 4 mm. 

The best degreaser is vinegar bath, 1:3 white vinegar in warm water for up to 3 hours. 

Chase it with a toothbrush, and follow by a soap bath and rinse. 

https://fiberglassflyrodders.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1385

[TnRiver46]

2 hours ago, Yuddzy said:

I wouldn't need to for any purpose other than cleaning, but I'm lead to believe the thumb bar free spool button is not removable based on how it's around a seemingly unremovable part of the frame? If that's correct, what would happen if you broke the thumb bar or needed to replace it due to age? (It's plastic, so eventually it'll crack/age poorly I imagine)

 

I broke a thumbcast button on a 4600 and still haven’t fixed it because I would have to get a whole new frame 

[Yuddzy]

Getting parts ready for cleaning now. I'm imagining this was not a factory lube job, given that the anti-reverse bearing was caked in grease. After that, let the parts dry overnight and then back together they go.  

 

I think this will be a great reel, especially since there's some large pike and musky on the waters near me. It'll be nice having a portable winch for those fellas. 

 

Special thanks to Bulldog1935 for answering all my questions along the way and everyone else for chipping in. 

 

I'll update with a picture of the reel reassembled eventually here. 

[bulldog1935]

@Yuddzy While you have it down, take your time to polish all the LW bushings - both the insides of the bushing holes, and the shafts that fit inside them.  This includes the idler gear in the palm side plate.  One noteworthy upgrade part here is Mike's Reel Repair zirconia pawl. 

Remember light oil when you put the bushings back together.  I found a really good low viscosity grease for the worm gear and pawl (MTCW you don't want, but Hot Sauce defamed on this forum is another good choice here) - and of course don't grease anything heavily - I use a sable art brush to apply thin grease.  It's really hard to describe how little grease you need on the pawl for it to easily make the turn against the worm gear ends.  Mike's zirconia pawl I mentioned has an oil reservoir for inside the pawl cap. 

You want a higher viscosity grease on the drive gears. 

General rule is oil for spindles, and grease for contact stress. 

10 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

I broke a thumbcast button on a 4600 and still haven’t fixed it because I would have to get a whole new frame 

Good thing you don't ride a bike - it would be lawn furniture.   My '74 Raleigh from college on its 4th rebuild. 

I'll admit to taking perverse satisfaction out-pedaling younger USAF officers on carbon bikes in Sunday-morning Alamodome sprints. 

[TnRiver46]

4 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

@Yuddzy While you have it down, take your time to polish all the LW bushings - both the insides of the bushing holes, and the shafts that fit inside them.  This includes the idler gear in the palm side plate.  One noteworthy upgrade part here is Mike's Reel Repair zirconia pawl. 

Remember light oil when you put the bushings back together.  I found a really good low viscosity grease for the worm gear and pawl (MTCW you don't want, but Hot Sauce defamed on this forum is another good choice here) - and of course don't grease anything heavily - I use a sable art brush to apply thin grease.  It's really hard to describe how little grease you need on the pawl for it to easily make the turn against the worm gear ends.  Mike's zirconia pawl I mentioned has an oil reservoir for inside the pawl cap. 

You want a higher viscosity grease on the drive gears. 

General rule is oil for spindles, and grease for contact stress. 

Good thing you don't ride a bike - it would be lawn furniture.   My '74 Raleigh from college on its 4th rebuild. 

I'll admit to taking perverse satisfaction out-pedaling younger USAF officers on carbon bikes in Sunday-morning Alamodome sprints. 

My wife has a bike in our shed that hasn’t been ridden in years haha. I believe it’s about to be donated

[WRB]

Pre 2000 Abu Ambassaduer were Swiss made reels. After that time period Abu started having parts made in China, followed by being assembled in China.

The issue with anything made in China is counterfeit metals and parts, no traceability.

My favorite Abu reel was 2500C sweet reel. The 4500C was my work horse reel from the late 60’s until early 90’s about 35 years.

I can’t see using the Abu Ambassadeur reel today beyond nostalgia reasons or a hobby to customize these reels.

The older reels don’t have instant anti reverse, the handle moves backwards until a dog locks. The reel are very basic and easy to tune and clean, but heavy compared to today’s casting reels.

The Shimano round reels like Cardiff A are priced around $100 and a far superior reel out of the box imo.

Tom