Canoe keeps turning backwards

[Kellyvan]

When we and my boyfriend go canoeing our canoe turns backwards very often, and we’re unsure why. I am a newbie and my boyfriend has canoed many times but is not an expert. We’re wondering if it is a technique issue, or if it could be to do with our weight difference, him sitting in the back and weighing ~3 times my weight. Any thoughts?

[PaulVE64]

Ive done alot of canoeing and while i dont quite understand what "turning backwards" is i assume the canoe isnt moving in a straight line.

 

Whoever is in the back of the canoe doesnt know what theyre doing. 

[CountryboyinDC]

3x your weight is going to make trimming the canoe, which makes both tracking (going straight) and and efficiency, very difficult.  So you can move to get the ballast straight by moving the seating positions around if possible (stern paddler forward will be most helpful with the weights described) or with weight.  

 

As @PaulVE64 said, you and your boyfriend might benefit from a bit of paddling instruction.  The J stroke and stern pry for the stern paddler are essential for the canoe not becoming a 'divorce boat' for you, as they have been known by so many couples.

[VolFan]

Are you in a river or on a lake(flat water)?

[Deleted account]

If you are saying the canoe turns or doesn't track as desired when paddled, that's on the person in the rear, he/she paddles and tills. It is up to them to keep the canoe straight (or going in the desired direction) by either paddling more or less, switching side paddled, or using the paddle as a tiller. If you are saying the canoe spins while at rest, yeah, they do that.

[SmallPondGuy]

This was happening to me when I first started canoeing. Look up “J-stroke”. There’s a little more technique to paddling in a canoe than a kayak. 

[TnRiver46]

The wind can carry the front more easily if it’s not level. If he’s 3x your weight, the nose of the boat is probably sticking up out of the water and catching wind. I would somehow try to even the weight out, a level boat paddles much more easily. Maybe put all the gear , cooler, and anchor up near where you sit 

[michaelb]

The simple answer is to put you in the back yelling at him up front to paddle harder. 

[cyclops2]

There is no simple answer for the canoe problem.  The difference in body weights is the obvious problem.  Add ANY winds ?  From different directions ?     

 

I would buy 2 kayaks.  So both of you can control your boat very simply.  Works every time. 

 

Enjoy.

 

[desmobob]

Find yourself a copy of Bill Mason's book, "Path of the Paddle".  It's the ultimate guide to canoeing and paddling.  

[BassNJake]

On 4/24/2022 at 7:26 AM, Deleted account said:

by either paddling more or less, switching side paddled, or using the paddle as a tiller.

Once the weight is more evenly distributed, IMO this is the answer.

 

[padlin]

 Same happens to pretty much anyone that has such a large weight differential. My wife weighs half of me and we get it to some extent. The rear paddler can keep it straight/er if there is little or no wind. I usually have to tell my wife which side to paddle on, any breeze at all and she pretty much has to stay on the down wind side while I swap back and forth as needed.

 I had thought about adding sand bags or some such to the front, but it's really not practical. We just make due.

 

In your case a canoe may just not work.

 

My SIL @ 250 took out his 7 year old son last summer and gave up pretty quick.

 

[gim]

21 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

If he’s 3x your weight, the nose of the boat is probably sticking up out of the water and catching wind. I would somehow try to even the weight out, a level boat paddles much more easily. Maybe put all the gear , cooler, and anchor up near where you sit

That was my initial thought as well, to even out the weight. The problem is that canoes are not really designed to handle a lot of weight though either, so simply adding a bunch of stuff up front may not be a safe solution. Check the max weight capacity before just “loading up.” Either that or reduce the weight in back.

[MN Fisher]

41 minutes ago, gimruis said:

The problem is that canoes are not really designed to handle a lot of weight though either,

A lot of that depends on the canoe. My old Scout SS (also sold as the F&S Scout) is rated to 765lbs - only 100lbs less than my Alumacraft F-9.

[PaulVE64]

A 15 ft daytripping canoe can carry a thousand pounds with 6" of freeboard.

 

It could be uneven load that is tge trouble but i confess to some serious doubts. If an experienced paddler can solo a 17ft expedition canoe in a decent breeze without any load and track fairly straight then anyone can use a j stroke successfully if the conditions arent extreme.

Just my opinion

[TnRiver46]

4 hours ago, PaulVE64 said:

A 15 ft daytripping canoe can carry a thousand pounds with 6" of freeboard.

 

It could be uneven load that is tge trouble but i confess to some serious doubts. If an experienced paddler can solo a 17ft expedition canoe in a decent breeze without any load and track fairly straight then anyone can use a j stroke successfully if the conditions arent extreme.

Just my opinion

I paddle a canoe solo all the time, but you sure can’t do it if you sit in the back. (Without counterbalancing with gear).  I tried that before, the wind slammed me onto dry land and I couldn’t stop it. I pondered on it for a while and remembered someone telling me to sit in the front seat and paddle the boat “backwards” . It worked great and I was able to get back to the truck, I’ve used the front seat for solo paddling ever since. When you’re in the back solo, the front of the boat is too high above the water and catches even a slight breeze and will spin you around 

[PaulVE64]

I use the front seat too.

[desmobob]

I solo paddle my 17'6" Bell Northwind tandem by kneeling just behind the thwart and heeling the boat to port.  (This is even more advantageous than paddling stern-first and sitting in what used to be the bow seat. The Northwind has an asymmetrical hull.)  The seat in my Bell Magic 16' solo canoe is just aft of center.  That's where you generally want the weight to be for good paddling.

[michaelb]

As hinted at above by the canoe experts, there are three factors at play here: trim, wind, and skill.

 

Trim refers to the weight balance of the boat, front to back. You want that even, or as even as possible. Can you paddle your canoe backwards, so he in the back on the front seat and you in the front on the back seat? that moves his weight in and your weight out. Adding weight to the boat may help too.

 

When there is wind, the canoe will spin so the heavy end is upwind. This is called weathercocking or weathervaning (if balanced trim, the boat still turns into the wind). This is a constant battle in any canoe and one main reason to balance the trim. If you were paddling into a strong headwind, you may actually want him in front and you in the back, since then your weight in balance counteracts that effect (or paddling as you are when running with the wind).

 

For skill, the boat (canoe or kayak) turns away from the side of the paddle stroke. I assume by spinning to the rear, you are spinning to your paddle side and away from his. A major reason this happens is because the positions are not balanced by definition: the rear paddler is stronger and the front paddler weaker, by where they sit in the boat. One way to fix what you are seeing is for the front paddler to paddle harder, or for the rear paddler to skip a stroke every other stroke. Or for the rear paddler to know how to correct for this effect, using a j stroke or a stern rudder.

[Kellyvan]

Thanks everyone for your input. To give a bit more info we are in a river and by “turning backwards” I mean doing a 180°. We are riding in a Old Town discovery 169. We are going to try rotating the canoe so we go down “backwards” to redistribute the weight a bit. 
 

We’ll make sure to watch some more instructional videos as well. ?

[michaelb]

The disco is a real nice boat. And if you can fit it could be paddled backwards. But i would be more likely to do that on flat water when you need to cover distance. Is there moving water on the river ie current? Moving water and eddies can be very deceptive. 

 

with the weight difference and river current he may losing control of the front of the boat and once it starts coming around it is hard to stop. If there is current you may need to help. So “draw” to pull the boat your side and to “pry” to push it away. Plus he does need to rudder to hold the boat in line. 

[Way2slow]

My canoe is an old 17' Gruman aluminum.  If the weight balance is too far off, it constantly wants to turn around on you.  One thing I do that helps counteract is to sit backwards in it.  It's not the most comfortable way but it works.  The front seat is closer to the middle so if you turn around and use the front seat for the back seat, that goes a long way toward balancing the weight in the boat.  Not super comfortable but works.

[Deephaven]

I'd focus on paddling dexterity.  I have a Eugene Jensen 18'6" canoe that has no keel whatsoever.  I have zero problems keeping it straight even with just my 10 year old in the front.  I've paddled thousands of miles though so my technique is solid.  I'd suggest having you and your paddler only paddle each one side.  Being in the back pick your strong side and don't switch.  Feel what the boat does and counter act it and if it over rotates use your paddle as a rudder at the end of each stroke.  It is really hard to learn if you aren't paddling at a consistent pace and always the same.  Beginners want to constantly switch which will greatly slow your learning curve.  Paddle on one side until you are physically unable to continue on that side and then switch.

[Way2slow]

Totally agree, if you can't paddle from one side of the boat, without have to cross over, then you need to learn how to paddle.  No telling how many miles I've paddle a boat and never switch sides.  Wouldn't want to try it now, but I used to sit in the bottom with my legs under a cross brace and could barrel roll a canoe with a paddle just like in a kayak.  I was referring to when easing along fishing, even a small breeze will make it want to swing around if there is not weight in the front.  Mine is a wider, flat bottom cargo canoe, so it really has nothing to stabilize it. 

Of course now, you probably couldn't pay me to get into a canoe it's been so long since I've used it.  Primarily just keep it around and a keep sake from those "good old days".

 

[Deephaven]

Can look at it the other way.  In a solo boat I can usually do a 180 with 2-3 paddle strokes.  This also means every 2-3 I could correct the wrong rotation.  Current and wind of course can make it more, but nonetheless it gives an idea of the dexterity of paddling